WalkingWolf
Regular Member
As I saw no stones tossed, it is only reasonable to know what he is whimpering about.
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Need some help: wife opposes me carrying
- Thread starter DaveT319
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As I saw no stones tossed, it is only reasonable to know what he is whimpering about.
wrearick
Regular Member
The light hearted jabs of post 5 and 12 taken in good humor (not sure what mcbeth said I have him on ignore) the following fall under the category of stones in my opinion
post 13
If I was the OP's spouse, after reading his posts, I would not want him carrying a handgun either.
1. He mentions he'd be OK with leaving it in the car. Unattended gun!?
2. He mentions he'd insert himself into the situation to save someone else. Saving strangers!?
I think the OP should be asking himself why he wants to carry, and to align his priorities. He should NOT be doing things he wouldn't do unarmed.
FWIW.
post 16
the head of the household makes the final decision and it clearly isnt you.
post 40
Definitely well said. Put the big boy holster on and carry wherever you want, whenever you want. It's your right.
First time I see the OP start to respond negatively is in Post 41 responding to the comments in post 13 and 16 listed above....
13- 2. Yes, I WOULD come to the aid of someone else. That's the kind of person I am. Hell, I have even come to the aid of cops to help them make an arrest when the suspect was resisting. So if I were someplace where a random mass-shooting happened, I would very likely try to help save innocent lives. I guess you're the kind of person who would just pull out your phone and record it for YouTube...
16- First of all, there is no "head of the household" here. We are equals. I hate this idea that the man should be "the man" and what he says goes. That's so arcane a concept that I can hardly wrap my head around it.
he also commented on other posts that took issue with his point of view but were not attacking. His responses (at least to me) appeared to show a willingness to listen to contrary points of view and respond in a mature manner
- But I don't want to give her that kind of ultimatum. I'd like her to accept it, but not completely reluctantly. I'm just trying to figure out how to get her there.
- You think I really meant something like that? I was talking about in a locked glove compartment, or in the trunk. You think any truly responsible gun owner would be so stupid as to leave a gun on their dash?!
- Yeah, this is a tough one. Her objections don't seem to be so much about ME carrying as much as carrying in general (I think she sees it as being paranoid). AND she doesn't much like having the gun in the house in the first place. She accepted my hunting rifle because it served a specific purpose, and when not in use it is locked up. But with a handgun, she just seems to think it's unnecessary.
and his final comment in that post showing he is looking for a "viable" solution
- Yes, but I'd rather not do it at the expense of my marriage. It's just trying to figure out how to get her to accept it without her giving ME an ultimatum.
Would the going off the deep end be his shock at the way his comment about leaving a gun in the car had been misconstrued? (notalawyer also found the objection raised to be far fetched). Must have been because right after that the ridicule started pouring in on the "quality" of his marriage and that he needed marriage counseling and how either his wife was a control fiend or he had no backbone and didn't deserve any help with his current situation (not an exact quote but the tenor and flavor of the comments).
wrearick
Regular Member
See my previous post for a less than complete list. My purpose in raising this issue is not to call anyone person on the carpet and I intentionally left off names. I am expressing my disappointment with the general climate that appears to be growing here on this forum (yes, I know I can leave, thanks) It is not healthy for the frank discussion of gun related issues and I am asking if we can not be "a little" more respectful in how we talk to each other. We are all supposedly on the same side, so why make folks feel alienated when they ask a question. This is not the only thread this has happened in. When folks ask for help, lets try and be helpful. If we don't like them because they personally put up with things we wouldn't do we have to stab them?
wrearick
Regular Member
I will be away from the computer for the next 8 hours at least. Leaving job #1 and heading to job #2 and today is the wife's birthday, so please don't construe my lack of replies over the next couple of hours as me running away or putting my tail between my legs - just trying to keep folks from making embarrasing "assumptions" while I am off line. :lol:
DocWalker
Regular Member
From OP Post #41
"First of all, there is no "head of the household" here. We are equals. I hate this idea that the man should be "the man" and what he says goes. That's so arcane a concept that I can hardly wrap my head around it."
I would disagree with this and here is why.
In your house how many rooms do you have that you decorated and can truly say are yours????
In my/our house I have none.
1. Bedroom, while having both my wife and my stuff it is painted and decorated by her.
2. Kitchen, I get food the rest is her space.
3. Spare room, her sewing table has taken control.
4. Bathroom, it isn't my sea shells in there.
5. Living room, I choose the electronics the rest of the decor she picked.
6. Garage, started as mine but she has overtaken half of it with her crafts and stuff.
7. Dining Room, her china (one might say ours) but really guys break a piece and see what happens.
8. Gun Room, My only true room for me...I thought (she some how has attached her zumba stuff to my TV in there as it is the only room with hard wood floors and space to work out)...dam
9. Laundry room, I have been banished from ever stepping foot in there every again.....Yes...a win for me. (shrink one thing...try it it works)
I would say the house is more hers than mine, oh she lets me believe I'm the king of the castle but I have to have a happy queen to make life worth living...lol
"First of all, there is no "head of the household" here. We are equals. I hate this idea that the man should be "the man" and what he says goes. That's so arcane a concept that I can hardly wrap my head around it."
I would disagree with this and here is why.
In your house how many rooms do you have that you decorated and can truly say are yours????
In my/our house I have none.
1. Bedroom, while having both my wife and my stuff it is painted and decorated by her.
2. Kitchen, I get food the rest is her space.
3. Spare room, her sewing table has taken control.
4. Bathroom, it isn't my sea shells in there.
5. Living room, I choose the electronics the rest of the decor she picked.
6. Garage, started as mine but she has overtaken half of it with her crafts and stuff.
7. Dining Room, her china (one might say ours) but really guys break a piece and see what happens.
8. Gun Room, My only true room for me...I thought (she some how has attached her zumba stuff to my TV in there as it is the only room with hard wood floors and space to work out)...dam
9. Laundry room, I have been banished from ever stepping foot in there every again.....Yes...a win for me. (shrink one thing...try it it works)
I would say the house is more hers than mine, oh she lets me believe I'm the king of the castle but I have to have a happy queen to make life worth living...lol
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
There was nothing wrong with any of the posts before he lost it. And it was I who he took his vengeance out on. I made none of those posts. I did say that she has as much right to tell him when and when not to carry as he does to tell her what to wear and how much makeup. THIS seems to be what set him OFF.
Sorry to be late commenting on this. Might be beneficial to stop beating up on each other.
IMO, we should have only been responding the the gentleman's request of things that have worked regarding means/methods to help someone understand why we carry, particularly spouses or GFs.
Nothing, repeat nothing, ought to be directed at the personal relationship that exists between he and his wife - that is quite frankly none of our business.
Remember the old adage of sticking to the facts, relating experiences, but leave personal remarks out of the equation.
I trust that isn't too much to ask of responsible people.
Many years ago my SO (significent other) exclaimed, "Why do you have THAT?" when she first saw my handgun. Now years later, she carries (mostly CC, but some OC) 24/7 and she loves going to the range. It took time to build that understanding and confidence - you can't rush it.
IMO, we should have only been responding the the gentleman's request of things that have worked regarding means/methods to help someone understand why we carry, particularly spouses or GFs.
Nothing, repeat nothing, ought to be directed at the personal relationship that exists between he and his wife - that is quite frankly none of our business.
Remember the old adage of sticking to the facts, relating experiences, but leave personal remarks out of the equation.
I trust that isn't too much to ask of responsible people.
Many years ago my SO (significent other) exclaimed, "Why do you have THAT?" when she first saw my handgun. Now years later, she carries (mostly CC, but some OC) 24/7 and she loves going to the range. It took time to build that understanding and confidence - you can't rush it.
it is truly amazing what ppl volunteer...
i will offer my humblest well wishes to your partner and wish them speedy recovery and a very happy B'day
and as it was your opinion, so were the previous posters guidance on how to deal with the OPs situation as he posted it.
do you truly believe if the OP were chatting w/friends they would have been as kind and fair in describing how they would handle the situation? if you do then you do not have close friends as mine.
interestingly, studies have shown one of the main reasons ppl post in anonymous forums, chat rooms, sex sites, etc., is because the poster can be anything, or anybody, or discuss any topic that might be taboo discussing with there friends or family. additionally, those posting might not be presenting reality but their 'what if' reality of what if this occurs if i do this or that to get a sense of what could happen if they proceeded a certain way to deal with something that is bothering them.
ipse
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DaveT319
Regular Member
Do you want to know exactly why I posted here? Because I don't personally have any friends who carry. I have no one I can go to in person for advice on the subject. So I came here, hoping the collective experiences of this group would help give me ideas on how to discuss the subject and maybe swing things in my favor. And I DID get some good suggestions. But I also got a lot of BS that had nothing to do with anything, especially the "suggestions" that there's something deeper wrong in my marriage, and that I should seek counseling.
I took the "be the man" stuff with a grain of salt. But when people who don't know me start making claims about the state of my relationship beyond the questions I asked, then I have a problem with that, and I suspect many others would as well.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Didn't ask you to leave. Please stay.
Generalized admonitions really do not contribute to the discussion either. Hold those members individually accountable for their words.....it is the respectable thing to do. I do and did.
Your sentiment is worthy of consideration by all and I, in particular, agree with your sentiment. Maybe it is easier, less work, to shotgun our displeasure at times than it is to address the source of our ire directly. Some folks will not change their approach unless confronted directly, it does work more times than not. Those that it does not work on can be ignored or ridiculed gratuitously at our pleasure.
+1 to you Sir.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Ignore them, but do not place them on ignore. As I have previously posted, you seem to have made your choice and carry. She does seem to be coming around. Sometimes a marriage takes a licking and we find that it keeps on ticking. If you can survive this crowd a wife may be easy to handle.
Though, don't tell my wife I said that.
Again, welcome and ease her into the wonderful world of firearms. Though, if she gets gung ho and goes all pink on you I'd be reevaluating your relationship. Especially if shiny baubles are requested to be affixed to her firearm.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
OP supposedly has me on ignore, but I will post it anyway.
The internet is not the place to solve your relationship problems, whether gun related or not. And if you are posting it, asking for advice it clearly is a problem.
In healthy relationships one party does not try to control the other. Getting married one does not give up their freedom to be an individual. Carry is everybody's right, it can only be taken away if you let it be taken away. Some things just are too important and personal to be compromised on. Emotional outbursts on the internet never end well. Never ask for advice if you do not intend to listen, even to the advice you do not like. Remember YOU ASKED!
Most times I am on line with GS, not this time, we are not here to hold hands, and sing Kumbaya. We are here to promote legal open carry of holstered handguns, not solve spats between spouses. Plus giving advice is worthless if the party is not willing to listen.
The internet is not the place to solve your relationship problems, whether gun related or not. And if you are posting it, asking for advice it clearly is a problem.
In healthy relationships one party does not try to control the other. Getting married one does not give up their freedom to be an individual. Carry is everybody's right, it can only be taken away if you let it be taken away. Some things just are too important and personal to be compromised on. Emotional outbursts on the internet never end well. Never ask for advice if you do not intend to listen, even to the advice you do not like. Remember YOU ASKED!
Most times I am on line with GS, not this time, we are not here to hold hands, and sing Kumbaya. We are here to promote legal open carry of holstered handguns, not solve spats between spouses. Plus giving advice is worthless if the party is not willing to listen.
MurrayRothbard
Regular Member
Question: Is your relationship strong enough for you to explain your position, disagree with each other, and move on? Or will she be unwavering in her protests against the idea, and pissed every time you carry with her around?
If it's the latter, then you have a long, tough road ahead.
Maybe, as a couple, take a self-defense class, or perhaps you can invite some friends over who have experience handling criminals and facilitate conversation about the dangers of the world today.......I really don't know what else to say man. I would hate to see a family completely broken up and divorced over something like this, while at the same time I cannot imagine not being able to carry myself.
My own experience with this issue: My wife was reluctant as well to have guns in the house, but after Hurricane Katrina, she was on board with "owning" a "single" gun. Then I quietly got my conceal permit a few years later, she knew about it but didn't understand why it was necessary, but didn't really protest too much. Now (multiple weapon purchases later mind you) with the Knock-out game happening...she is HAPPY I carry now.
I wish you the best, and please do update us as things progress.
If it's the latter, then you have a long, tough road ahead.
Maybe, as a couple, take a self-defense class, or perhaps you can invite some friends over who have experience handling criminals and facilitate conversation about the dangers of the world today.......I really don't know what else to say man. I would hate to see a family completely broken up and divorced over something like this, while at the same time I cannot imagine not being able to carry myself.
My own experience with this issue: My wife was reluctant as well to have guns in the house, but after Hurricane Katrina, she was on board with "owning" a "single" gun. Then I quietly got my conceal permit a few years later, she knew about it but didn't understand why it was necessary, but didn't really protest too much. Now (multiple weapon purchases later mind you) with the Knock-out game happening...she is HAPPY I carry now.
I wish you the best, and please do update us as things progress.
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DaveT319
Regular Member
We're definitely the former. We've been through quite a lot; this is just a difference of opinion. Just looking for ways I might sway her opinion.
Taking a class together is a good idea. I've been thinking about having her take one (as I've already taken one, plus my experience in the police academy), but taking it together might be a good idea.
I know if we have something happen where the gun is necessary, it'll change her mind about it. But really I never want that to happen. I hope I go my whole life without having to draw my weapon, let alone fire it. The hard part it would seem is going to be convincing her that it's worth having around without having to prove it first-hand.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
It sounds like the two of you have made some progress in this. A class or a few classes together would probably help a lot since there are usually some women present. If there are any get togethers (meet and greet) in your area for those who carry, see if she is up for attending a couple of them. There are some excellent books and videos available that may also serve her well... if she is willing to take advantage of them. And of course, range time goes a very long way in both easing her mind and possibly creating an interest she didn't know she had.
Keep at it and don't give up. But also remember that your liberty is important. It is possible to deal with this.
since9
Campaign Veteran
I've found the best approach is to love her irregardless of her opinion. When love her enough to let it go, she'll come around. Or perhaps not, but at least you'll still be together.
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
To the OP: I apologize for the little jab I took when I first replied (post #5). I guess I'm partly to blame for starting the snowball effect that ensued with respect to posts focusing on your relationship instead of the simple underlying question "how do I address the fears/ignorance of a family member". I try to (over-) use smileys to make sure people know I'm kidding with them over the Internet just as I normally kid with friends in person, but tone is something that is quite tricky to convey across fiberoptic cords and servers.
Also, your situation is stressful and you obviously love your wife or this wouldn't be an issue, and I can see how certain comments could be taken as attacks on your wife. No harm was meant, and no ill will towards you or yours.
I'd say most of us hope we never have to use the gun we carry for its intended purpose of defending our lives from those who choose to do harm, even if it means we'll always be known as "the crazy gun owner down the block". Unfortunately, we don't get to make the decision of where and when we are attacked, if we are attacked.
If possible, have your wife look at the thread Protias has been cultivating with real-world examples of attacks that happen in "safe" places. Even better, let us talk to your wife in a thread and maybe we can address some of her concerns (title it "DaveT319's wife visits OCDO" or something obvious)
. Of course, the best thing would be having her speak with other females of our species (the OC species).In regards to your original question, I'd like to say that several posts gave some of the best links out there (that I've seen) dealing with introducing women to firearms and their self-defense use. So here is a list of the links I could find in this thread alone, all in one place for your convenience, as well as that of future people that may stumble across this thread. Please see to it that your wife visits at least one of the sites addressing female gun ownership, since some women tend to succumb to the sexist notion that "guns are a guy thing".
[Posts quoted in their entirety, but without the quote "bubbles" in case someone later on wishes to simply quote the entire list].
Rusty Young Man in post 24:
To the OP: here is an list I think may help.
Psychiatrist examines anti-gun mentality (may explain your wife's stance):
http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm
http://oldsite.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm
Naive pacifism (though I now doubt she is a real pacifist, this may be applicable):
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/10/03/pacifism-a-naive-and-dangerous-approach-to-life/#kant
And here is one OCDO thread dealing with carry in places the antis usually say don't warrant carry (THANK Protias for keeping it fairly up to date):
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80229-No-need-for-a-gun
The advantage of the last one is the inclusion of links to news reports. Invaluable if you are trying to how someone that it isn't likely an Internet-perpetuated myth.
MKEgal in post 57:
"I've brought up having her take the basic pistol class. Can't say she was eager to do it, but I think she would at least give it a go."
If you see a Cornered Cat class near you, sign her up for it. See if there's an all-women class, 'cause the dynamic is completely different. Kathy Jackson is a nationally-known instructor.*
www.corneredcat.com is a very good resource for women shooters, and has lots of useful info for shooters of all descriptions and plumbing types.*
Here's why it's called "Cornered Cat", and would be a very good place for your wife to start exploring the articles on the site, as well as an explanation of why you carry.*
There's a section on ethical questions, "why I carry a gun", understanding crime, and a section for men that you should read.*
Beyond that, I think that Skidmark & PistolPackinMama gave good advice.*
Try to get her to tell you exactly what her objection is, very specifically, and why she feels that way.*
That's the only way you're going to be able to figure out how to help her address her fears or concerns.
golddigger14s in post 92:
A great site for your wife to check out:
http://www.thewellarmedwoman.com/man-i-might-have-killed
Send her an email for her book.
Grapeshot in post 94:
Also two more fantastic sources:
The book Armed & Female by Paxton Quigley
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...f-defense-expert-paxton-quigley-says-yes.html
And the site The Cornered Cat
http://www.corneredcat.com/
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Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
This may be one of the more important questions brought up about the OP's wife. If she has more reasons for seeing guns in a negative light than the loss of part of her finger, the issue may lie deeper, in which case it is probably the fault of the "brainwashing" Eric Holder has campaigned for.
From what the OP has told us, it seems he's making some headway, and if his wife's issues with guns are deep-rooted, it will take some time until she's comfortable, and hopefully she'll become an active supporter (if not an OCer herself).
I'll only add my little anecdote about my mother, aunt, and a female cousin:
My mother used to be (~20 years ago) anti gun, anti knife, anti scary-looking things. I don't know how I was allowed to own my own knife since 5, and I don't know how I was able to convince her that carrying it was not crazy. She approved of my carrying a knife for self-defense before I owned a gun. She's been pro-knife for about a decade now because of it.
I took her shooting for one Mothers' Day, and she's been pro-gun for roughly two years now. I OC constantly inside and outside of the home (my gun goes where I go, and vice versa), and she SUPPORTS OC now, and not just my OC.
Roughly one year ago, both the aunt and cousin in question were anti gun. Even as late as Independence Day weekend (amazing how you just don't forget certain things, isn't it?), both almost threw fits when I tried to explain my reasons for carrying (I'd just started carrying, and OC was my only option at the time; I OC about 99.999% of the time). Fast forward to November of 2013, and my cousin was now in favor of me carrying (as well as armed LACs) and was ASKING me to take her to the range (our schedules conflict a bit, so I'll be taking her sometime next month). The aunt is still wary of handling guns herself, but acknowledges their importance in self-defense, and approves of me carrying. Funny thing is, when she stated that her fear of to the range was that she expected too much recoil, my MOTHER was the one that took up the conversation to explain to her that my 1911 had little recoil and was actually fun to shoot (my mother is beginning to show some signs of arthritis in her fingers and wrists).
The point of my anecdote:
Change can take years when programming must be undone, and it helps to have someone on your side who can relate better to the person whose fears you are trying to address.
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DaveT319
Regular Member
First off RYM, I want to thank you for your last two posts. And to put your mind at ease, I did take your post in the tongue-in-cheek tone that you intended.
Second, I want to clarify that it was my wife's sister who shot part of a finger off, not my wife.
Third, I considered the "lib" angle, and while she IS registered Democrat and I Republican, we have both become more of Independents, in that we make up our own minds rather than follow a particular party's politics. However, on this issue, she would definitely fall to the "lib" side, and while she does not express general anti-gun views, she DOES seem to not want them in our house. While she much more readily accepted my purchasing a rifle for hunting, she has never felt the same about handguns. So I don't think she can really be easily categorized as "lib" even on this issue, though certainly there is some comparison.
Anyway, it's late, so I'll respond more to your posts tomorrow.
Second, I want to clarify that it was my wife's sister who shot part of a finger off, not my wife.
Third, I considered the "lib" angle, and while she IS registered Democrat and I Republican, we have both become more of Independents, in that we make up our own minds rather than follow a particular party's politics. However, on this issue, she would definitely fall to the "lib" side, and while she does not express general anti-gun views, she DOES seem to not want them in our house. While she much more readily accepted my purchasing a rifle for hunting, she has never felt the same about handguns. So I don't think she can really be easily categorized as "lib" even on this issue, though certainly there is some comparison.
Anyway, it's late, so I'll respond more to your posts tomorrow.
DaveT319
Regular Member
Ok RYM, to comment on your stories:
My buddy that lives next door is a gun nut. His wife is pro-gun. Her and my wife have talked a bit about this stuff, and I think she has helped a little. I think one thing I should do is see if she will take my wife shooting, just the two of them. That could be very helpful.
A funny thing here as that my wife's aunt has two guns of her own, but seems to be against me carrying as well, according to my wife. They apparently talked at some point. Now, she's not opposed to me/us having guns like my wife is, just carrying (either open or concealed).
On top of that, I think her parents are anti-gun, though her brother is pro. But then my own parents were always anti, yet somehow I was always interested in guns. But I just found out a couple months back that they are now thinking about getting one!
My buddy that lives next door is a gun nut. His wife is pro-gun. Her and my wife have talked a bit about this stuff, and I think she has helped a little. I think one thing I should do is see if she will take my wife shooting, just the two of them. That could be very helpful.
A funny thing here as that my wife's aunt has two guns of her own, but seems to be against me carrying as well, according to my wife. They apparently talked at some point. Now, she's not opposed to me/us having guns like my wife is, just carrying (either open or concealed).
On top of that, I think her parents are anti-gun, though her brother is pro. But then my own parents were always anti, yet somehow I was always interested in guns. But I just found out a couple months back that they are now thinking about getting one!
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