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fixed blade question (california)

realityfatality

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
56
Location
orange, california
I hope I've posted in the right section, I'm using my phone so browsing is kind of hard.

Well I'll start by introducing myself as joshua I am currently under the age of 18 for 2 more years, recently I received a fixed blade ka-bar marine utility knife as a christmas present from a family member. I'm aware of all of my rights and the california state law regarding fixed blade knives. Must be worn openly and etc. I'm also aware of the deadly force statues if it ever come to that point which I hope it never will.

I open carry my tool in densely populated orange county california. I've been stopped and released multiple times by local law enforcement but never detained and never had my blade confiscated (I'm aware I should ask for a receipt of item if this does happen) but I have noticed most people, police officers and some buisneses are not aware of california state law and threaten me with LEO or physical harm. This keeps me from going some places which is unfortunate but I refuse to not excercise rights that are avaible to me as a free citizen. Usually I'm bombarded with "why do you need that" or "you're too young to carry that". I've grown up carrying knives and have owned a 3in folder since I was 5 years old. A knife is a knife no matter size or how it's carried, and I don't plan on giving up the right I've had as a child for liberal sheep.

But my question is, will my age and knife in question be serious judgemental factors if ever tried in a legal case? I'm aware state law has no restrictions of age but sometimes our government has "unspoken standards" if you know what I mean.

Thank you very much, I look forward to being a member of this community.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I cannot answer your question on California law. Someone else surely will. You will probably get more answers, better answers, and faster answers if you ask in the California forum. The States are listed alphabetically on the main index.

I posted mainly because you report being stopped many times, but never detained. If you were stopped by a LEO for any reason other than he and you being citizens voluntarily chit-chatting, you WERE detained.

If you did not feel that you were free to walk away, the courts would have used an even stronger term than detained: For however briefly that the officer was requiring your presence, you were seized in the very sense that the 4A uses that word.

I will not speak to the lawfulness of such a detention in California (not being familiar with the intricacies of CA law), but I will pass along that LEOs cannot willy-nilly detain citizens. They must have a specific reason, authorized by law for the detention.

One such reason would be reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime (articulable meaning that they could, at the time of the stop, put their reasonable suspicion into words). California also authorizes LEOs to stop citizens openly carrying firearms to check that the firearm is unloaded, but, IMO, that law is of questionable constitutionality.

I would suggest that you research the laws of California to determine whether detentions (even momentary ones) for the OC of a knife is lawful. Whether you choose then to challenge the next officer who violates your rights, or cooperate for the sake of expediency, would be up to you.

When I am unlawfully stopped, I take the time to educate the officers--politely. If they continue to issue orders (that are likely unlawful, but that will be determined later), I will specifically state that I do not consent, but will not resist their overt acts to enforce those orders. Make them take your ID. Make them seize your weapon. Etc. Do not hand these items over, but do not resist their taking. Have a recorder running at all times.

Just my zwei Pfennige.
 

Born2Lose

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
262
Location
PRK, East County San Diego
Off Topic, but you are one educated well spoken (written?) 16 year old. At 16 all i cared about was hopping up my '68 Camaro and girls. Good for you! It took me until my mid 20's to wake up from my sheep sleep.
 

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
I hope I've posted in the right section, I'm using my phone so browsing is kind of hard.

Well I'll start by introducing myself as joshua I am currently under the age of 18 for 2 more years, recently I received a fixed blade ka-bar marine utility knife as a christmas present from a family member. I'm aware of all of my rights and the california state law regarding fixed blade knives. Must be worn openly and etc. I'm also aware of the deadly force statues if it ever come to that point which I hope it never will.

I open carry my tool in densely populated orange county california. I've been stopped and released multiple times by local law enforcement but never detained and never had my blade confiscated (I'm aware I should ask for a receipt of item if this does happen) but I have noticed most people, police officers and some buisneses are not aware of california state law and threaten me with LEO or physical harm. This keeps me from going some places which is unfortunate but I refuse to not excercise rights that are avaible to me as a free citizen. Usually I'm bombarded with "why do you need that" or "you're too young to carry that". I've grown up carrying knives and have owned a 3in folder since I was 5 years old. A knife is a knife no matter size or how it's carried, and I don't plan on giving up the right I've had as a child for liberal sheep.

But my question is, will my age and knife in question be serious judgemental factors if ever tried in a legal case? I'm aware state law has no restrictions of age but sometimes our government has "unspoken standards" if you know what I mean.

Thank you very much, I look forward to being a member of this community.

I think your pretty good to go, but don't go on college campuses. Long knifes are Illegal there I believe.
I to use to carry a long fixed knife all the time, as I was a trapper then, no LEO ever bothered me.
It to was a Kabar.
Anyway study the laws so your confident of what your doing.
Here's some more Info. Hope this helps you !
Robin47 :)

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/law/caknifelaws.shtml

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100404230019AAji3EL

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7637944_california-laws-fixed-blade-knives.html
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11378&stateId=5&stateName=California

For Orange County. Ka-Bars are great fighting knives. My Jarhead friends swore by them in 'Nam. However, most states have specific laws on length of knives--even open carried, and consider them dangerous weapons over 3" and therefore other than knife regulations/codes/statutes apply. While a sheath knive of 7" may be legal to open carry while hunting/fishing/hiking, it may be under dangerous weapons statutes wherein if you draw if for any reason you are brandishing in a municipality. I'm no expert in the PDR's draconian laws for its subjects, so suggest you check the codes I linked above and do a little online research. Welcome to the forum. It's nice to have the (much ) younger generation represented.
 

Army

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
289
Location
San Luis Obispo, California, USA
Joshua, just for future clarification. "Marine" is always capitalized when referencing the fighting arm of the US Navy.

ie: you have a Marine combat and utility knife, made by KABAR.

:)
 

realityfatality

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
56
Location
orange, california
I cannot answer your question on California law. Someone else surely will. You will probably get more answers, better answers, and faster answers if you ask in the California forum. The States are listed alphabetically on the main index.

I posted mainly because you report being stopped many times, but never detained. If you were stopped by a LEO for any reason other than he and you being citizens voluntarily chit-chatting, you WERE detained.

If you did not feel that you were free to walk away, the courts would have used an even stronger term than detained: For however briefly that the officer was requiring your presence, you were seized in the very sense that the 4A uses that word.

I will not speak to the lawfulness of such a detention in California (not being familiar with the intricacies of CA law), but I will pass along that LEOs cannot willy-nilly detain citizens. They must have a specific reason, authorized by law for the detention.

One such reason would be reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime (articulable meaning that they could, at the time of the stop, put their reasonable suspicion into words). California also authorizes LEOs to stop citizens openly carrying firearms to check that the firearm is unloaded, but, IMO, that law is of questionable constitutionality.

I would suggest that you research the laws of California to determine whether detentions (even momentary ones) for the OC of a knife is lawful. Whether you choose then to challenge the next officer who violates your rights, or cooperate for the sake of expediency, would be up to you.

When I am unlawfully stopped, I take the time to educate the officers--politely. If they continue to issue orders (that are likely unlawful, but that will be determined later), I will specifically state that I do not consent, but will not resist their overt acts to enforce those orders. Make them take your ID. Make them seize your weapon. Etc. Do not hand these items over, but do not resist their taking. Have a recorder running at all times.

Just my zwei Pfennige.

The reason I say I wasn't detained because when I was stopped and questioned and the officer asked if could secure my weapon I ask if I may put it out of both of our reaches for fear of having my tool being illegally seized. Them following that question I ask if I am being detained and if I'm free to go. I've always been told no it's just stop and identify kinda thing. Then they usually ask for my id and to search me. I usually refuse both and they don't give me too hard of a time after chit chat on the radio with shift commander who I've had called out to scenes before when officers have hassled me. Usually I end the conversation before it goes that far. I always keep my phone in my shirt pen pocket away from my blade in plain sight so I can easily deploy it to record if something goes south.

Joshua, just for future clarification. "Marine" is always capitalized when referencing the fighting arm of the US Navy.

ie: you have a Marine combat and utility knife, made by KABAR.

:)

I was not aware of that, Thank you very much sir.
 

realityfatality

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
56
Location
orange, california
Off Topic, but you are one educated well spoken (written?) 16 year old. At 16 all i cared about was hopping up my '68 Camaro and girls. Good for you! It took me until my mid 20's to wake up from my sheep sleep.
Thank you Born2lose. just at some point got tired of getting taken advantage of by the system we can use just because I wasn't aware of how it worked. Everythings a lot clearer when you know the laws and your rights. I feel like the most confident american on the continent
I think your pretty good to go, but don't go on college campuses. Long knifes are Illegal there I believe.
I to use to carry a long fixed knife all the time, as I was a trapper then, no LEO ever bothered me.
It to was a Kabar.
Anyway study the laws so your confident of what your doing.
Here's some more Info. Hope this helps you !
Robin47 :)

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/law/caknifelaws.shtml

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100404230019AAji3EL

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7637944_california-laws-fixed-blade-knives.html

Thank you for the links & information. Will bookmark those for future refrence.


Sorry for double post I was unable to get all of the quotes in my first.
 

realityfatality

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
56
Location
orange, california
The OP reminds me of me. I dig that.

Thanks a lot pullnshoot25. I bet the main reason for that is how many times I've lurked this forum in the past and refrenced to many posts on this forum in order to conduct every day buisness within and along the lines of all of my rights and the law. I can't name how many times I've ended up here when researching different laws and ordinances. I was only able to join after I bought a newer phone that was more capable of browsing but I can say I've read well over a thousand posts on this forum. Quite a few have been yours. I can't even express how much I appreciate the knowledge and comfortablitiy I've obtained about my state/country from the level headed knowledgeful users of this forum over the passed two years or so.
 
Last edited:

bad_ace

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
327
Location
Cupertino, California, USA
I always keep my phone in my shirt pen pocket away from my blade in plain sight so I can easily deploy it to record if something goes south.

My advice, start recording the moment you think contact from a LEO will occur. Deleting it later costs you nothing, missing the first part or the beginning of it "going south" could cost you.

Nice to see you standing up for your rights! I think too many of us focus on the post 18/21 years old type activity and miss the fact that self defense and tool carrying is inalienable and reserved for all ages :)
 

realityfatality

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
56
Location
orange, california
My advice, start recording the moment you think contact from a LEO will occur. Deleting it later costs you nothing, missing the first part or the beginning of it "going south" could cost you.

Nice to see you standing up for your rights! I think too many of us focus on the post 18/21 years old type activity and miss the fact that self defense and tool carrying is inalienable and reserved for all ages :)

Good advice. Thank you very much, I never considered that.

And yeah, glad to find someone that understands. I also think standing up for my rights while making the right decisions will reserve the right for my future children and my future childrens children. I know I expect to give my kid a blade when he/she seems responsible enough
 
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