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My inquiry to Lansing PD on the CADL TRO

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
I am not a defendant on the restraining order against MOC. So, I have questions that need to be cleared up. I sent the below to:

tszymanski@lansingmi.gov
council@ci.lansing.mi.us
cityatty@ci.lansing.mi.us


Dear Chief Szymanski,

I have recently read about a temporary restraining order with regard to certain forms of legal firearms carry in some libraries in your area. The restraining order is against "Defendant [Michigan Open Carry, Inc.] and its members, . . . alone or in concert with others, including any officer, agent, employee and/or representative of Defendant and/or any of its members."

I am not a member, officer, agent, or representative of the Defendant. I do not act "in concert" with the Defendant. I do lawfully open carry, but it is my own individual choice and practice and not due to any membership in any organization of the Defendant's nor to acting "in concert" with Defendant.

I wish to know what your department's enforcement policy will be toward open carriers like myself, who are not members of the Defendant nor acting "in concert" with the Defendant, if we open carry in the libraries to which this TRO applies. Clearly this restraining order does not apply to me; however, statements the library management has made in press releases give me cause for concern that they will try to have you enforce this restraining order on people who are not Defendant's named in the restraining order.

I do travel to Lansing occasionally, and it is possible that I will need to use the libraries in question. Please clarify how you will handle open carriers in the relevant libraries who are not Defendant's named in the restraining order.

Respectfully,
(DanM)
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Very well played sir.

If they state "Yes, we will enforce against you", then they are exceeding their authority and the TRO.

If they state "No, we will not enforce against you", then the TRO really is meaningless but creates 2 separate "classes" of persons who carry firearms (against Equal Protection Under Law).

Next up, time to hit the MI AG on this one...
 

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
Very well played sir.

If they state "Yes, we will enforce against you", then they are exceeding their authority and the TRO.

If they state "No, we will not enforce against you", then the TRO really is meaningless but creates 2 separate "classes" of persons who carry firearms (against Equal Protection Under Law).

Next up, time to hit the MI AG on this one...

Option 3 - They ignore you.
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Option 3 - They ignore you.

Option 4 - I keep this email in my computer, no matter whether they respond or not, as evidence of notice, and pull it out if and when it becomes relevant.

Sometimes, you need to think about, and act for, the potential contingencies beyond what it seems your actions are for. Even if I knew they wouldn't respond, I would've still sent the email.
 

kubel

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Mar 2, 2010
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Option 3 it the most likely. Or they will tell you to consult a lawyer. I have a feeling some good folks in LPD would rather see the courts handle this while being involved as little as possible.
 

Michigander

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Aug 24, 2007
Messages
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Mulligan's Valley
I have a feeling some good folks in LPD would rather see the courts handle this while being involved as little as possible.

Before this, I never ever really remember the LPD being a problem, even early on in April of 08 when we had that picnic with like 10,000 joggers and like a dozen cops coming by. Aside from the odd issue like Venator being questioned at the capitol, it's always seemed like they respect us.

So that said, I don't find it likely that the LPD is trying to go out of their way to mess with us. In their position, I know I would suggest a lawyer to Dan if I had any concerns about getting fired, slammed in the media or tangled up with a judge.
 

DanM

Regular Member
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Jul 11, 2008
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1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
I don't find it likely that the LPD is trying to go out of their way to mess with us. In their position, I know I would suggest a lawyer to Dan if I had any concerns about getting fired, slammed in the media or tangled up with a judge.

In my email to the chief (and other city officials copied in), I'm not asking for a legal opinion which would require a lawyer. I'm asking what the police policy or procedure is for potentially enforcing this TRO, if or when they get a MWAG call from CADL. This is a simple question of whether or not their officers currently have management guidance on this matter. God help the officers if they don't. It could bite them in the butt.
 

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
In my email to the chief (and other city officials copied in), I'm not asking for a legal opinion which would require a lawyer. I'm asking what the police policy or procedure is for potentially enforcing this TRO, if or when they get a MWAG call from CADL. This is a simple question of whether or not their officers currently have management guidance on this matter. God help the officers if they don't. It could bite them in the butt.
Kinda wondering if they have a members list, and how often its updated? I know I am.
 

Haman J.T.

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Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
When did this TRO come into being and how did I miss it?Another illegality!Suit time shortly?
So if some wacko commits a crime against someone there now,it certainlywill be suit time!
Goes to show how little they value the safety of the citizens(their employers)! IGNORANT BOOBS! OOPS! That just slipped out! EXCUSE ME!
 
Last edited:

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Kinda wondering if they have a members list, and how often its updated? I know I am.

Hmm, very interesting.

A members list is of no use against people who they do not obtain identification from.

What, then, is their management guidance, when faced with open carriers who are not giving them ID and whom they otherwise have no PC or RAS to believe are Defendants named in the TRO?

That is the most interesting question about the LPD officers' guidance from management on how to handle any MWAG call from CADL to enforce this TRO.
 
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