More twists in the Walter Scott shooting case

This is interesting. Appears Walter Scott was fighting with the police officer and used the Tazer on the officer, before running off:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-video-shows-officer-slager-with-taser-darts/

Also appears the officer didn't help matters by tampering with the crime scene and moving the Tazer.

Could be the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder for him. The article suggests it could be justified, which is of course ridiculous. I know one thing, any confrontation with "heroes" in this country is potentially lethal. They will cover up and lie and protect each other until the bitter end. Best wear audio and visual recording devices to protect yourself.

Tampering with the evidence is very bad for the officer, though perhaps partly motivated by fear of being regarded as someone who lost control of his weapon.

If a civilian were shot by a non-LEO with a Tazer, and didn't know whether it could now be used to incapacitate him after such a physical fight, would the use of lethal force be reasonable? Perhaps if the confrontation were continuing, though it appears the assailant was fleeing and no longer a threat.

PeterNSteinmetz said:

Tampering with the evidence is very bad for the officer, though perhaps partly motivated by fear of being regarded as someone who lost control of his weapon.

If a civilian were shot by a non-LEO with a Tazer, and didn't know whether it could now be used to incapacitate him after such a physical fight, would the use of lethal force be reasonable? Perhaps if the confrontation were continuing, though it appears the assailant was fleeing and no longer a threat.

Click to expand...

If there was mutual combat and Scott had taken the taser there wouldn't have been any criminal charges. Once he shot him in the back while pathetically running away, it became murder. Aggravating and mitigating circumstances might come during the trial of the murderer.

Reading at the link and the comments on the link, it does certainly change my perspective. The first reports/video I saw looked like he just shot a fleeing suspect and then tried to plant evidence. This link suggests that maybe the cop was tazered during the scuffle, shot because he thought the suspect still had control of the tazer still attached to the officer and then picked up the tazer and moved it over by the body to retain control of it so no one could walk up, grab it and use it against him as a contact weapon. Most all of that is supposition and most of it impossible to know until more information/evidence is released or presented at trial.

I'll just say this - this new information puts it all in a much more gray area in my mind and once again reinforces the importance of innocent until proven guilty and withholding judgment until all facts are in evidence, which will apparently happen in due time.

And this is why I keep advocating (angrily, at times) to utilize the principle of Presumption of Innocence. I still see so many people do trial by social media, which angers me. In nearly every case like this, a single video - showing only part of the story - is what everybody focuses on. Then they're surprised by a Not Guilty verdict, because the jury saw the whole of the evidence.

Animated GIF of Slager dropping Taser: http://i.imgur.com/DTYSXXC.gif

That obviously biased opinion piece labeled "Truth", is just a biased for the murder as most of the MSM reports are against.

It still does not change my opinion whatsoever.

jackrockblc said:

And this is why I keep advocating (angrily, at times) to utilize the principle of Presumption of Innocence. I still see so many people do trial by social media, which angers me. In nearly every case like this, a single video - showing only part of the story - is what everybody focuses on. Then they're surprised by a Not Guilty verdict, because the jury saw the whole of the evidence.

Click to expand...

The other side of that coin is that the "defendants" in such stories, in the meantime, get to make up a good story, get union advice, and depending on the department, multiple lawyers.

Tennessee v Garner allows a cop to shoot a fleeing felon only if he presents a threat of grave bodily injury or death to the officer or others. The taser clearly wasn't functioning against the officer, so that threat is not present.

I am not at all impressed with the OP article. The author wants to raise uncertainty about the cop maybe not knowing the taser had been dropped, thinking he was still linked to a hostile by taser wires. Huh!?! Does the author think the deceased tucked the taser into his pants before running away? Does the author think the cop can't tell the runner's hands are not holding something the size of a taser? Just because we can't see the taser wires in a grainy video doesn't mean the cop couldn't see the wires, and the cartridge bouncing along the ground.

Nope. The presumption of innocence is a right for citizens against government. Its not a right for government. And, don't nobody try to say the citizens are government--far, far too many examples of government considering itself above the law and above ordinary citizens. Plus, criticizing a government agent is in fact an enumerated right. It is the other government agents who have to give Slager a presumption of innocence in the context of the justice system, not citizens speaking in public fora.

It's nice to see a different perspective on the shooting. Even the most staunch cop lovers have been pretty quite on this one.
He apparently tried to stop him by non lethal force. After it failed he murdered him. But I doubt he'll be convicted. There are many, some on this forum, that believe murder is an acceptable response to resisting arrest. The cop does not have to be in any danger in their eyes. I'm pretty positive they will get one of these on the jury.

BB62 said:

Animated GIF of Slager dropping Taser: http://i.imgur.com/DTYSXXC.gif

Click to expand...

Scumbag "feared for his life."

The Truth said:

Scumbag "feared for his life."

Click to expand...

Cite please.

On Monday, Slager sent reporters a statement through his attorney, David Aylor. He repeated that he felt threatened and had no choice but to use deadly force.

http://www.postandcourier.com/scott-timegap/

Click to expand...

Local paper down in Charleston SC. Other sources are available that report the cop's claimed justification and his departments reiteration of his claimed justification.

OC for ME said:

Local paper down in Charleston SC. Other sources are available that report the cop's claimed justification and his departments reiteration of his claimed justification.

Click to expand...

Fair enough.

Does anyone find it strange that all of the other officers' reports have been released, but not Slager's?

BB62 said:

Fair enough.

Does anyone find it strange that all of the other officers' reports have been released, but not Slager's?

Click to expand...

For myself, not really.

He's an ex-employee; releasing the statements might violate a personnel policy. Separately, the department may see obvious contradictions between the statements and the video; and, are guessing that releasing the statements might trigger another Ferguson. Call it holding onto the statements for political and/or public safety reasons.

And, even with his (former) Garrity privilege, in the few days right after the shooting, Slager may have decided to not make any detailed statements until he talked to his lawyer.

So, all in all, no, I don't find it strange that Slager's report hasn't been released.

PeterNSteinmetz said:

This is interesting. Appears Walter Scott was fighting with the police officer and used the Tazer on the officer, before running off:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-video-shows-officer-slager-with-taser-darts/

Also appears the officer didn't help matters by tampering with the crime scene and moving the Tazer.

Click to expand...

I read that article and dismissed it, that site is known for being state apologists. IIRC they helped push the rumor that DW had a broken eye socket. Watch the videos, when Scott runs from his car he is running normally, as he is running before he is shot he is running like he has a physical disability. OTH Slager shows absolutely no physical signs of being tazed.

The article is pure hogwash.

[video=youtube;MP9GHluE9ao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MP9GHluE9ao[/video]
"after the tazing my whole body felt like jello"

Anybody who still thinks the killer was tazered please raise your hands.

WalkingWolf said:

...The article is pure hogwash...

Click to expand...

I disagree. More information is better than less.

Slager has a great deal to explain, and may not ultimately be able to justify his actions, but there is more to the incident than the video, and various parties are already playing games with selective information release.

WalkingWolf said:

I read that article and dismissed it, that site is known for being state apologists. IIRC they helped push the rumor that DW had a broken eye socket. Watch the videos, when Scott runs from his car he is running normally, as he is running before he is shot he is running like he has a physical disability. OTH Slager shows absolutely no physical signs of being tazed.

The article is pure hogwash.

Anybody who still thinks the killer was tazered please raise your hands.

Click to expand...

I can receive the article's assertion about tazer wires without rejecting it (nor accepting it). It doesn't do anything except muddy up the logic chain. Cops got all kinda gear and soft body armor. Ain't no barbs gonna pierce soft-body armor, belt gear, badge, etc. All it takes is for one barb to not meet skin, and there is no circuit.

And, this assumes the cop didn't taser himself in the struggle. For example, say the citizen saw the taser being drawn, and grabbed it or the officer's arm to deflect the taser, and the cop, finger-on-trigger, reflexively fires the taser while its pointed at him in the back-and-forth motions of a struggle. Maybe he gets a barb in his leg or whatever, the other barb hitting equipment or missing altogether.

For all we know, when the citizen initially saw the taser being drawn, he thought he was about to be shot with a gun. I have personally seen a taser carried by a cop in an across-the-chest holster that took me a couple seconds to recognize it was a taser, not a pistol. And, that is only because I've seen pictures of tasers, and know a little bit what they look like.

Citizen said:

I can receive the article's assertion about tazer wires without rejecting it (nor accepting it). It doesn't do anything except muddy up the logic chain. Cops got all kinda gear and soft body armor. Ain't no barbs gonna pierce soft-body armor, belt gear, badge, etc. All it takes is for one barb to not meet skin, and there is no circuit.

And, this assumes the cop didn't taser himself in the struggle. For example, say the citizen saw the taser being drawn, and grabbed it or the officer's arm to deflect the taser, and the cop, finger-on-trigger, reflexively fires the taser while its pointed at him in the back-and-forth motions of a struggle. Maybe he gets a barb in his leg or whatever, the other barb hitting equipment or missing altogether.

For all we know, when the citizen initially saw the taser being drawn, he thought he was about to be shot with a gun. I have personally seen a taser carried by a cop in an across-the-chest holster that took me a couple seconds to recognize it was a taser, not a pistol. And, that is only because I've seen pictures of tasers, and know a little bit what they look like.

Click to expand...

That is why they yell taser, taser, taser, before deploying the taser so the person about to be tasered will know it is not a firearm. I believe in the video Slager did yell those words, plus if the wires were attached to Slager, as Scott was running away and the taser was on the ground, there would be NO wires to Scott.

Slager was clearly in full control of his faculties, Scott did not have the taser, Slager tried to plant evidence, and lied to others caught on audio. Also caught on audio Slager laughing after the incident. Plus there was no mention by the PD that Slager had been tased, why? Normally departments release information supporting their cops immediately. No where on his audio does he say that he was tased, he does lie and say that Scott took his taser. IMO the wires were probably wrapped around both of them, a person responds to being tased much like a grand maul epileptic seizure. Maybe that is where they got the idea for tasers. After a seizure there is a state of confusion, same for taser recipients, none of this was seen in Slager's voice, actions, or body movements.

IMO Slager is a psychopath. Has no problem with lying, cold and calculated, feels no emotion. A very dangerous combination with a gun, and a badge.

Even before the video SLED was not buying his story.

WalkingWolf said:

SNIP That is why they yell taser, taser, taser, before deploying the taser so the person about to be tasered will know it is not a firearm. I believe in the video Slager did yell those words, plus if the wires were attached to Slager, as Scott was running away and the taser was on the ground, there would be NO wires to Scott.

Slager was clearly in full control of his faculties, Scott did not have the taser, Slager tried to plant evidence, and lied to others caught on audio. Also caught on audio Slager laughing after the incident. Plus there was no mention by the PD that Slager had been tased, why? Normally departments release information supporting their cops immediately. No where on his audio does he say that he was tased, he does lie and say that Scott took his taser. IMO the wires were probably wrapped around both of them, a person responds to being tased much like a grand maul epileptic seizure. Maybe that is where they got the idea for tasers. After a seizure there is a state of confusion, same for taser recipients, none of this was seen in Slager's voice, actions, or body movements.

Click to expand...

Good points.

Plus, I think you just touched on something very big--departments are usually quick to release information supporting their cops. The absence of the information you're pointing out is devastating to Slager. Being fired was bad enough; but, the absence of the supporting information...oh, boy, is that bad. Really bad.