Madison PD detains and cites OCers tonight.

[anmut]

I emailed Pat Synder (550am radio host) a copy of that in a follow up to an email regarding the original story. I also emailed the Alder myself: district3@cityofmadison.com

Dear Ms. Cnare

I just read a copy of an email that you sent out regarding the men that are being ticketed for Disorderly Conduct in regards to Open Carry at a Culver's Restaurant.

"Have a good time staying at home. While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms.
Lauren Cnare
District 3 Alder"

Even though you are not my Alder and I do not even reside in Madison, I will do everything within my power to spread this message across the state and national media. I will state to anyone that will listen that Lauren Cnare, a District 3 Alder in Madison WI, does not respect the Wisconsin Constitution or the 2nd Amendment. That she views the exercise of rights as "childish" and prefers that in a poor economy that people that wish to exercise their rights "have a good time staying at home because we won't miss you."

I appreciate your candor in this matter. It will surely help the voters decide whom they want to represent them.

Sincerely,

Anmut

 

[bhancock]

Sent to Julie Lund at Fox47 Madison, haven't heard anything back from her or other Alders.

 

[anmut]

I emailed Pat Synder (550am radio host) a copy of that in a follow up to an email regarding the original story. I also emailed the Alder myself: district3@cityofmadison.com

Dear Ms. Cnare

I just read a copy of an email that you sent out regarding the men that are being ticketed for Disorderly Conduct in regards to Open Carry at a Culver's Restaurant.

"Have a good time staying at home. While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms.
Lauren Cnare
District 3 Alder"

Even though you are not my Alder and I do not even reside in Madison, I will do everything within my power to spread this message across the state and national media. I will state to anyone that will listen that Lauren Cnare, a District 3 Alder in Madison WI, does not respect the Wisconsin Constitution or the 2nd Amendment. That she views the exercise of rights as "childish" and prefers that in a poor economy that people that wish to exercise their rights "have a good time staying at home because we won't miss you."

I appreciate your candor in this matter. It will surely help the voters decide whom they want to represent them.

Sincerely,

Anmut

Just got an email back from her:

Thanks for the publicity. I take my responsibilities to protect the integrity and atmosphere of my city very seriously and am painfully aware that the majority of conflict between people happens when others are not respectful of commonly accepted norms. We do not pack pistols in restaurants in Madison. Why not? Simply not necessary or appropriate. It's too bad that some people feel that exercising their rights to make a point has to be such an issue. Frankly, visits that cause these kinds of disturbances aren't economic stimuli for our city. That poor restaurant probably lost sales due to the show. As you note, you are not a Madison resident, thus don't know the flavor of our community. This could be the best campaign incident in a long time!

I appreciate your tongue-in-cheek candor, too.
Lauren Cnare
Alder, District 3
608-226-0987 (cell)
district3@cityofmadison.com (e-mail)

 

[McX]

visions of wisdom from lefty-land. i see the cop thread is calling us asshats, charmed i'm sure. any asshats here? please raise your hands?

 

[MatieA]

visions of wisdom from lefty-land. i see the cop thread is calling us asshats, charmed i'm sure. any asshats here? please raise your hands?

*raises Hand*

 

[anmut]

Just got an email back from her:

Thanks for the publicity. I take my responsibilities to protect the integrity and atmosphere of my city very seriously and am painfully aware that the majority of conflict between people happens when others are not respectful of commonly accepted norms. We do not pack pistols in restaurants in Madison. Why not? Simply not necessary or appropriate. It's too bad that some people feel that exercising their rights to make a point has to be such an issue. Frankly, visits that cause these kinds of disturbances aren't economic stimuli for our city. That poor restaurant probably lost sales due to the show. As you note, you are not a Madison resident, thus don't know the flavor of our community. This could be the best campaign incident in a long time!

I appreciate your tongue-in-cheek candor, too.
Lauren Cnare
Alder, District 3
608-226-0987 (cell)
district3@cityofmadison.com (e-mail)

My response:

Thank you for your quick response!

So by your views on the subject of one's right to keep and bear arms in Wisconsin Madison is a complete safe city free of any violent crime. We should expect that if such a situation would arise that the police can be called and will arrive on the scene before any violence occurs, is that correct?

I bet I would not have to dig deep into the police records in your district to find victims of violent crime. Who are you to deny them the right to protect themselves?

The situation at Culver's illustrates my point completely. The mere fact that a woman was so concerned with someone "shooting up the restaurant" along with her personal knowledge that violence has happened in restaurants previously tells me two things. 1) That she was uneducated about the laws regarding personal protection and 2) That she does acknowledge that violence can break out in the city of Madison.

Neither of us will probably change each other's minds on the issue. But I ask you to consider in the future that the law allows people the right to protect themselves and people who choose to exercise that right do not need to be belittled by elected officials sworn to uphold these very same rights.

Sincerely,

Anmut

 

[TyGuy]

She is obviously not aware of the Luby's massacre or the Lane Bryant shooting or any other number of incidents.

 

[Rich B]

We do not pack pistols in restaurants in Madison.

See, my reply would have been:

"Yes we do 'pack pistols' in Madison, and we will be doing it a lot more now that you have chosen to violate innocent citizen's rights."

 

[anmut]

BTW - new article on the Wisconsin State Journal
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_eacaa046-c571-11df-a52c-001cc4c002e0.html

I'm actually surprised how neutral it is considering the source.

A 62-year-old woman visiting a local Culver's sees several restaurant patrons with guns on holsters in plain view.

She doesn't know that Wisconsin law allows people to openly carry a firearm, so she notifies authorities, later telling them, "I didn't want to be that one person that saw guns and didn't call and something horrible happens."

Officers arrive to find five armed men at the restaurant near East Towne Mall. In an effort to determine whether there is any threat to public safety, they ask to see the men's identification to make sure they're not felons, who are prohibited from possessing firearms.

To some, the actions by Madison police Saturday evening are reasonable. But members of gun rights organizations say police had no reason to suspect the men were felons. And what happened next, they say, amounted to the illegal search and detention of two of the men when they refused to provide their IDs.

Shawn M. Winrich, 33, of Madison, said he remained silent when police asked if he would provide his ID. Police then told him he was being placed under arrest, and he was handcuffed, disarmed, searched and held until police determined he was not a felon, Winrich said.

Winrich and Frank R. Hannan-Rock, 53, of Racine, were then given municipal citations for obstructing an officer, Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain said.

But Auric Gold, secretary of Wisconsin Carry, and Mike Stollenwerk, cofounder of OpenCarry.org, said police do not have the right to demand that people identify themselves without probable cause to believe they've committed or are about to commit a crime.

That was not the case with the five Wisconsin Carry members who had simply gotten together to meet and have a meal, Winrich said.

Winrich said he began carrying a gun about four months ago for personal safety and routinely takes it anywhere it is lawfully permitted without incident.

"People know it is legal and it's not something to be concerned about," he said. "Most people really don't have much of a problem with it. They're just kind of curious."

But Winrich, who made an audio recording of the encounter with Madison police, said he carries a recorder in case a problem arises. He said he chose not to give his ID to Madison police because of "the attitude and the overstepping of authority that they had."

Wisconsin Carry won a $10,000 judgement against the city of Racine and its police department after Hannan-Rock was involved in a similar incident there, Gold said.

Openly carrying a firearm is "just like anybody else carrying a carrot down the street, or a cell phone," Stollenwerk said, adding that police in the 43 states that allow some form of open carry have become accustomed to people's right to have a firearm. "This stuff doesn't happen in the rest of the country anymore."

Madison Police North District Capt. Cameron McLay said he believes officers acted appropriately in responding to a report of armed men in a public place in an urban setting, and the caller's concern that something might happen.

McLay said police were going into "a highly ambiguous situation" and had to determine if a crime had been or was about to be committed and preserve public safety, while assuring the rights of all involved. "This is what the officers did in this case to the best of their ability."

But McLay questioned whether obstruction was the correct citation given the circumstances. On Monday, detectives were sent to Culver's for further investigation to determine if another criminal charge, such as disorderly conduct, is warranted, McLay said.

Based on initial police reports, he acknowledged, "There is no indication that a disturbance had taken place."

McLay declined to comment on the legality of searching and detaining Winrich and Hannan-Rock until the police investigation is completed.

 

[Rich B]

Based on initial police reports, he acknowledged, "There is no indication that a disturbance had taken place."

Now you just need a reporter to hold his feet to the fire and ask him "If there was no indication that a disturbance had taken place, how can you justify the charge of Disorderly Conduct?".

 

[rotty]

Have a good time staying at home. While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms.
Lauren Cnare
District 3 Alder

Are you kidding me ? This can't possibly be a real position of a public official. This HAS to be bs.

Edit: After reading past the initial post on this I see this is real and my gaping mouth for some reason won't close now.

 

[bhancock]

Are you kidding me ? This can't possibly be a real position of a public official. This HAS to be bs.

Edit: After reading past the initial post on this I see this is real and my gaping mouth for some reason won't close now.

That is absolutely an unedited response from that particular Alder. I forwarded complete copies to the officers of WCI just because it was so unbelievable that I thought the source may be questioned. I have had no other responses from the other officials I e-mailed in Madison and no further communication from Laren Cnare to my follow up reply. Ya, I really didn't believe it at first either. It is WAY OUT There.

 

[anmut]

Are you kidding me ? This can't possibly be a real position of a public official. This HAS to be bs.

Edit: After reading past the initial post on this I see this is real and my gaping mouth for some reason won't close now.

Yep she's a gem! No email response from her again. She's probably gone home for the day to rest. It's hard work infringing on rights!

 

[bhancock]

Or perhaps someone over at the PD watching this forum advised her that she better clam up and let the more experienced rights violators deal with it.

 

[anmut]

Or perhaps someone over at the PD watching this forum advised her that she better clam up and let the more experienced rights violators deal with it.

Hahah! I can see the memo being written:

Dear Alderwoman Leftist

Please refrain from any more contact the the crazies. We have people in place to completely execute their rights. Also remember that guns are scary and that Madison has enough idealist elite to protect you from criminals!

Sincerely

Captain Constitution Shredder

 

[ARADCOM]

Here's some irony.

Since I don't really know anything about Madison I thought I'd do a little research to find out what kind of city it is, population, etc.

I found this piece of Madison's history to be pretty funny considering the Chiefs press release and the Alder persons emails.

"Doty named the city Madison for James Madison, the 4th President of the U.S. who had died on June 28, 1836 and he named the streets for the other 38 signers of the U.S. Constitution." Doty is "former federal judge James Duane Doty" who purchased the land and founded the city in 1836.

For a city kind of founded on the Constitution it seems to be on the wrong path.

 

[anmut]

Since I don't really know anything about Madison I thought I'd do a little research to find out what kind of city it is, population, etc.

I found this piece of Madison's history to be pretty funny considering the Chiefs press release and the Alder persons emails.

"Doty named the city Madison for James Madison, the 4th President of the U.S. who had died on June 28, 1836 and he named the streets for the other 38 signers of the U.S. Constitution." Doty is "former federal judge James Duane Doty" who purchased the land and founded the city in 1836.

For a city kind of founded on the Constitution it seems to be on the wrong path.

I have a sister that lives there and well - let me tell you that the disconnect between Madison and the rest of the state is great. Most people there think that through positive thinking and high education (and left wing agendas) that Madison could be a utopia of progressives.

If you ever seen the South Park episode where people drive Prius hybrids and get so full of themselves that they like the smell of their own farts - well that's Madison. I mean, Oboma is coming there for a second time next week in about a month.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

Captain Constitution Shredder

I believe it is Chief Constitution Shredder.

 

[Rich B]

For a city kind of founded on the Constitution it seems to be on the wrong path.

Try living in the "Constitution State".

 

[March Hare]

And people say we have crazies here in Arizona... well, yeah, we do. But...

Wow.

I believe it is Chief Constitution Shredder.

LOL! (literally!)

-MH