Citizen, I am "thinking out loud" as much as you are here.
FOR THE RECORD, I apologize for having a chip on my shoulder when I was responding to your posts. Even though this thread only got 2 pages, somehow I was confusing who was posting what, and who was responding to what post of who.
As for "permission," I do believe that was applicable to point out. Even in a "thinking out loud" discussion. It sounds like a niggle, but I do believe that in the law, there IS a difference. Specifically, states have the power to create statutes. And, the Hiibel decision did not grant permission for states to create a statute; but Hiibel did help define the terms of "Stop and ID" statutes. And, as in this specific, if states do not follow the terms of Hiibel, those existing statutes, especially the Common Law-based, are very likely to be unenforceable. Notwithstanding that "word what means old and unused". :lol: