Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
I have seen people make reference to OC in a vehicle but I can not find any change to current statutes which declares a holstered handgun in a vehicle to not be concealed.....
It's on page 4 in the enrolled SB93.
It's has nothing to do with the permit. 167.31 was ammended to exclude hanguns to eliminate 'The Dance'.
The DNR has "Rule Making Authority". RMA means that a rule made by a derpartment with that authority is considered law until found otherwise in a court of law.
The DNR says this in the 2010 hunting rules.
"Arms transportation:
• All firearms must be unloaded and completely enclosed within carrying cases designed
to carry a firearm when in or on any vehicle whether moving or stationary.
A holster is not a legal carrying case for a handgun in a vehicle unless it completely
encloses the handgun."
The statement says that a holster is not a proper means of concealment. The whole purpose of a carrying case in this paragraph is to conceal the weapon.
.
167 is only 1 of the 2 Statutes which prevent us from holster carry in a car. No exception was made to the CCW statute clarifying that holster carry in a car (or any other carry) is not CC.
The way I see it...
Statute 167.31 is the main reason we cannot open carry (loaded and holstered) in a vehicle. That staute is being repealed with SB-93....
Outdoorsman1
The way I see it...
Statute 167.31 is the main reason we cannot open carry (loaded and holstered) in a vehicle. That staute is being repealed with SB-93.... gone... non-existant....
None of the above has anything do do with concealed carry with permit....
When SB-93 goes into effect, you will not need a permit to OC in a vehicle as the statute 167.31 will be eliminated... The "Dance" will be gone.... :banana: :banana: :banana:
This was my biggest gripe when it became known that the repeal of statute 167.31 was going to be included in the 4 month waiting period... NOTHING to do with the new permits, but yet those who want to maintain Open Carry, still have to wait before they can do it in a vehicle.....:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Outdoorsman1
Sorry, but that's not true. See State v. Cole or State v. Fisher. Carrying an uncased firearm in a vehicle has always been a violation of 941.23 (concealed carry ban) AND 167.31. Even an unloaded and cased firearm is a violation of 941.23 if it's within reach. 941.23 is the more serious, because it's a class A misdemeanor (criminal offense), while 167.31 is a civil forfeiture (basically a "ticket" like littering or jaywalking).
Thank you for the information. I have been stopped by LEO (He recived a report from a concerned citizen that I was carrying a loaded gun in my car)...
I had the unloaded and cased firearm on the passenger seat well within reach. He confirmed (by checking with my permission) that it was unloded. I went on my merry way.... I guess I was lucky he was not a game warden or DNR guy..(???)....
Outdoorsman1
Better keep it on the dashboard if you don't get a permit, or until we see how this will be enforced.
Not true. That was a court opinion, not a law or court decision.This very subject has been discussed at length, hundreds of times, on other forums. Carrying an uncased firearm (loaded or not) in a vehicle in WI has always been a violation of TWO state statutes... 167.31 & 941.23.
You know the definition of 167.31.. no need to rehash that.
To violate 941.23, three things must be present.
1.) A firearm (or other weapon) hidden from ordinary observation.
2.) The actor knows it's there.
3.) It's within reach.
The WI Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that inside a vehicle constitutes #1, and the passenger compartment = #3. Not hard to prove you knew it was there if it's your gun and your vehicle.
We used to joke on another forum, that the only perfectly and technically legal way to transport any firearm in a vehicle in WI is in a clear gun case duct-taped to the hood or roof. The sad part is it wasn't really a joke, but a fact.
Dude... It's irrefutable truth. it is published case law.... Here is the actual quote from the WI Statute...Not true. That was a court opinion, not a law or court decision.
What is not case law is the definition of "hidden". This is the only thing left to debate.To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
Dude... It's irrefutable truth. it is published case law.... Here is the actual quote from the WI Statute...
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0941.pdf
What is not case law is the definition of "hidden". This is the only thing left to debate.
since those in authority usually dont know the law, and random chances act in our favor, none of this has ever had to be challenged directly. but it will change soon anyway. i'm fancying an Open Carry motorcycle experience(s) personally.
A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation
by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from
view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this
section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).