Bodo's Bagels Charlottesville apparently Anti-Gun

[peter nap]

VCDL looked at this issue some time ago. Obviously we prefer that both modes of carry be accepted. However, if they allow guns in either OC or CC mode, we can't call them anti-gun with a straight face. They might be anti OC or anti CC, but not anti-gun. If they ban guns altogether, that is anti-gun.

It just would send the wrong message to BoDo's that we are going to treat them the same as Buffalo Wild Wings. If we are going to do that, they may as well stop allowing CC, too, and just post a "no guns" sign. If you are going to take the heat anyhow, you may as well go for the gusto!

You may be surprised at just how many treat them exactly like Buffalo Wild Wings Philip.
I'm already getting emails saying (Direct quote):

"I will steer visitors elsewhere... "

 

[Sheriff]

I'll bet there's not 5 members here that eat at Bodo's on a regular basis (once a week). There's not going to be a lot of steering folks away going on. I could tell all my friends and family not to go there any longer, but they would laugh and snicker later and say that I sure do have some crazy notions about some things. It wouldn't prevent any of them going to Bodo's because Bodo's has good food and reasonable prices. They also hire good clean decent employees...... and pay a decent wage I've heard. This means a lot when somebody is handling the food you're going to be putting in your mouths. I think I am going get an egg, bacon and cheese bagel as soon as I get up in the morning. They are out of this world!!!

 

[Neplusultra]

I'll bet there's not 5 members here that eat at Bodo's on a regular basis (once a week). There's not going to be a lot of steering folks away going on.QUOTE]

Two things. The OC community has a lot of influence statewide, but locally we are quite limited. 5000-10,000 highly active people statewide is a lot of people, in a small locality it doesn't add up to much. That said it doesn't do a business any good to offend it's customers, gunners or anti-gunners. Why do anything that will cause the loss of one sale?

That being obvious begs the question of what is then the best thing to do? For the business, the pro-gunners and those uneasy with the presence of guns..... Confrontationalism is not the answer. That is the very concern of those afraid of guns, confrontation. I've heard, and I fully believe, that those opposed to guns are converted once they actually have an experience with them. Invite them, employees and owners both, to the range. Show them that guns and law abiding citizens who carry them are not a threat in any way. Teach them about safe handling of firearms. The old "Keep your booger hook off the bang switch", etc. They'd have fun and a real eye opening experience. We love guns because we know the good they can be. They, not having that experience, have plausible issues with such. Some range time and interaction with responsible gun owners should very well change that. Customers will not see it as a threat either if they know the owner and employees are at ease with it. And over time no matter what the customers will realize that truth.

Personally I'm thinking of opening a bagel shop called, "Bilbo Baggen's Bodacious Bagel Bordello"..... It might sell if the bagels were good enough :^).

This post has been double checked for typos..... It would be good if Ed would do the same :^).

 

[Grapeshot]

I'll bet there's not 5 members here that eat at Bodo's on a regular basis (once a week). There's not going to be a lot of steering folks away going on. I could tell all my friends and family not to go there any longer, but they would laugh and snicker later and say that I sure do have some crazy notions about some things. It wouldn't prevent any of them going to Bodo's because Bodo's has good food and reasonable prices. They also hire good clean decent employees...... and pay a decent wage I've heard. This means a lot when somebody is handling the food you're going to be putting in your mouths. I think I am going get an egg, bacon and cheese bagel as soon as I get up in the morning. They are out of this world!!!

Interesting how you disparage publicly the influence and diminish the worth of those LAC that wish to promote acceptance of OC (the very foundation of OCDO) and chose to hold in higher esteem your personal desire for a bagel and egg. It is true enough that we all put different values on things.

I'm sorry that you have so little positive influence on your friends and family that they would "laugh and snicker" at you. Perhaps a different, more sincere and better articulated, approach might change their views.

Now it is a fact that I have never been to Bodo's - more importantly it appears that I never will. Obviously both you and the owner think they will lose more hoplophobic customers than those of us that chose to be responsible LAC - you both could have chosen to be part of a national trend of acceptance and understanding through education.

Rather than count the customers, count the cars that do not stop, the business lost, and ask what could be done to attract them. Can I have an effect on that? I believe I already am and will continue be.

 

[Bowesmobile]

I have to agree with Grapeshot, Neplusultra and Peter nap. I do happen to be in Charlottesville from time to time. When I am there I am not alone. With that being said, they will be missing out on at least 6 potential sales from me and my family alone. Not including the possibility of the other people I am with which knowing my friends and their family sizes that could be another 5-6 sales lost. So in the end it means they not only have lost my business but also those that are with me. It starts to add up, trust me. I didn't join OCDO to learn how to conceal carry. I also believe the constitution doesn't make a distinction about how I carry. But it states that I can and that means anywhere I go. Now you decide to infringe on my rights and I don't see the need to compensate your cash drawer for it. Plain and simple. Change your mind. Go to the range and teach yourself and your employees to not be hoplophobic. Then I will gladly come to your store and recommend it to my friends. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say you would get preferential treatment over other businesses (the food has to be good, not saying its not, just saying I'm not paying anyone to eat cardboard). So there you have it.

 

[peter nap]

I find it a little humorous, granted morbid humor, but any joke in a storm...that Philip would play a semantics game today of all days.

VCDL President:
we can't call them anti-gun with a straight face. They might be anti OC or anti CC, but not anti-gun. If they ban guns altogether, that is anti-gun.

President Obama:STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?

OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.

Supreme Court:
OBAMACARE STANDS...Mandate survives as a tax...

What we need in this country is a dictionary mandate!

 

[Marco]

Bodo's

1. they can only guess about the person carrying the weapon--about the level of training they may have received, their situational awareness, their sense of the great responsibility inherent in carrying a weapon, their intentions, their intelligence, their legal status.



2. I'm sure you're also aware, since you have a concealed weapons permit, of the levels of training and screening required to obtain one, and that the permit warrants the competence of the person carrying in something like the same way--if not to the same extent--as does a law enforcement uniform.



3. Any cashier standing in front of a drawer full of money _has_ to worry--if they are conscious of their immediate surroundings at all--when approached by a customer wearing a sidearm, and there are plenty of our customers who are actively distressed, both for their own sake and for the sake of others, by a weapon worn openly in a crowded, busy, noisy place like Bodo's.

Do these folks get the same feeling with LE? See # 2


4. I do feel very keenly, however, that I have an obligation to do all that I can to ensure the comfort and safety of my staff and patrons.

5. I would appreciate it very much if you would consider closed-carrying in the store

6. my obligation to preserve a pleasant, unthreatening environment for my staff and for all of my customers remains.

Thanks to the OP for posting.




1).
Ever heard "Don't judge a book by it's cover!"
When was the last time you saw a criminal lawfully openly carry their firearm...rhetorical.. they don't, they conceal carry or as you call it closed carry. Criminal want the element of surprise.. it's their advantage.


2).
What level? Get a background check same as those that buy a firearm from a FFL and pay your fee.
Oh yeah, I forgot the hunters safety course/ NRA basic steps class/online test.


http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...1st-century-deadly-force-training-for-police/
One large agency’s officers scored a gunfight hit rate of just 11 percent during a 10-year period I analyzed. That’s a staggering statistic, but another number was even more shocking. Though the sample was admittedly small, the bad guys in those incidents also scored an 11 percent hit rate.
Their Academy Commander summed it up perfectly: “My officers get a hundred hours of firearms training in the academy and quarterly qualifications thereafter, but are hitting at the same rate as felons with no formal training? We should save all the ammunition, because our training program seems to be worthless!”

3).
Do these folks get the same feeling with LE/private security?
So much for that competence- See bold part of # 2.


http://www.policeone.com/officer-mi...s-committing-crimes-You-get-what-you-pay-for/
I look at numerous headlines involving law enforcement officers and agencies across the country, I see two topics repeatedly coming to the forefront. First, we have story after story about cops committing crimes — from dealing drugs, to committing burglaries and armed robberies, to on duty sexual assaults in squad cars.

4).
Does Bodo's plan to train and hire armed security.

5).
No way, I'm not going to reward you for your stance. My money will go to a company that respects my rights.
I will respect your rights (Bodo's) by not patronizing.

6).
So, an open carrier threatened and was unpleasant in the store?? Why didn't you have that person arrested/tresspassed?
So please tell me how are you going to deal with actual issues/threats.. all you are dealing with are irrational fears.
Are you going to beg/plead with violent criminals not to rob your establishment and not harm your employees and patrons.
Are you or one of your staff going to walk folks to their cars to ensure their safety and the non threatening atmosphere?

I let my kids choose, I told them about Bodo's stance (I let them read the letter sent to Jay) and told them they could decide, Bodo's or anywhere else.

So, In honor of Bodo's position me and mine will take our money elsewhere. While we didn't spend much at Bodo's before ($100-150 monthly) it is money a competitor will be getting. Dunkins Dounts was our choosen place this morning.
Ihop gets 2-3X that monthly from us, why because we are welcomed with open arms.


No further discussion or money from me about/to Bodo's unless they change their policy!

 

[Sheriff]

While we didn't spend much at Bodo's before ($100-150 monthly) it is money a competitor will be getting.

Sorry, but I'm screaming EXAGGERATION on this remark.

 

[Sheriff]

VCDL looked at this issue some time ago. Obviously we prefer that both modes of carry be accepted. However, if they allow guns in either OC or CC mode, we can't call them anti-gun with a straight face. They might be anti OC or anti CC, but not anti-gun. If they ban guns altogether, that is anti-gun.

It just would send the wrong message to BoDo's that we are going to treat them the same as Buffalo Wild Wings. If we are going to do that, they may as well stop allowing CC, too, and just post a "no guns" sign. If you are going to take the heat anyhow, you may as well go for the gusto!

Excellent reply from an outstanding organization. :monkey:

 

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Agent19
While we didn't spend much at Bodo's before ($100-150 monthly) it is money a competitor will be getting.

Sorry, but I'm screaming EXAGGERATION on this remark.

Actually it would not surprise me he has a rather large family and he himself can eat.

 

[Red Dawg]

Sorry, but food costs money. A family being fed isn't always cheap. A sandwich, coffee (drink), and tip is on average, what 10 bucks a pop? Five people, three times a month, and 150 isn't crap. Sheriff, you my friend are being a goof. Just because you don't agree with their opinions, which I happen to. It's discrimination, plain and simple.

 

[Grapeshot]

Originally Posted by Agent19

While we didn't spend much at Bodo's before ($100-150 monthly) it is money a competitor will be getting.

Sorry, but I'm screaming EXAGGERATION on this remark.

I've known Agent19 for some time now and have never seen him over play his hand. Would you be willing to reimburse him for the money he has actually spent at Bodo's since January 1st if he can substantiate (credit card statements) his claim?

Do you prefer your words broiled or baked? :lol:

 

[Bodo]

I'm glad, Jay, that you did receive my response. Thanks again for your email and for your willingness to hear and consider our perspective honestly, and thanks for posting the entire response here. We do, for what it's worth, understand both that VA law does not require a permit to open carry and that concealing a weapon without a permit to do so is unlawful. I appreciate the link as well, and have reviewed most of those posts before posting again myself to clear up what seems to me to be some confusion as to the meaning of my response.

To quote from my response to Jay: "we do not have any policy at Bodo's regarding the carrying--open or closed--of handguns by our customers." My email was directed specifically to Jay, who had made a point of telling me that he did have a concealed weapons permit, and while I did say that "I would appreciate it very much if [he] would consider closed-carrying in the store," I went on to say, again, that "we do not. . . have a policy which explicitly excludes guns from Bodo's."

As I explained at some length in my response to Jay, I do not intend any automatic response to anyone carrying--open or closed--in the store, but I know that the presence of guns in the store is a source of discomfort both for my employees and for my customers. I would certainly prefer that my patrons and employees not be distressed at all, but I will address the issue in the future just as I would any other--case by case, prompted by the situation that obtains in the store at the time. I'll say again, as I said to Jay, that I regret not having done that when I spoke to him in the store.

I don't believe that this is the way my response was understood in the forum, and, though I doubt very much that anyone posting here will be entirely happy with my response, I do hope that I can remove the perception that we intend any automatic response to an open-carry, and that there will be something in my response here that you find worthwhile.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snip--............... I went on to say, again, that "we do not. . . have a policy which explicitly excludes guns from Bodo's."

As I explained at some length in my response to Jay, I do not intend any automatic response to anyone carrying--open or closed--in the store, but I know that the presence of guns in the store is a source of discomfort both for my employees and for my customers. I would certainly prefer that my patrons and employees not be distressed at all, but I will address the issue in the future just as I would any other--case by case, prompted by the situation that obtains in the store at the time. I'll say again, as I said to Jay, that I regret not having done that when I spoke to him in the store.

I don't believe that this is the way my response was understood in the forum, and, though I doubt very much that anyone posting here will be entirely happy with my response, I do hope that I can remove the perception that we intend any automatic response to an open-carry, and that there will be something in my response here that you find worthwhile.

I understand your attempt to rationalize your position - on the surface it would seem fair = judge each situation on its own merits.

The major obstacle to finding any great degree of satisfaction here is you leave the Sword of Damacles hanging over our heads. There is no clear cut rule of conduct on which we may depend i.e. obey the laws, conduct yourselves responsibly, with courtesy and all are welcome.

Instead we must anticipate that if we make someone uncomfortable or they think it is illegal or they just don't like legal honest citizens carrying that we may be penalized, embarrassed and be asked/required to leave. That IMHO places the burden, potential penalty on us and empowers the unreasoned, unjustified complainer. In other words, you leave the threat of censure fully in place.

One of my personal heroes is a manager of a very large eating establishment who listened patiently to a gentleman rant about a young man OCing and demanding that the young man be made to leave as he was making him feel uncomfortable, replied "Sir, that young man fought to protect your right to express your opinion but what he is doing is legal in the Commonwealth of Virginia. If you don't wish to have him in the same room with you that is your privilege. There will be no charge if you wish to leave, but I will not ask that young man to do so.

An establishment does not have to be strongly pro self-defense - neutral is more than enough. Honor the laws of the state in which you are located - if their conduct is legal, don't penalize the citizens behaving responsibly.

 

[Sheriff]

I've known Agent19 for some time now and have never seen him over play his hand. Would you be willing to reimburse him for the money he has actually spent at Bodo's since January 1st if he can substantiate (credit card statements) his claim?

Do you prefer your words broiled or baked? :lol:

Why Jan 1? We're talking "month", not bi-annual.

If he can show me without a doubt where he spent $100 to $150 in Bodo's during the month equivalent period of May 27, 2012 to June 27, 2012, I will most certainly reimburse him for all of it.

I prefer my words stand their ground until proven otherwise. :monkey

 

[Grapeshot]

Why Jan 1? We're talking "month", not bi-annual.

If he can show me without a doubt where he spent $100 to $150 in Bodo's during the month equivalent period of May 27, 2012 to June 27, 2012, I will most certainly reimburse him for all of it.

I prefer my words stand their ground until proven otherwise. :monkey

How convenient that you should want to select a 30 day period when he had already curtailed his visits.

Actually his word was "monthly" - perhaps it would be reasonable to go back to when he first started taking his family there. His point being that this was not just a simple 30 day time period.

 

[Jay]

To quote from my response to Jay: "we do not have any policy at Bodo's regarding the carrying--open or closed--of handguns by our customers." My email was directed specifically to Jay, who had made a point of telling me that he did have a concealed weapons permit, and while I did say that "I would appreciate it very much if [he] would consider closed-carrying in the store," I went on to say, again, that "we do not. . . have a policy which explicitly excludes guns from Bodo's."

I don't believe that this is the way my response was understood in the forum, and, though I doubt very much that anyone posting here will be entirely happy with my response, I do hope that I can remove the perception that we intend any automatic response to an open-carry, and that there will be something in my response here that you find worthwhile.

This is extremely confusing to me as I am sure everyone else.

1. I was confronted by you initially and told not to carry the firearm in the store next time.

2. There is no policy for or against open carry your words.

3. You stated in your letter to me that you felt it would be better if I concealed carry in the future.

So as Grapeshot said you are leaving the burden on us to choose how we enter your establishment, and not knowing how it will be handled between one person and the next. I am also personally sick to my stomach when I am asked if I am a police officer because I know if I was that it would have been okay. Why is a police officers life any more valuable then mine. I pray every day that I am never ever put into a situation where I will have to defend myself or someone else. However the truth of the matter is I do have many friends that are police officers. They all say the same thing 99% of the time they do not get there until someone is dead or gravely injured. I do not want to be that statistic and feel no one is going to protect me except for me.


Yes I have a concealed carry permit which I recently just got. That does not make me any better or different then the men and women who choose not to have one. The only reason why I even got one is because for me being a very thin guy I freeze my butt off in the winter and carrying open is very difficult with winter apparel. During the summer time the opposite I am not wearing extra clothing in 90 degree weather to simply cover up my firearm. I like having that option to carry how I want. I am also very neutral in how others carry whether concealed or open it is there personal choice. However what ever their choice is as long as they are not breaking any laws I will support their decision all the way.

If I were an owner manager of a store and someone approached me and was uneasy about an open carrier. I personally would acknowledge there concern, express that I have no fear with there method of carry, and they are not breaking the law. (I know that someone that is hell bent on doing harm is not going to open carry (element of surprise). That is me though I realize that not everyone feels the same way that I do, but the great thing is we live in the land of free sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

Please also do not take mine or anyones post as a personal attack on you we all just strongly believe in protecting a right that we have, and actively support businesses that do not hinder that right. We are your neighbors, doctors, lawyers, EMT;s, IT professional, mechanic, police officer, and service men & women. Look at Starbucks there corporate office has publicly supported at the national level a persons right to carry whatever way they choose as long as it was within the laws of the state they are in. They have gotten some resistance for their choice, but in the end there are more people that either agree or just do not really care either way then are against them and they know that. When they made this decision I was personally shocked because I associate Starbucks as a place that primarily caters to people that are against the carrying of firearms but boy was I wrong.

 

[Jay]

Guys can we just let it go now with how many Bodo bagels Agent 19 and his family consume in any given month.

 

[brlong23]

As I explained at some length in my response to Jay, I do not intend any automatic response to anyone carrying--open or closed--in the store, but I know that the presence of guns in the store is a source of discomfort both for my employees and for my customers. I would certainly prefer that my patrons and employees not be distressed at all...

Hypothetically speaking, what if I, as a patron of Bodo's approached you as the owner and stated that the black man in line behind me made me uncomfortable? I wonder if your response to that law abiding citizen would be the same as it was in this circumstance? Would you approach the black man and tell him that despite him doing nothing illegal, he is worrying another patron and he had to leave???

The fact of the matter is, you have chosen to discriminate against a segment of your customer base because a larger segment of your customer base complained that they were uncomfortable despite not having a valid legal complaint. I believe that the common sense response (especially since you yourself have stated that your business has neglected to create a firearms policy, either for or against) would be to inform the complaintant that the citizen with the firearm is abiding by the law and is protected under the United States and Virginia Constitutions. If the complaintant still has an issue with that, then I believe he/she should be the one asked to vacate the business as they are the one making irrational claims intended to impeed someones constitutional rights.

On a personal note, I believe that this country as a whole continues to go down the proverbial toilet. It's amazing when someone's individual rights are trampled on because someone doesn't like them, doesn't know the law, and thinks that their feelings are more important than the others constitutional rights.

 

[brlong23]

Personally I'm thinking of opening a bagel shop called, "Bilbo Baggen's Bodacious Bagel Bordello"..... It might sell if the bagels were good enough :^).

Personally, I think you're going to get hit with a lawsuit by Peter Jackson and those that own the rights to Lord of the Rings...just saying. :lol: