Humanshield
Regular Member
Open Carry encounter in Minerva, Ohio (Audio Added)
In my little burgh of Minerva Ohio I was quite the attention getter last night. I have been open carrying for about 6 weeks without incident. Last night while walking down the street minding my own business I was flashed and eventually confronted with 3 cruisers and 4 officers (I think the entire on duty force in this little town) I was able to record part of the confrontation (with them being aware of it) . For the most part aside from not being aware of what the law actually states 3 of them where quite cordial. One officer however was quite aggressive. Raising his voice on multiple occasions and misquoting state law on multiple occasions. They where called by a citizen who witnessed me walking down the street and responded.
Upon the initial encounter the officer got out of the vehicle and asked me what was on my belt. I told them it was my personal handgun. He told me to put my hands where he could see them. which I did. He then approached me and said he was going to remove my firearm I then told him "I do not submit to search or seizure of my personal property" he disregarded this and took the gun from it's retention holster. They asked me for my ID to which I replied am I suspected of committing a crime? The first officer said "For carrying that gun
" To which I responded that carrying a gun was not illegal in the state of Ohio. He then asked if I had a CCW I told him that I was open carrying and preferred not to comment. They continued to demand my license to which I explained they could not demand my ID without reasonable suspicion. To which they said a complaint of a man with a gun was reasonable suspicion. I explain it was not they of course said I was incorrect. Eventually I asked if I could record the rest of the conversation and I would then show them my ID.
Conversation with the officers revealed that they had no idea that open carry was legal and I was then told that not alerting them of my CCW upon the initial stop was a crime and I could be arrested for it. I informed them that I was only required by law to inform them if I had been carrying a concealed firearm. Mind you most of the negative experience was from one officer in particular and the others seemed somewhat convinced from my argument that I may be within my rights. Eventually they ran my ID,my guns serial #, and my CCW. Returned it all to me and I was free to go. I was detained approx 45 minutes.
My question is are:
Where would I find a true legal definition of when they can DEMAND my ID or information that would ID me ie name,birth-date etc... (Reasonable suspicion)
When can they seize my firearm?
My concern was now my name is on record at the MPD for not breaking any laws. Is spoke with the supervisor on duty this morning he was about as reasonable as the one officer was last night. I am drafting a letter for the City Administrator , Chief of police, and City Law Director.
I am uploading the videos now. Here are the URL's YouTube tells me they will be available at.
Part 1 is here
http://youtu.be/3GgRRistMP0
Part 2 is here
http://youtu.be/1E-ny5mm0Sg
Keep in mind I was nervous during this encounter as I was in a gestapo situation, unarmed against my will, and my first such situation.
In my little burgh of Minerva Ohio I was quite the attention getter last night. I have been open carrying for about 6 weeks without incident. Last night while walking down the street minding my own business I was flashed and eventually confronted with 3 cruisers and 4 officers (I think the entire on duty force in this little town) I was able to record part of the confrontation (with them being aware of it) . For the most part aside from not being aware of what the law actually states 3 of them where quite cordial. One officer however was quite aggressive. Raising his voice on multiple occasions and misquoting state law on multiple occasions. They where called by a citizen who witnessed me walking down the street and responded.
Upon the initial encounter the officer got out of the vehicle and asked me what was on my belt. I told them it was my personal handgun. He told me to put my hands where he could see them. which I did. He then approached me and said he was going to remove my firearm I then told him "I do not submit to search or seizure of my personal property" he disregarded this and took the gun from it's retention holster. They asked me for my ID to which I replied am I suspected of committing a crime? The first officer said "For carrying that gun
" To which I responded that carrying a gun was not illegal in the state of Ohio. He then asked if I had a CCW I told him that I was open carrying and preferred not to comment. They continued to demand my license to which I explained they could not demand my ID without reasonable suspicion. To which they said a complaint of a man with a gun was reasonable suspicion. I explain it was not they of course said I was incorrect. Eventually I asked if I could record the rest of the conversation and I would then show them my ID.
Conversation with the officers revealed that they had no idea that open carry was legal and I was then told that not alerting them of my CCW upon the initial stop was a crime and I could be arrested for it. I informed them that I was only required by law to inform them if I had been carrying a concealed firearm. Mind you most of the negative experience was from one officer in particular and the others seemed somewhat convinced from my argument that I may be within my rights. Eventually they ran my ID,my guns serial #, and my CCW. Returned it all to me and I was free to go. I was detained approx 45 minutes.
My question is are:
Where would I find a true legal definition of when they can DEMAND my ID or information that would ID me ie name,birth-date etc... (Reasonable suspicion)
When can they seize my firearm?
My concern was now my name is on record at the MPD for not breaking any laws. Is spoke with the supervisor on duty this morning he was about as reasonable as the one officer was last night. I am drafting a letter for the City Administrator , Chief of police, and City Law Director.
I am uploading the videos now. Here are the URL's YouTube tells me they will be available at.
Part 1 is here
http://youtu.be/3GgRRistMP0
Part 2 is here
http://youtu.be/1E-ny5mm0Sg
Keep in mind I was nervous during this encounter as I was in a gestapo situation, unarmed against my will, and my first such situation.
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