If you don't like the laws, move & you're consenting, entering a social contract

[OC for ME]

So Rosa Parks should just have gotten off the bus?

The state was instituted to protect private property and individual rights not rape them.

Primus again reveals that which we already know, taxes came after citizens already owned the land. Caesar desires that transactions completely separate from government be taxed. I have a chicken and you want chicken soup. Government wants a piece of our private transaction. If we both refuse pay tribute Primus may be tasked to employ violent physical force for the state to gain its tribute. He is OK with that, being a cop and all.

Also, if I tried to leave the country without the state giving me permission I would be subject to violent physical force. Crossing the border into Canada or Mexico is against the law, not to mention what Canada and Mexico would do to me once they knew of my illegal border crossing.

Primus ignores the fact that the state compels us to stay, to pay our fair share, or that we must pay to leave. Either way we must pay the state for the privilege to stay or go.

 

[marshaul]

And what about those who cannot afford to leave – to quit a job, find a new one, and transplant a family and its accoutrements to a place sufficiently different as another state? The very act of paying taxes further weakens their ability to move, essentially leaving the "move or you consent" argument without basis.

 

[Primus]

And what about those who cannot afford to leave – to quit a job, find a new one, and transplant a family and its accoutrements to a place sufficiently different as another state? The very act of paying taxes further weakens their ability to move, essentially leaving the "move or you consent" argument without basis.

Ill respond to this since it's actually rational and a very good question.

I agree and admit that its TOUGH to save money to leave and that it even requires money in the first place. A move could cost as little as a few hundred tops (bus tickets and food for travel) up to a few thousand for comfort of driving and staying at hotels and better food or plane tickets and shipping items.

-the fact there's even an option to determine how much it costs to move is telling. Try telling that to people in countries who have to flee a place on foot with just clothes. Or have never owned/driven a car in their life.... But back to point-

My point is that unless there is physically debilitating medical condition a person can save to move. You could move with the clothes on your back and 100 bucks for train/bus tickets. Hell a person could just physically WALK and cost zero dollars other then food.

Now you wouldn't put your family through this and neither would I. But my point is the CHOICE is there. I CHOOSE to say that I won't move my current city until a better place opens up. I set the goals. No one else. And your a free man also.

YOU set your goals. If you say "I can't afford to move..." Well what is it you can't afford? To drive? Well sell the car and take a train. But you want a car? Hell so do I and I don't blame you. But that's a choice. "I can't afford to ship my items...." Well that a choice to keep said items. And etc. Etc. All along the line.

Again, I AGREE it costs money. But only because we choose to make it so.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Primus]

Primus again reveals that which we already know, taxes came after citizens already owned the land. Caesar desires that transactions completely separate from government be taxed. I have a chicken and you want chicken soup. Government wants a piece of our private transaction. If we both refuse pay tribute Primus may be tasked to employ violent physical force for the state to gain its tribute. He is OK with that, being a cop and all.

Also, if I tried to leave the country without the state giving me permission I would be subject to violent physical force. Crossing the border into Canada or Mexico is against the law, not to mention what Canada and Mexico would do to me once they knew of my illegal border crossing.

Primus ignores the fact that the state compels us to stay, to pay our fair share, or that we must pay to leave. Either way we must pay the state for the privilege to stay or go.

Can you cite its against to law to leave the country? That " if I tried to leave without the state giving me permission I would be subject to violent physical force."

Thanks in advance.

And as far as basicllly everything else you've said about being a cop means ok with violent bidding of the state to take money and blah blah horse***. Its stupid.

I have nothing to do with enforcing taxes. At all. The CLOSEST you could say would be on occasion I'll see a person has a warrant for failing to license their dog. And guess what... I refuse to arrest them on said warrant. So really I actually refuse to enforce violence to collect money or taxes.

And if you really believe the "well you get a pay check from the city/state therefore you are evil and agree with everything they do and are evil also" then your not as intelligent as I thought. Does the greeter at wal mart condone child slavery? Does the subway guy condone animal torture? Does the guy who bolts wheels on a car at Chevy condone murder or people when the manufacturer refuses to do recalls? What.... No? By your logic those statements would be true.

I really wish you guys had a better argument. The closest you've gotten is now making statement that's the .gov FORCES you to stay. But I doubt I'll get a legit cite for that.

Your arguing bcdefgh..... Start with A. Physically being here. Either you choose to be or you don't.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[OC for ME]

Can you cite...

It is a CFR, state.gov tells you what you need to cross the border. This does not count the law violations that the border guards could charge you with if you refuse their "requests" to meet the requirements of crossing the border. If you respectfully decline to show the required papers then you will not be allowed to cross the border legally. Sounds to me like I am forced to stay. I must pay to have the proper papers to show. Why must I pay for that which I should not need need?

You, being a cop, could be called upon to take by violent physical force, what the state deems as proper restitution of unpaid taxes. The IRS don't give a rip about property taxes (house), personal property taxes (car), state income taxes. Now MA may have separate armed revenue agents with arrest powers, MO does not, so sheriffs and cops do the "collecting." It could get violent if a citizen refuses to hand over his private property as requested.

Never said you were evil, you said that. If you are a cop you may be called upon to take, by violent physical force, a citizen's private property because a tax was not paid. Can you opt out of such a operation? I don't know. Not sure what Walmart, Subway, Chevy.

To wit: "The United States Marshal shall enforce the Order at the time he deems appropriate after 12:00 o'clock noon on Feb 5, 2010, by immediately removing and evicting the defendant, Les Roy Reid, and all other parties acting in concert with or on his behalf, or residing on the Property, if they fail to voluntarily vacate the property, including but not limited to, the structures, vehicles, and grounds, and by using force if necessary to accomplish that mission."

I'm confident that local cops will have a warrant/writ that has similar wording if the state wants private property.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

You can leave off with what I would "gladly" do. I know when you guys have nothing substantial to argue you just resort to the their person ad homen attacks but at least try to make a valid argument

Ceasar can't demand taxes unless you LIVE here.... That easy. So unless your argument is "casear keeps me here ta sword point THEN demands taxes......" It fails.

And save the "oh woe to me I was born here and can't afford to move....". Everyone can afford it one way or the other.

And the day you turn 18 (maybe earlier actually) and realize that the tax thing sucks but yet you STILL remain there and pay it.... Your consenting. The day you turn 18 and realize how crappy the gun laws are yet still stay there.... Consent.

This forum is riddled with "I left oppressive state for a free one.." Stories. How is that possible? How could they leave oppression for freedom if Caesar and his minions are stepping on everyone's throats?

Oh wait... Hes not. That's what we call being dramatic.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

So if a guy walks into my house and points a sword at me and says, "give me your money, or walk out the door" he has not coerced me because he's allowed me an avenue of escape? But if he points his sword and says, "give me your money and you are not allowed to leave," only then it is coercion? I hate to rag on you but your arguments are getting more ridiculous by the post.

 

[Primus]

So if a guy walks into my house and points a sword at me and says, "give me your money, or walk out the door" he has not coerced me because he's allowed me an avenue of escape? But if he points his sword and says, "give me your money and you are not allowed to leave," only then it is coercion? I hate to rag on you but your arguments are getting more ridiculous by the post.

My argument I'd ridiculous? After u post this?

I would shoot a guy with a sword at my door. Your "private property" is much different then your "public property" like say.... A park?

You own a piece of a park. You can be there and use it. But you don't have the same rights.


Want to try again?

Apply it to standing in a park and you might be closer.

Standing in a park and a guy says... "Give me money or leave". Well you don't have leave. But the choice is use and benefit a park you WANT to be at and pay... Or leave.

That's closer but not quite there.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[stealthyeliminator]

My argument I'd ridiculous? After u post this?

I would shoot a guy with a sword at my door. Your "private property" is much different then your "public property" like say.... A park?

You own a piece of a park. You can be there and use it. But you don't have the same rights.


Want to try again?

Apply it to standing in a park and you might be closer.

Standing in a park and a guy says... "Give me money or leave". Well you don't have leave. But the choice is use and benefit a park you WANT to be at and pay... Or leave.

That's closer but not quite there.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

The IRS will demand your money whether you ever step foot off private property or not, and they won't be shy about coming onto your private property to get it, either. How about YOU try again. Moreover, unless the government owns the land, they have no right to require a fee for its use. This is one of the very basic and fundamental understandings that is explained in the video that you have clearly still not watched.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

The IRS will demand your money whether you ever step foot off private property or not, and they won't be shy about coming onto your private property to get it, either. How about YOU try again. Moreover, unless the government owns the land, they have no right to require a fee for its use. This is one of the very basic and fundamental understandings that is explained in the video that you have clearly still not watched.

LOL...notice how he again tries to make it about parks! Hahahaha. He is missing the whole point that all taxes are takings of private property. He will shoot the agressor/theif but somehow by magic the government isn't the agressor/theif?

Notice how he decides not to answer any of my points in my above little rant.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

It is a CFR, state.gov tells you what you need to cross the border. This does not count the law violations that the border guards could charge you with if you refuse their "requests" to meet the requirements of crossing the border. If you respectfully decline to show the required papers then you will not be allowed to cross the border legally. Sounds to me like I am forced to stay. I must pay to have the proper papers to show. Why must I pay for that which I should not need need?

You, being a cop, could be called upon to take by violent physical force, what the state deems as proper restitution of unpaid taxes. The IRS don't give a rip about property taxes (house), personal property taxes (car), state income taxes. Now MA may have separate armed revenue agents with arrest powers, MO does not, so sheriffs and cops do the "collecting." It could get violent if a citizen refuses to hand over his private property as requested.

Never said you were evil, you said that. If you are a cop you may be called upon to take, by violent physical force, a citizen's private property because a tax was not paid. Can you opt out of such a operation? I don't know. Not sure what Walmart, Subway, Chevy.

I'm confident that local cops will have a warrant/writ that has similar wording if the state wants private property.

The US is the only country that considers you a citizen whether you move yourself and assets out and will continual to tax you.

He is evil. The enforcers of the inquest thought they were doing good , I am sure most of us would agree they were evil. If you enforce injustice, theft, locking up and extorting people who have harmed noone but have simply broke a state rule, you are engaging in evil acts, if you do so after folks have logically pointed out the evils of this you are willingly partaking in evil and hence are evil.

 

[OC for ME]

My argument I'd ridiculous? After u post this?

I would shoot a guy with a sword at my door. Your "private property" is much different then your "public property" like say.... A park?

You own a piece of a park. You can be there and use it. But you don't have the same rights.

Want to try again?

Apply it to standing in a park and you might be closer.

Standing in a park and a guy says... "Give me money or leave". Well you don't have leave. But the choice is use and benefit a park you WANT to be at and pay... Or leave.

That's closer but not quite there.

In my state, if I believe I am threatened with force up to lethal force, while in a public park, where I have a right to be, I am not compelled under MO law to retreat. Just as I do not have to retreat from my private property.

Thug: "Give me money or leave."
Me: Punch him in the nose and then call a cop.

Park Attendant or Ranger: "Give me money or leave."
Me: "Do you take debit cards?"

Cop: "Give me money or leave."
Me: "I'm outta here."

 

[Primus]

In my state, if I believe I am threatened with force up to lethal force, while in a public park, where I have a right to be, I am not compelled under MO law to retreat. Just as I do not have to retreat from my private property.

Thug: "Give me money or leave."
Me: Punch him in the nose and then call a cop.

Park Attendant or Ranger: "Give me money or leave."
Me: "Do you take debit cards?"

Cop: "Give me money or leave."
Me: "I'm outta here."

That's great... You have stand your ground. I hope your not implying that your private property are the same as public property rights based on this.

Either way... You can leave the park, house, town, county, state, country.... And no one will give a damn. To include Caesar...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[OC for ME]

That's great... You have stand your ground. I hope your not implying that your private property are the same as public property rights based on this.

Either way... You can leave the park, house, town, county, state, country.... And no one will give a damn. To include Caesar...

It is SYG, in the technical sense, on private property. On public property it is nothing more than using lawful force to stop unlawful force, the word "retreat" is not in the statute with regard to "public land" (which is also not in the statute), so technically it is not SYG in my view. Semantics I guess.

Other than the country part, you are correct, Caesar will not give a darn if I stay or leave. But, no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

LOL Not Caesar, but Oscar Wilde and his line from 'Dorian Gray' (1890), Lord Henry Wooten remarks: "It is a sad truth, but we have lost the faculty of giving lovely names to things. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for."

+1 Especially when they insist on it after refusing others help in gaining some knowledge.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

All rights are property rights.

It doesn't matter if I am on a "public lands" or not. "Public lands" in no way even fits into the meme of "we are the government" or "social contract" nonsense.

In Washington we don't have a SYG, we have the common law right to be were we lawfully are with no silly duty to retreat.

 

[Primus]

It is SYG, in the technical sense, on private property. On public property it is nothing more than using lawful force to stop unlawful force, the word "retreat" is not in the statute with regard to "public land" (which is also not in the statute), so technically it is not SYG in my view. Semantics I guess.

Other than the country part, you are correct, Caesar will not give a darn if I stay or leave. But, no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute.

I'll try to keep this discussion back in focus.

"But no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute."

Please cite. Please cite if I rescind my citizenship and leave the country for say.... Ireland.... That the us will a) continue to tax me and b) will come to Ireland to "take his tribute by violent physical force if need be".

I asked for a cite earlier about the not being able to leave the country and was told it was in the cfrs.... No much if a cite.

Trying to remain focused here.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[OC for ME]

I'll try to keep this discussion back in focus.

"But no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute."

Please cite. Please cite if I rescind my citizenship and leave the country for say.... Ireland.... That the us will a) continue to tax me and b) will come to Ireland to "take his tribute by violent physical force if need be".

I asked for a cite earlier about the not being able to leave the country and was told it was in the cfrs.... No much if a cite.

Trying to remain focused here.

I did not state that US citizenship would be revoked, you did. Moving the goal posts. I directed you to the www.state.gov website as the cite. A search for emigrate (may be a auto spell check thing with their web site) returns nothing, but, the requirements to immigrate returns many, including a link to a CFR. Your post history does not indicate, conclusively, that you actually go to the linked sites when they are provided. From this point forward search yourself, I'll get you halfway there though.

My personal experience, without a passport I would not be permitted to leave the country. If I put up a stink about it, adhering to Caesars demands, I would be arrested.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/25684322/irs-agents-raid-popular-rittenhouse-restaurant

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/...esses-With-Paramilitary-Gestapo-Style-Tactics

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I'll try to keep this discussion back in focus.

"But no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute."

Please cite. Please cite if I rescind my citizenship and leave the country for say.... Ireland.... That the us will a) continue to tax me and b) will come to Ireland to "take his tribute by violent physical force if need be".

I asked for a cite earlier about the not being able to leave the country and was told it was in the cfrs.... No much if a cite.

Trying to remain focused here.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Why don't you try focusing on the video? I still fear you haven't even watched it. The video is the point of this thread. Watch the video and address the video, or your posts are off topic.

 

[Primus]

I did not state that US citizenship would be revoked, you did. Moving the goal posts. I directed you to the www.state.gov website as the cite. A search for emigrate (may be a auto spell check thing with their web site) returns nothing, but, the requirements to immigrate returns many, including a link to a CFR. Your post history does not indicate, conclusively, that you actually go to the linked sites when they are provided. From this point forward search yourself, I'll get you halfway there though.

My personal experience, without a passport I would not be permitted to leave the country. If I put up a stink about it, adhering to Caesars demands, I would be arrested.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/25684322/irs-agents-raid-popular-rittenhouse-restaurant

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/...esses-With-Paramilitary-Gestapo-Style-Tactics

I expected better.

YOU made the claim that I quoted. So either cite something that backs it up or don't. There is no "I'll make a claim and then cite it halfway". Its not on me to search an ENTIRE website to back up YOUR claim.



Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Primus]

I'll try to keep this discussion back in focus.

"But no matter where I go Caesar will take his tribute, by violent physical force if need be, if I refuse to pay him his tribute."

Please cite. Please cite if I rescind my citizenship and leave the country for say.... Ireland.... That the us will a) continue to tax me and b) will come to Ireland to "take his tribute by violent physical force if need be".

I asked for a cite earlier about the not being able to leave the country and was told it was in the cfrs.... No much if a cite.

Trying to remain focused here.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I'll try it again...since it was put pretty clear in this post with YOUR claims/quotes.

So again.. Please back up your claims. Also, still waiting on the violent force claim about leaving the country.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk