Michael Brown unarmed shooting in Ferguson, MO

[Redbaron007]

I don't really see how that helps Wilson.

Why not.....does it not further support Wilson's claim? Do you think it hurts him?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Why not.....does it not further support Wilson's claim? Do you think it hurts him?

I think it hurts him, where is Wilson's blood? He was beaten right? Where is the powder residue on Brown's face, arms, and hands? They were supposedly in the SUV attempting to grab the gun when it was fired.

And on top of that this may be just another bunch of malarkey someone hand fed to the media without any basis in fact.

 

[Redbaron007]

I think it hurts him, where is Wilson's blood? He was beaten right? Where is the powder residue on Brown's face, arms, and hands? They were supposedly in the SUV attempting to grab the gun when it was fired.

And on top of that this may be just another bunch of malarkey someone hand fed to the media without any basis in fact.

The key......is the story accurate? The problem is, a lot of misinformation has been published....potentially put out by either side.

Your questions are good....however, the answers haven't been anonymously leaked. Who's SUV? Wilson was in a car.

 

[Redbaron007]

I think it hurts him, where is Wilson's blood? He was beaten right? Where is the powder residue on Brown's face, arms, and hands? They were supposedly in the SUV attempting to grab the gun when it was fired.

And on top of that this may be just another bunch of malarkey someone hand fed to the media without any basis in fact.

How does it hurt?

 

[WalkingWolf]

How does it hurt?

Absence of Wilson's blood, absence of gun powder residue. Brown's blood shows he was victim without the corroborating evidence that A) Wilson was attacked and injured. B) Absence of GPR that would have been on Brown if he was inside the vehicle on the first shot, most specifically his hands, arms, and head. Plus this is nothing more than a media claim until it is backed up with evidence.

Brown's blood does not clear Wilson in the least, it confirms that he shot him, handled him afterwards, then got in his car afterwards. All facts we already know.

 

[Redbaron007]

Absence of Wilson's blood, absence of gun powder residue. Brown's blood shows he was victim without the corroborating evidence that A) Wilson was attacked and injured. B) Absence of GPR that would have been on Brown if he was inside the vehicle on the first shot, most specifically his hands, arms, and head. Plus this is nothing more than a media claim until it is backed up with evidence.

Brown's blood does not clear Wilson in the least, it confirms that he shot him, handled him afterwards, then got in his car afterwards. All facts we already know.

OOpppppsss......I forgot...Wilson (LEOs) is/are guilty until proven innocent. Never mind.

 

[WalkingWolf]

OOpppppsss......I forgot...Wilson (LEOs) is/are guilty until proven innocent. Never mind.

In the court of public opinion common sense can be used to make a proper judgement. He cannot be sent to prison on that judgement. It seems you believe he is innocent just because he is a police officer despite the evidence. Hopefully you are never on the other end of a person angry and willing to shoot you no matter what.

Remember it is not always the other guy...

 

[Redbaron007]

In the court of public opinion common sense can be used to make a proper judgement. He cannot be sent to prison on that judgement. It seems you believe he is innocent just because he is a police officer despite the evidence. Hopefully you are never on the other end of a person angry and willing to shoot you no matter what.

Remember it is not always the other guy...

Innocent until proven guilty......yep.......that applies to all individuals. At this time, it is very difficult to make a common since determination since the media info has been suspect more than ever.

We are not aware of what the GJ has or hasn't seen. We are not sure the media has even presented is factual info. At this point in time, I believe he is innocent; once the facts come out, I can change my mind. For now, he gets the benefit of doubt for innocence.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Innocent until proven guilty......yep.......that applies to all individuals. At this time, it is very difficult to make a common since determination since the media info has been suspect more than ever.

We are not aware of what the GJ has or hasn't seen. We are not sure the media has even presented is factual info. At this point in time, I believe he is innocent; once the facts come out, I can change my mind. For now, he gets the benefit of doubt for innocence.

There has been a half a dozen witnesses that his hands were up to surrender. He should be prosecuted, let the jury decide. But that is not going to happen, just like it did not happen with Crawford. AFAIC there is no doubt, he killed that young man unjustly, God will judge him eventually though.

 

[OC for ME]

Is there a claim from witnesses that Brown did not have his hands up and moving towards Wilson...yepper.

No prosecution is my guess. If he does get charged it will be for misdemeanor violations, Wilson is a cop after all. We must avoid setting undesirable precedent. The upside is that the rioting will occur sooner rather than later and incident this will all fade into history.

 

[wrightme]

Absence of Wilson's blood, absence of gun powder residue. Brown's blood shows he was victim without the corroborating evidence that A) Wilson was attacked and injured. B) Absence of GPR that would have been on Brown if he was inside the vehicle on the first shot, most specifically his hands, arms, and head. Plus this is nothing more than a media claim until it is backed up with evidence.

Brown's blood does not clear Wilson in the least, it confirms that he shot him, handled him afterwards, then got in his car afterwards. All facts we already know.

What mode of injury do you know of that would have placed his blood on Brown, or in the car? Brown's injury at the car is known, and would have caused blood to be present there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/u...html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1


It isn't simply that blood was found in the car, clothes, and weapon. I will go out on a limb here and assume that the forensics team knows without question the difference between blood received at the time of the gunshots, and that placed afterwards through wiping or other means.

 

[wrightme]

In the court of public opinion common sense can be used to make a proper judgement. He cannot be sent to prison on that judgement. It seems you believe he is innocent just because he is a police officer despite the evidence. Hopefully you are never on the other end of a person angry and willing to shoot you no matter what.

Remember it is not always the other guy...

"Despite what evidence?"

 

[wrightme]

There has been a half a dozen witnesses that his hands were up to surrender. He should be prosecuted, let the jury decide. But that is not going to happen, just like it did not happen with Crawford. AFAIC there is no doubt, he killed that young man unjustly, God will judge him eventually though.

So, to you, eye witnesses are enough to present a prosecution case?

 

[OC for ME]

So, to you, eye witnesses are enough to present a prosecution case?

Yes. Unless the claim is being made that the only credible witness is the cop. Physical evidence in this case is of little use regarding how Brown achieved room temperature. The only "case" here is, was Brown getting dead justified. Brown's actual death is not really the point anymore, is it.

 

[Redbaron007]

Yes. Unless the claim is being made that the only credible witness is the cop. Physical evidence in this case is of little use regarding how Brown achieved room temperature. The only "case" here is, was Brown getting dead justified. Brown's actual death is not really the point anymore, is it.

The 'how' is simple......blood exhaustion through punctures (my conclusion). However, what took place prior to the shooting, in the car, and subsequently outside the car, potentially has some bearing on the justification. Since the media reporting has been at best poor for this incident; passing judgement may be premature. Unfortunately, WW made the determination prior to the incident, all law enforcement personnel are guilty until proven innocent.

I guess, I'm still old fashion and believe the innocence is there until proven guilty. Theories (guesses) are galore.....we'll have to wait to see which one comes close to being accurate.

 

[wrightme]

Yes. Unless the claim is being made that the only credible witness is the cop. Physical evidence in this case is of little use regarding how Brown achieved room temperature. The only "case" here is, was Brown getting dead justified. Brown's actual death is not really the point anymore, is it.

How does conflicting eye witness reports place a prosecutable case upon only the witnesses that say it one way?


The proper thing is being done; that is, present the evidence to a grand jury.


It isn't about whether 'Brown getting dead' is justified or not, it is whether the use of force was justified.

 

[Richieg150]

It isn't about whether 'Brown getting dead' is justified or not, it is whether the use of force was justified.

I keep reading and keep hearing people say, Brown was unarmed, and it really beating a dead horse, no pun intended. Just the mere fact of Browns size, made his fists weapons..... IF someone starts hitting you with their fists, are you just supposed to take it, or is deadly force justified? I looked up some FBI stats.... if you believe them or not.... 90% of those who get shot, SURVIVE. 45% of those who get beat, SURVIVE. YOUR odds are TWICE as good of surviving getting shot, as getting beat. Yes Brown was armed with weapons, his fists, and used his size to intimidate a store owner earlier in the day.
IF he assaulted the LEO, he warranted being shot, until the threat is stopped, weather it be 4 shots or 14.

All this could have been avoided if Brown and his buddy, would have kept their mouths shut, and just moved out of the middle of the street...... most streets have these things called SIDEWALKS beside them, for just that very thing, but they couldn't..... that's the mentality we are dealing with. It wasn't THEIR fault, it was some ones or any ones but theirs. Thus one of the main problems with society in general, no accountability for what I do, its not my fault, its always some one else's.

 

[The Truth]

Why not.....does it not further support Wilson's claim? Do you think it hurts him?

I'm going to maintain my opinion that this alleged evidence does not help Wilson. I never claimed it hurt him.

 

[wrightme]

I keep reading and keep hearing people say, Brown was unarmed, and it really beating a dead horse, no pun intended. Just the mere fact of Browns size, made his fists weapons..... IF someone starts hitting you with their fists, are you just supposed to take it, or is deadly force justified? I looked up some FBI stats.... if you believe them or not.... 90% of those who get shot, SURVIVE. 45% of those who get beat, SURVIVE. YOUR odds are TWICE as good of surviving getting shot, as getting beat. Yes Brown was armed with weapons, his fists, and used his size to intimidate a store owner earlier in the day.
IF he assaulted the LEO, he warranted being shot, until the threat is stopped, weather it be 4 shots or 14.
All this could have been avoided if Brown and his buddy, would have kept their mouths shut, and just moved out of the middle of the street...... most streets have these things called SIDEWALKS beside them, for just that very thing, but they couldn't..... that's the mentality we are dealing with. It wasn't THEIR fault, it was some ones or any ones but theirs. Thus one of the main problems with society in general, no accountability for what I do, its not my fault, its always some one else's.

Yes, basically to all.


I addressed specifically the comment about 'dead.'
"The only "case" here is, was Brown getting dead justified. Brown's actual death is not really the point anymore, is it."


It isn't about whether death was justified or not, that is simply how those against the PD want it looked at.

 

[The Truth]

Yes, basically to all.


I addressed specifically the comment about 'dead.'
"The only "case" here is, was Brown getting dead justified. Brown's actual death is not really the point anymore, is it."


It isn't about whether death was justified or not, that is simply how those against the PD want it looked at.

That's a weak claim to make, and does nothing to support any argument based on evidence in the case. That is called ad hominem. It might not be fallacious, that is for you to prove, but that doesn't make it a strong argument.

Sure! This has nothing to do with the fact that Brown died X number of feet away from the cruiser, witnesses claim he ran, then turned around and surrendered with his hands raised - and physical evidence does not unequivocally refute these claims - and Brown was unarmed. You're right, everyone that wants Wilson to be prosecuted is just ignorant, blind cop haters.

No, just no.