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A questions as to your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment

Beretta92FSLady

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I'm not sure how one can make the statement that "firearms laws have become more liberal over the years". When this country was formed there was NO gun control. Then a few cities and towns passed "check your firearms at with the Sheriff" type rules...interestingly, just like today, the criminals ignored those rules. With the end of the civil war came the first major restrictions on firearms. Belle Meade (spelling) TN for instance decried (still on the books as of a year or two ago as demonstrated by oneof our members) that the only way to go about the city armed was if one carried the Army and Navy model of 1841 pistol OPENLY IN THE HAND. This was intended to 1) prevent the carrying of firearms and 2) anyone brazen enough to carry one in their hand could be shot since they had a gun in their hand.

Firearms restrictions continued as a local/state issue until the unconstitutional NFA was passed and it was downhill from that point forward. Only recently have we BEGUN to turn back some of the MANY restrictions upon our RIGHT to keep AND BEAR arms.

So "over the years" restrictions became increasingly aggregious and only recently has there been a pushback and some victories. Still, most states (all but 3 or 4??) require a "permission slip" to carry concealed (an infringement) and many require a "permission slip" to purchase or own a firearm, these are infringments.

If one needs permission to exercise a right then it is not a right. I think the Constitution is quite clear that we have a RIGHT to keep and BEAR, with no arbitrary restrictions upon time and place, and therefore no "permission slip" can be justified in order for us to exercise that right.

While controversial, I posit that this RIGHT extends to all Americans and so, when a convict has served his sentence, he too has the RIGHT to keep and bear. Have we noticed the massive increase in teh criminalization of acts? The increase in the number of actions which the government dictates shall forfeit your 2nd amendment rights? The increase in non violent/non person crimes which are now felonies and thus restrict 2nd amendment rights?

It is time to recognize that the criminals are going to carry regardless of restrictions against them and that law abiding citizens (the entire remainder) must have unfettered access to the weaponry our founding fathers intended them to be able to defend themselves with. When 10 or 15 0r 20 percent of the law abiding citizens of this country are armed daily, crime will decrease as criminals discover that crime truly does not pay because they cannot determine if that "soft target" is really that soft...or if they possess the means by which to reclaim our lost civil society.

I have stated before that we have no rights under the Constitution, we merely have privileges. This belief that we are all somehow entitled to certain freedoms withing a Government structure is an unfortunate, and misplaced belief.

I agree, criminals are going to ignore laws, and do as they please. I also agree that law abiding citizens should be allow to carry, openly, whenever, wherever, and whatever they wish, well, with the exception of say, grenades, and nuclear devices that are small enough to fit in a brief case.

BTW, NFA is unConstitutional? Did the Supreme Court of the United States make a Finding with regard to the Constitutionality of the NFA?

For all of the "Constitution affirms our rights...the Constitution is an important document...the Constitution is this that, and the other" types out there who bark until they are blue in the face about the unConstitutionality of whatever Law, or law they don't agree with, one would think that those individuals would be less inclined to making statements such as "this unConstitutional Law," when the Law has either been found to be constitutional, or the Law has yet to be taken up by SCOTUS.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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This will be your undoing.

Sorry, I mistyped "within."

No, it will be all our undoing. Until individuals really acknowledge the reality that all of these so-called Freedoms, and Liberties, and Rights are merely constructs, we will always be subject to the will of those in power, and that power will be levied against the majority, because the majority do not understand, or do not want to believe that the will to power of the human will is treacherous, not good. That misplaced assumption that humans are good is what will be our undoing.
 
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rushcreek2

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The empowerment of the federal judiciary that was established by way of the ratification of the Constitutition of these United States in 1791 to DECIDE CASES arising under that constitution may necessarily entail some interpretation of that supreme United States LAW. The federal judiciary can not, may not, and does not accomplish the AMENDMENT of that LAW by virtue of its interpretive application to particular factual circumstances present in any given case brought before it. The judiciary renders a JUDGEMENT only IN A CASE. The TEXT of THE LAW is only changed through the amendment process.

Actually some things are quite ABSOLUTE. If this fact creates sufficient "discomfort" throughout the body politic , then there is the constitutional option of 3/4 of the states agreeing to amend selected portions of the text of the LAW in order to provide that the right to keep and bear arms recognized in the Second Amendment MAY very well be infringed. That hasn't occurred yet. Until it does, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED STANDS ABSOLUTE. The PEOPLE - not the courts - established and ordained that Constitution. The high powers of the federal government have hi-jacked the Constitution, so I'll not be anticipating an admission of their actions in VIOLATION of that federal LAW any time soon.

The "progressive" mantra repeated ad nauseum in our nations neo-Marxist universities - that the very Constitution from which the federal government derives its power is merely a "founding document" laying out principles, and guidelines is all part of the neo-Marxist semantics of destruction aimed at our constitutional republic.

The copies on file of MY FEDERAL, AND COLORADO CONSTITUTIONS - are ABSOLUTE.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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The empowerment of the federal judiciary that was established by way of the ratification of the Constitutition of these United States in 1791 to DECIDE CASES arising under that constitution may necessarily entail some interpretation of that supreme United States LAW. The federal judiciary can not, may not, and does not accomplish the AMENDMENT of that LAW by virtue of its interpretive application to particular factual circumstances present in any given case brought before it. The judiciary renders a JUDGEMENT only IN A CASE. The TEXT of THE LAW is only changed through the amendment process.

Actually some things are quite ABSOLUTE. If this fact creates sufficient "discomfort" throughout the body politic , then there is the constitutional option of 3/4 of the states agreeing to amend selected portions of the text of the LAW in order to provide that the right to keep and bear arms recognized in the Second Amendment MAY very well be infringed. That hasn't occurred yet. Until it does, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED STANDS ABSOLUTE. The PEOPLE - not the courts - established and ordained that Constitution. The high powers of the federal government have hi-jacked the Constitution, so I'll not be anticipating an admission of their actions in VIOLATION of that federal LAW any time soon.

The "progressive" mantra repeated ad nauseum in our nations neo-Marxist universities - that the very Constitution from which the federal government derives its power is merely a "founding document" laying out principles, and guidelines is all part of the neo-Marxist semantics of destruction aimed at our constitutional republic.

The copies on file of MY FEDERAL, AND COLORADO CONSTITUTIONS - are ABSOLUTE.

I must have missed something in reading the Second Amendment, that there was some implication, or some text that stated "shall not infringed" is absolute. It appears, by SCOTUS findings, the last two in DC, and Chicago, that "infringed" is not absolute, rather, "infringed" merely points to an all-out ban on firearms is unConstitutional, but beyond that "infringement" ceases, and we enter a place where bearing of firearms deals more in a matter of degrees to which the Constitutional 'protection' is permitted. In other words, it becomes an issue of 'how inconvenient' the bearing of firearms is made.

Please, stick with intellectual inquiry, and discourse, and leave the rhetoric where it belongs, in the trash where the masses find shelter, feast, and sh*t.
 
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rushcreek2

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The "intellectual inquiry , and discussion" at hand is in response to the OP's question -which for the sake of any "legal scholars" participating still remains :

"What do YOU believe the Second Amendment to mean?"

I stand by my "rhetoric".

The neo-Marxist screeching that emanates primarily from our universities will reach a glass-shattering crescendo as November 6, 2012 approaches. The transgressions of the high powers of the last 220 years will no longer be blindly accepted in this age of the internet. Fasten your seat-belts - because the ship's course of the last 220 years is about to do a 180.

A growing segment of the American electorate are people LIKE MYSELF who consider constitutions (state & federal) to be THE LAW- not mere "founding documents", and most certainly do expect, and demand that this right to keep and bear arms , as recognized, reserved to the people, and declared to be inviolate in the Second Amendment (shall not be infringed) to be respected as ABSOLUTE. The de facto UNCONSTITUTIONAL reality that we find ourselves surrounded by is not constructed of granite - but rather with clay & straw by sloppy builders when few citizens were paying attention.
 
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wrightme

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I must have missed something in reading the Second Amendment, that there was some implication, or some text that stated "shall not infringed" is absolute. It appears, by SCOTUS findings, the last two in DC, and Chicago, that "infringed" is not absolute, rather, "infringed" merely points to an all-out ban on firearms is unConstitutional, but beyond that "infringement" ceases, and we enter a place where bearing of firearms deals more in a matter of degrees to which the Constitutional 'protection' is permitted. In other words, it becomes an issue of 'how inconvenient' the bearing of firearms is made.
Please, stick with intellectual inquiry, and discourse, and leave the rhetoric where it belongs, in the trash where the masses find shelter, feast, and sh*t.

What in those two SCOTUS cases gives you that impression?
 

Beretta92FSLady

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The "intellectual inquiry , and discussion" at hand is in response to the OP's question -which for the sake of any "legal scholars" participating still remains :

"What do YOU believe the Second Amendment to mean?"

I stand by my "rhetoric".

The neo-Marxist screeching that emanates primarily from our universities will reach a glass-shattering crescendo as November 6, 2012 approaches. The transgressions of the high powers of the last 220 years will no longer be blindly accepted in this age of the internet. Fasten your seat-belts - because the ship's course of the last 220 years is about to do a 180.

A growing segment of the American electorate are people LIKE MYSELF who consider constitutions (state & federal) to be THE LAW- not mere "founding documents", and most certainly do expect, and demand that this right to keep and bear arms , as recognized, reserved to the people, and declared to be inviolate in the Second Amendment (shall not be infringed) to be respected as ABSOLUTE. The de facto UNCONSTITUTIONAL reality that we find ourselves surrounded by is not constructed of granite - but rather with clay & straw by sloppy builders when few citizens were paying attention.

Wrong Rush; "...questions at to your 'interpretation' of the 2nd Amendment."

I have had my seat belt on for some time - it is going to be one hell of a ride.
 

rushcreek2

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What in those two SCOTUS cases gives you that impression?

I realize that the moon is near full, and I have neglected to place my garlic neckless soaked in kerosene around my neck - but yet.... I venture out...........

"SHALL NOT" in the English lexicon is a rendering sort of likened to that proverbial "line in the sand" (Thank you William Barret Travis !)

For those brought up during, or after the "sixties" SHALL NOT means essentially that the subject behavior that you "SHALL NOT " engage in is ... well, a.... NO-NO ! (Spank, spank !!!)

Get it ?
 

Beretta92FSLady

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What in those two SCOTUS cases gives you that impression?

[h=1]McDonald v. Chicago[/h]http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2009/2009_08_1521

Read, read, read. I should point out that a ban on firearms was struck down. The red tape that the state can be such that it makes it very difficult for the individual to acquire a firearm, but not impossible. Basically, there can not be an outright ban, but the state, and city (if state law allows) can make it one hell of a pain in the ass, but not impossible to acquire.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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I realize that the moon is near full, and I have neglected to place my garlic neckless soaked in kerosene around my neck - but yet.... I venture out...........

"SHALL NOT" in the English lexicon is a rendering sort of likened to that proverbial "line in the sand" (Thank you William Barret Travis !)

For those brought up during, or after the "sixties" SHALL NOT means essentially that the subject behavior that you "SHALL NOT " engage in is ... well, a.... NO-NO ! (Spank, spank !!!)

Get it ?

Holy hell-fire. I agree, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, meaning, an outright ban is unConstitutional. I think we half agree on some thing, mainly, the text of the Constitution, and that an all-out ban is unConstitututional.
 

slowfiveoh

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The question of the status of human beings and their natural rights must be diverted to the beginning of our natural development, and our overall natural state.

Whether one believes in evolution, the big bang, or creation (free will), mankinds existence at default must be the evaluated metric for said beings natural state of existence. That is to say, without the presence of government or other social units to kowtow to, or otherwise be oppressed by, the lowest natural integer is one. It is at this level we understand the default rights existing in every human being. This is a simple, natural fact. It is this simple fact, that leads to the source of responsibility for the individual.

Anything you add past this point is dismissive of the natural state of being! This is a fact!


The founders, in their intellectual, well-educated, and learned capacity, measured carefully the trade-off between the creation of society and the freedom of man. It is to the lowest responsible denominator that they have yielded. It is why this country is founded on the basis of individual rights, as opposed to the collective. The "collective" has been addressed in society, but the common denominator in all socialist countries is the rise to power of specially interest parties with their own agendas and/or plans. Our society only leans back towards socialism when specialized groups who are chock full of emotive extroverts, deem that the "social" aspect of life is the most fulfilling, and/or rewarding.

Not only is this train of thought flawed, but it actually leans a bit towards mental instability.


To understand this phenomenon, one must study human psychology. It is well understand that human beings have a mental process leaning towards creation of collectives. It is also well understood that there are different psychological profiles comprising the different "clicks" in society. These can be loosely defined using a plethora of psychological profiling tools, but that list and the methodology applied is far too extensive to cover here. Ask your Psychiatrist or Psychologist how long it took them to get their degrees, and you will get an idea of how expansive this list is.


The problem in modern society does come down to what one would call "emotive extroverts". Let me give you a brief, summarized profile of an emotional extrovert, through term definition as applied to an individual.

Emotive: An individual who centers their entire well-being off of emotion. It is the smiles, giggles, frowns, and "touchy feely" sensations that drive their sense of "wrong" and "right". They will assess all problems in their lives first and foremost by emotional validation. "How does this make me feel?" The problems with this mentality should be extremely apparent.

Extrovert: An individual who does not center their self worth on internalized justification, but rather on the acceptance and purview of their peers and superiors. "Wow, I feel like my boss hates me. I don't know why he is so mean!"



Now, here is the disclaimer.

Not everybody who is an emotional extrovert is a person who makes blind assessments based on emotion alone. Do not take my comments to be hateful or full of vitriol. I have no ill will towards those who are emotive extroverts. (So please don't go crying into a bucket because of my education on this matter, lol.) However, a large portion lean so heavily towards their emotional judgement and the acceptance of their peers, that their decision making process is based heavily off of this metric. This leads extensively to these emotional extroverts, forming their own social circle, and basing their cultural and political actions off of the aforementioned emotional, and social direction at the support of their peers. This is the foundational basis for their actions and arguments.


The problem is that this obviously is a suckerpunch to logic itself. Emotion is a driving response to our natural evolution (or exercising of free will if you are religious), but it should not, and for the sake of progression, cannot be the basis for which we make our logical and rational decisions.

Here is a thought exercise:

"I feel for all of the people in this country who don't have medical care! As part of our party agenda, let's introduce a bill on all Americans for the creation of a compulsory healthcare structure so that all Americans can be covered!".

Then if you speak out against the obvious violation and usurpation of the commerce clause, you are accused of being a "heartless corporate thug", in such an emotive fashion.



This emotional existence allows one to ditch all adherence to logical principle, and instead, defer to the socially accepted perspective of your peers.


Sound like anybody in this thread?

Read closely.....
 

Beretta92FSLady

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Anything you add past this point is dismissive of the natural state of being! This is a fact!


Good grief, any person that insists on bold-typing, and underlining that some thing is a fact should immediately be under extensive scrutiny, to start, the very statement that they are bold-typing. Natural State of Being as you have asserting, I suppose it can be treated as a fact.

The founders, in their intellectual, well-educated, and learned capacity, measured carefully the trade-off between the creation of society and the freedom of man. It is to the lowest responsible denominator that they have yielded. It is why this country is founded on the basis of individual rights, as opposed to the collective. The "collective" has been addressed in society, but the common denominator in all socialist countries is the rise to power of specially interest parties with their own agendas and/or plans. Our society only leans back towards socialism when specialized groups who are chock full of emotive extroverts, deem that the "social" aspect of life is the most fulfilling, and/or rewarding.

So, Freedom's end result, basically, its intended application was formed by compromise? Thank you, I agree. And this whole time I was under the impression that you actually believed that Freedom is absolute. Freedom is a construct.

The rest of this quote regarding Socialism is, well, rhetoric.

* I narrow my response for the sake of the thread.
 
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We-the-People

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The question posed is "What is your interpretation of the 2nd amendment".

The question is not "what have the powers that be castrated the 2nd amendment into?"

The federal government has 18 enumerated powers granted it by the Constitution. Unfortunately our three branches have conspired to expand those powers until, as they are arguing today, there is nothing that is not within their powers to regulate.

The federal government in particular has a long history of usurping its powers, backed by the U.S. Supreme Courts "interpretations". Prior to the 1860's these usurpations of power were minimal, but still usurpations. Then Lincoln unconstitutionally engaged in a war of aggression against those states that had decided the federal government was overstepping its authority. This war of aggression was about states rights versus the ability of the federal government to usurp their sovereignty. It was about the federal government not losing the 75% of its revenues that the southern states provided and with which the federal government subsidized the northern states. Rather than serve the soverign states, the federals decided that they were the supreme power and would be obeyed, regardless of the constitutionality of their actions.

After Lincolns sucessful ignoring of the Constitution, it only got worse and now we find ourselves at the brink of the entire experiment failing because of another major usurper and his compatriots in the legislative branch, with the help of the judicial branch. Gone are the "checks and balances".

Obama's press secretary the other day said (from memory so may not be exact) "there is a reason that there are separate branches of government with different amounts of powers".....AMOUNTS??? They are co-equal Mr. Presidents mouthpiece, with different areas of power that are checked by the other co-equal branches.

WHY did the house Repubs go to the White House when "summoned"? I would have said "you don't summon us Mr. President, you can politely invite but you shall not summon us. If you'd like to speak to us, we'll be in XXX office at XXXX time, you are welcome to join us".

:banghead:
 

Beretta92FSLady

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The question posed is "What is your interpretation of the 2nd amendment".

The question is not "what have the powers that be castrated the 2nd amendment into?"

The federal government has 18 enumerated powers granted it by the Constitution. Unfortunately our three branches have conspired to expand those powers until, as they are arguing today, there is nothing that is not within their powers to regulate.

The federal government in particular has a long history of usurping its powers, backed by the U.S. Supreme Courts "interpretations". Prior to the 1860's these usurpations of power were minimal, but still usurpations. Then Lincoln unconstitutionally engaged in a war of aggression against those states that had decided the federal government was overstepping its authority. This war of aggression was about states rights versus the ability of the federal government to usurp their sovereignty. It was about the federal government not losing the 75% of its revenues that the southern states provided and with which the federal government subsidized the northern states. Rather than serve the soverign states, the federals decided that they were the supreme power and would be obeyed, regardless of the constitutionality of their actions.

After Lincolns sucessful ignoring of the Constitution, it only got worse and now we find ourselves at the brink of the entire experiment failing because of another major usurper and his compatriots in the legislative branch, with the help of the judicial branch. Gone are the "checks and balances".

Obama's press secretary the other day said (from memory so may not be exact) "there is a reason that there are separate branches of government with different amounts of powers".....AMOUNTS??? They are co-equal Mr. Presidents mouthpiece, with different areas of power that are checked by the other co-equal branches.

WHY did the house Repubs go to the White House when "summoned"? I would have said "you don't summon us Mr. President, you can politely invite but you shall not summon us. If you'd like to speak to us, we'll be in XXX office at XXXX time, you are welcome to join us".

:banghead:

Yes, this structure is just one big "experiment," as you call it.

They should have stated different roles as it pertains to Constitutional powers provided to the three branches of Government.
 

slowfiveoh

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Good grief, any person that insists on bold-typing, and underlining that some thing is a fact should immediately be under extensive scrutiny, to start, the very statement that they are bold-typing. Natural State of Being as you have asserting, I suppose it can be treated as a fact.



Do you intend to oppose the natural state of man as independently free?

Present your argument without the inclusion of societal murk, as anthropological records clearly indicate early humanity as being small families wherein individual members could leave at any time, via exercise of their own free will. This is established fact.

Prove otherwise, or forever hold your peace.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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Do you intend to oppose the natural state of man as independently free?

Present your argument without the inclusion of societal murk, as anthropological records clearly indicate early humanity as being small families wherein individual members could leave at any time, via exercise of their own free will. This is established fact.

Prove otherwise, or forever hold your peace.


I will gladly respond in detail, but you first must elaborate on what you mean by the words "independently free." You may want to re-word "independently free," unless you are fine with seeming to imply that 'independently' is some thing other than 'free', and that 'free' is just that, free. If you follow me?

I can respond as you requested if you outline for me what you mean by the terms: 'independently', and 'free'.

Also, the concept of individuals, as you assert it relating to factual anthropological findings (records) seems to be in contradiction with what you go on to state that individuals are part of families (?), but are free to leave at any time. How is it that the individual even became part of this thing called "family?" Perhaps a natural inclination of humans? The individual's natural tendency toward forming collectives - rather socialistic, wouldn't you say? Is there a reason for such an innate inclination? Survival? Two heads are better than one? The individual leaving the family of their own free will is rather presumptuous. How have you concluded that the individual is leaving of their own free will, by the model where a family allows for the individual to exercise said free will without retribution? Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise, meaning, the individual does not purely exercise their free will simply as extension of their conscious realization that there is an act, the act of free will, that they are optioned to take.

It would be the same as an individual who will inevitably die being offered three options: hanging, shooting, stabbing; the individual chooses between the three options, stabbing. The individual is stabbed until dead, then Slow turns to the crowd, and exclaims, "they chose to be stabbed until dead." Not exactly, the individual did not choose to die, they merely chose between the options available to them as to how they would die. The same goes for leaving the family. The family allows for the individual to leave at their will, but the individual leaves because they have determined there is a greater value in leaving the family, than with staying with the family. The individual does not exercise free will, they choose the lesser of two evils.
 
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slowfiveoh

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I will gladly respond in detail, but you first must elaborate on what you mean by the words "independently free." You may want to re-word "independently free," unless you are fine with seeming to imply that 'independently' is some thing other than 'free', and that 'free' is just that, free. If you follow me?

I can respond as you requested if you outline for me what you mean by the terms: 'independently', and 'free'.

Also, the concept of individuals, as you assert it relating to factual anthropological findings (records) seems to be in contradiction with what you go on to state that individuals are part of families (?), but are free to leave at any time. How is it that the individual even became part of this thing called "family?" Perhaps a natural inclination of humans? The individual's natural tendency toward forming collectives - rather socialistic, wouldn't you say? Is there a reason for such an innate inclination? Survival? Two heads are better than one? The individual leaving the family of their own free will is rather presumptuous. How have you concluded that the individual is leaving of their own free will, by the model where a family allows for the individual to exercise said free will without retribution? Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise, meaning, the individual does not purely exercise their free will simply as extension of their conscious realization that there is an act, the act of free will, that they are optioned to take.

It would be the same as an individual who will inevitably die being offered three options: hanging, shooting, stabbing; the individual chooses between the three options, stabbing. The individual is stabbed until dead, then Slow turns to the crowd, and exclaims, "they chose to be stabbed until dead." Not exactly, the individual did not choose to die, they merely chose between the options available to them as to how they would die. The same goes for leaving the family. The family allows for the individual to leave at their will, but the individual leaves because they have determined there is a greater value in leaving the family, than with staying with the family. The individual does not exercise free will, they choose the lesser of two evils.


This is why nobody can take you seriously.

#1. The presence of a social collection is nothing more than a survival instinct meant to increase survivability. It has no bearing on an individuals choice to, or not to belong to a collective. There is no contradiction there. Just a confused girl with comprehension problems attempting to create a paradox that is non-existent. The presence of a social commune does not by default declare ownership over an individual. Please take a class on critical thinking. You need it sorely.

#2. You are incompetent, and unable to grasp the separation between an ingrained instinct for social interaction, and freedom of will. You create your own paradox where you believe the individual is at all times, no matter what, bound to another. This is proven patently false as a matter of established science and record. You then create only the scenarios which validate your limited scope of opinion, which is rather lacking in abstract thought.



I cannot fathom how it must be living with such a limited perspective as yours. I am truly, and sincerely sorry for your lack of abstract thought, and inability to process several layers of information. I mean that with sincerity.



You do at times crack me up with how infantile some of your commentary is, or more precisely, how short-sighted it is.

Beretta, people often leave their social structure, in a free society, of their own will. You specify various reasons as if they were not made from the individual perspective, via personal responsibility, which is rather comical on your behalf. It lacks perspective. It also highlights your meager postings, and other various shortcomings.

Many men and women up and leave their families for varying reasons. Some people have been gone for years without ever seeing their families. Some people elect, of their own free will, to live on their own, out in the wilderness.

These are all, like it or not, choices that reflect their own personal responsibility.



My previous statement went into the psychiatry involved in your limited drivel, and why it lacks the articulated, educated response of men and women of science. Your retorts are almost always devoid of critical thought, basic college history education, and a distinct lack of study on your own behalf. That's a problem Sara Mae. You need to lean less on your emotions, and more on logic and critical thinking.

Right now, I promise you you are leaning on "what feels right", and what you deem to be "acceptable" to your peers.

It is in your vocabulary, sentence structure, and chosen focal points.



Please, before you further embarrass yourself, take some classes.


Opinion and emotions aren't fact, no matter how many times you spin them. No matter how much emotion you attach to them Beretta.
 
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slowfiveoh

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Nice, we both agree on some thing. My emotive friend.

Your attempt to invoke emotion is comical to me. Please. Keep up the meaninglessness. :)


Any articulation to substantiate your points, specifically, with scientific study, will be reviewed with sincerity. Thus far, not in this thread, nor any other, have you ever offered historic perspective and/or documentation to substantiate your claims.

I poke at your emotive side because its the flaming, hemorrhaging, bulging basis for all of your replies and retorts. Keep it up!


By the way. Did religious people invent "Personal responsibility", or not?

You have failed utterly to ever clarify this point. ;) Spin it kiddo. Spin it.
 
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