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Semi-Negative LEO Encounter

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Cop #1: "What do you know about it our training?"

Me: "I know about it. That should be enough. Did you get it?"

Cop #1: "Sure, we got it, but I still think it's stupid to be doing that."

Cop #2: "Wow, he's a cutie. What's his name?"

Me, to my 2 month old son: "Don't say a word without a lawyer, son." I thought that might get a laugh out of them, but it didn't. Oh well.

Cop #1: "What do you do for a living, anyway? Are you in security or some crap?"

Me: "My job is none of your business, officer."

Cop #2: "We're just curious, is all."

Me: "That's fine. I just don't talk about my work with people I don't know."

Cop #2: "But, we're cops. You have no reason not to trust us."

Me: "Did you really just use the 'Trust us we're the police' line on me? After your partner tried to lie to me and tell me I had to conceal?"

Cop #1: "Smart guy, huh? Yeah, you look REAL smart, with your pot belly, and baby stroller, eating ice cream with a big old gun strapped to your hip. You wanna carry a gun? Try losing weight and becoming a cop, smart guy."

Me: "Oh, so your department put a freeze on hiring Neandertals?"

Cop #2: "There's no reason for the attitude, mister."

Me: "Tell your pet caveman that."

Cop #1: "You're real fuckin' funny, you know that? You keep on being funny, you ******* idiot. Next time you need to call 911, make sure you tell the operator something real funny. Maybe your jokes will help save your life, you fuckin' jerkoff. Have a nice fuckin' day."

I sat there as they stomped off. My ice cream was starting to melt...

Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

I intend to keep it that way.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

I intend to keep it that way.


I would consider it an insult to be directly lied to. The first officer knew(as he admitted) that it was legal to OC and blatantly lied to the OP because HE thought it was stupid. To put it another way, the officer knew the law, didn't agree with it and lied to try and have things his way. Is that your definition of "serve"? It is not mine.

I also would like to point out that the Supreme Court of this land has ruled that no Law Enforcement Officer is under any requirement to "protect" you. The simple fact is they know it too. I was amazed when I first found this out(after years of thinking the were in fact there to "protect" the citizenry) and started asking the various LEO I knew it they were aware of this. They all informed me that they were. They don't mind letting people think they will charge in to protect you, but look at places like Columbine, where they waited over 45 min. to enter.

Just out of curiosity, Sir. What part of "protect" or "serve" includes hurling insults and vulgarity at the citizenry?
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
To expand upon what someone else told you:

  1. Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
  2. Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
  3. Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.
When your life is in danger right now, either protect yourself or just don't get protected at all.

Anybody who tells you different is a liar.

Of course one of the cops was a liar above and beyond any of that. He deserves no respect, only contempt.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
I am so looking forward to hearing that recording...
Great way to keep cool & make them lose theirs. Very unprofessional of them.
And nice choice of ice cream. :D

MilProGuy said:
I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
Leaving aside the Hollywood "protect & serve" BS, which has been addressed by people far better than I...

If those officers knew what they were doing (knew how to do their job, remembered the law - that's only been around, what, 15 years now? - remembered the training memo, etc.) they wouldn't even have approached the OP other than for some friendly conversation & digs about whose pistol was better.

If an officer is insulted or infuriated by a citizen standing up for his rights, or reminding the officer of training he's obviously forgotten, it's the officer's problem.

For such a mild rebuke, he certainly had quite a temper. Wonder what he'd do if he was really insulted? Shoot someone?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!!! That was GREAT!! Put their lying asses in their place!

I wouldn't bother the Chief. I'd take the encounter, any recordings, etc., and give it to the lead attorneys in the Dickson case. I'm no expert, but I think you just established a pattern of abuse.

And, don't forget to point out that cop2 did nothing to stop or correct cop1's lies or unprofessional, illegal behavior. Especially if in telling you to conceal the gun, he used an authoritative or official tone of voice.

Also, this could have been attempted entrapment. He had no idea whether you had an LTCF on you. And, you can bet from his real attitude that surfaced, had you actually concealed at his orders, his next line would have been, "Don't move! Lemme see your LTCF." Of course, if you didn't have one on you, then you're arrested, and his story changes to, "We saw a bulge, so we decided to investigate with a consensual contact." I would complain to high heaven about attempted official oppression.

At best he was telling you to do something potentially illegal without first finding out whether you had an LTCF. I'd pointedly ask, "Do your cops prevent or encourage crime?"

Also, this could have been a tactic to get your identity. If you concealed, and had an LTCF, he would then have your identity to check and add to a field contact database.
 
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HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

If you could please share with the class HOW exactly the two police officers in question were serving and protecting during this encounter?
 

jahwarrior

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
393
Location
, ,
Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

I intend to keep it that way.

no disrespect was taken.

there is one point i'd like to make, however. you stated that in your 65 years on this Earth, you've never felt disrespected by LEO. that is, quite simply, amazing. you also stated that you've never been arrested, or seen the inside of a jail cell. i can kind of understand why you'd feel the way you do, and that's great. however, not everyone shares your experiences, especially not me. i have been disrespected, abused, and otherwise humiliated by the police; i suppose one could say that's par for the course for many miorities in this country, unfortunately. i also have been arrested, and have seen the inside of a jail cell.

i am tired of it. i grew up in fear of the badge; growing up in NYC, i've seen firsthand the abuses of power that LEO regular commit, without fear of punishment. the country never paid attention until the Rodney King verdict in Los Angeles, when the officers in question were acquitted of any wrongdoing. at that point, people had finally had enough, and rioted, nearly destroying the city. so, the media finally acknowledged that the police were capable of corruption, but it still happens on a regular basis. everyday, i read or hear about some LEO who commits acts of intimidation, harrassment, assault, property theft/damage, perjury, extortion, drug dealing, sexual misconduct, or murder. as it happens, much of it happens right here in PA, specifically in Philadelphia.

like those people in L.A., i'm tired of it. i'm not going to live in fear of someone simply because they think their badge grants them powers above that of an ordinary citizen. they need reminding that they serve us, that they should live in fear of us, not the other way around. it's not my duty to respect them, it's their job to respect me, and not lie to me, or insult me, even if i committed a crime.

sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.
 
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SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
Jah, don't let this MilProGuy get under your skin. I've seen several of his posts and all are antagonistic. I don't like to cast aspersions, but this guy is starting to really act like something that hangs out under bridges and chases billy goats. I am starting to wonder if Eric is back. I think you handled yourself well. Best to you and your son. Teach him well.

By the By. I'm a rural Midwest boy, does Carvel have any caramel flavors? mmmm caramel aaaagggghhhh.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.

I'm pleased with the OCer's tactics and the way it turned out.

We should point out that this only works with a certain category of cops. The whole thing could have raced south right into the gutter, too, if it had been some really bad cops. Meaning, its dangerous to antagonize cops.

The legal system is heavily tilted in their favor. Arrest, beating, and tazering could have been the outcome. Also, I think we have two reports of nerve damage from maliciously tightened hand-cuffs.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
i don't necessarily see these as bad apples, this could have been the characteristics of the whole bushel . standard practice is to resort to trying to anger the subject to incite him/her to do something wrong

good job JAHWARRIOR72 i have found when you hit them with knowledge the general sheeple would not know it throws them off balance.

BTW, what was the "old country buffet" incident?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
i don't necessarily see these as bad apples, this could have been the characteristics of the whole bushel . standard practice is to resort to trying to anger the subject to incite him/her to do something wrong.

Yes, I had forgotten about that. This tactic is discussed a little more in the book Arrest Proof Yourself, by former cop Dale Carson.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
What empresses me the most after the controlled conduct of the OP and the thoroughness of his responses w/recording, is the maturing of posters on OCDO. It would have in the not so distant past, have provided the impetus for hard line cop bashing - this has not been the case here or anytime recently.

There are bad apples to be found in many barrels and the need to be treated/culled individually. Even when responding to pro LEO posters, the mature and effective response has been given.

You all collectively and individually provide excellent models for those yet to join us in this quest for freedom and the RKBA as is our birthright.

After all of these years, I am still learning and I thank each and everyone of you for being such adept instructors and mentors.

BTW - Can't wait to hear the audio myself, whenever the time is right.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

I believe that the concept of casting pearls before swine also applies to affording pleasantness to those who deserve a good kick in the teeth.

The LEO was trying to pick a fight with the citizen who dared to show the world that carrying a gun doesn't make one special.

It seems like a classic case of Good Cop, Bad Cop. How much of it was an act? #2 seemed to act like he didn't know what was going on... Bad acting job...
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
Most LEO's absolutely HATE being shown when they are wrong.

They go about their day thinking they are right about everything and 99.99999% of the population will do anything a LEO tells them.

So when one of us stands our ground, the LEO reverts to childish name calling and if he had the opportunity will sometimes go to violence or commit a wrongful arrest.
 

jpjpjp

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
23
Location
upper, bucks county,pa
thanx.

no disrespect was taken.

there is one point i'd like to make, however. you stated that in your 65 years on this Earth, you've never felt disrespected by LEO. that is, quite simply, amazing. you also stated that you've never been arrested, or seen the inside of a jail cell. i can kind of understand why you'd feel the way you do, and that's great. however, not everyone shares your experiences, especially not me. i have been disrespected, abused, and otherwise humiliated by the police; i suppose one could say that's par for the course for many miorities in this country, unfortunately. i also have been arrested, and have seen the inside of a jail cell.

i am tired of it. i grew up in fear of the badge; growing up in NYC, i've seen firsthand the abuses of power that LEO regular commit, without fear of punishment. the country never paid attention until the Rodney King verdict in Los Angeles, when the officers in question were acquitted of any wrongdoing. at that point, people had finally had enough, and rioted, nearly destroying the city. so, the media finally acknowledged that the police were capable of corruption, but it still happens on a regular basis. everyday, i read or hear about some LEO who commits acts of intimidation, harrassment, assault, property theft/damage, perjury, extortion, drug dealing, sexual misconduct, or murder. as it happens, much of it happens right here in PA, specifically in Philadelphia.

like those people in L.A., i'm tired of it. i'm not going to live in fear of someone simply because they think their badge grants them powers above that of an ordinary citizen. they need reminding that they serve us, that they should live in fear of us, not the other way around. it's not my duty to respect them, it's their job to respect me, and not lie to me, or insult me, even if i committed a crime.

sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.
thanx for sharing that thought as it is without question the right thing to do and should be done that way every time a neg encounter shows its ugly head. and likewise ,anything positive should be commended,and encouraged.never cave in to fear or intimadation. thanx again.
 
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