The code doesn't say "the secure areas". It says "...to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth"
Citation: http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-283.1/
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NoVA (Northern Virginia) - OC reports
- Thread starter Citizen
- Start date
The code doesn't say "the secure areas". It says "...to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth"
Citation: http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-283.1/
homestar
Regular Member
I guess my question was more about what legally defines a courthouse, whether it's strictly the controlled space or if it's the building itself. The citation doesn't really clarify that for me.
t11spanner
Regular Member
On Wednesday, Shoppers @ Seven Corners, Rite Aid Route 7 near Glen Carlyn, Batteries Plus @ Bradlee Shopping Center, Total Wine and More Little River TPK/Landmark. As normal, no issues. Did look at the front windows and doors of the ABC store down the sidewalk from Total Wine and the only sign in the door/window was warning against being under 21.
Carl
Carl
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Most would say the building... my attorney also says any building where a judge is processing cases.. so if a library was used while renovations were being done to his courthouse, the library, while processing cases, would be a courthouse while the judge was there.
A judge also has the authority to create "rules" for his courthouse grounds. I don't know if I would challenge them as it might be one of his friends that hears your case.
Ed
homestar
Regular Member
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
So nice of them to threaten a citizen with arrest when he makes a sincere inquiry.
I did not OC today.
JamesCanby
Activist Member
Interesting. I went into the Alexandria City Courthouse to get my CHP re-issued due to an address change. While putting my briefcase on the scanner belt and before entering the magnetometer, the officer told me to remove my belt. I pulled aside my jacket and said, "Um, it's holding up my firearm." No 
or alarm, he simply said to walk around the magnetometer and place my firearm in one of the lockers, lock the door and take the key with me. Then I walked through the magnetometer, collected my briefcase and saw the clerk. On exiting, I collected my firearm and, as I was departing, the officer asked about the make and model and simply said, "Nice piece. Have a great day."
It's amazing the difference location -- and the training the officers receive -- makes.
or alarm, he simply said to walk around the magnetometer and place my firearm in one of the lockers, lock the door and take the key with me. Then I walked through the magnetometer, collected my briefcase and saw the clerk. On exiting, I collected my firearm and, as I was departing, the officer asked about the make and model and simply said, "Nice piece. Have a great day."It's amazing the difference location -- and the training the officers receive -- makes.
homestar
Regular Member
Interesting. I went into the Alexandria City Courthouse to get my CHP re-issued due to an address change. While putting my briefcase on the scanner belt and before entering the magnetometer, the officer told me to remove my belt. I pulled aside my jacket and said, "Um, it's holding up my firearm." No
It's amazing the difference location -- and the training the officers receive -- makes.
That would have been a more pleasant experience, for sure. I would have had a much different outcome if I carried into the building that day.
bigphil
Newbie
Howdy Y'all
New to the NoVA area, I am ex military and have my CHP from Florida. Currently working on getting my VA resident permit but they say that can take 45 days. I always have my firearm concealed everywhere I go around here, but after Feb 1st, I will no longer be able to conceal. Planning on Open carrying until the VA permit comes in. I have been doing tons of research, and being the law abiding citizen that I am, I want to be sure I am carrying with in the scope of the law.
I've read most of this post, not all 253 pages, but skimmed quite a bit. Can any one shed some light on the legal side of this? Or at least point me in the right direction? I had read the VA Statue 18.2-287.4 that says open carrying a loaded firearm is illegal in pretty much all of NoVA. Maybe I am reading it wrong. Seems like you all open carry quite a bit. Just want to be sure I know exactly what the law says before I do it. Coming from the military I learned that if you are doing something that seems wrong, just know the instruction and nobody can f**k with you. Just want to cover my own a**.
I appreciate the input guys. Not looking to open carry my AR just open carry my daily Taurus .40 until I get my CHP, as most of you guys know, this isn't the greatest area in Virginia and I just feel better with protection.
Thanks,
Phil
New to the NoVA area, I am ex military and have my CHP from Florida. Currently working on getting my VA resident permit but they say that can take 45 days. I always have my firearm concealed everywhere I go around here, but after Feb 1st, I will no longer be able to conceal. Planning on Open carrying until the VA permit comes in. I have been doing tons of research, and being the law abiding citizen that I am, I want to be sure I am carrying with in the scope of the law.
I've read most of this post, not all 253 pages, but skimmed quite a bit. Can any one shed some light on the legal side of this? Or at least point me in the right direction? I had read the VA Statue 18.2-287.4 that says open carrying a loaded firearm is illegal in pretty much all of NoVA. Maybe I am reading it wrong. Seems like you all open carry quite a bit. Just want to be sure I know exactly what the law says before I do it. Coming from the military I learned that if you are doing something that seems wrong, just know the instruction and nobody can f**k with you. Just want to cover my own a**.
I appreciate the input guys. Not looking to open carry my AR just open carry my daily Taurus .40 until I get my CHP, as most of you guys know, this isn't the greatest area in Virginia and I just feel better with protection.
Thanks,
Phil
homestar
Regular Member
Hey bigphil,
Welcome! Hope you enjoy your new home. Not sure what county you're applying to, but mine didn't take more than a week or two. As far as the regulation you cited, it only prevents open carrying with a magazine holding more than 20 rounds (unless/until you hold a CHP) in specific areas. Carry less than that and you're okay. I'm not a lawyer, but re-read that statute and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. Again, welcome from Loudoun County.
Wolf_shadow
Activist Member
Welcome BigPhil As homestar stated 18.2-287.4 only applies to carrying a magazine of 20 rounds or more.
bigphil
Newbie
I am applying in Fairfax county. Glad to know that it only took a few weeks hope mine does the same. My Florida permit took 9 days to arrive. I was pretty impressed with that.
That's the conclusion I came to with that statute also, but I do know how some times the law can be ambiguous depending on who is reading it (especially firearms laws) that's why I wanted to double check with people who open carry all the time. I might be interpreting the law differently than ultra liberal Hillary Clinton supporter who calls the cops on me. Just want to be sure that I am in the right.
My Taurus .40 only holds 6 +1 so I should be fine in that regard.
Thanks for the input bud!
homestar
Regular Member
VA OC - NoVA (Northern Virginia)
The only one that I've found to have notable ambiguity around here is church carry.
A former attorney general named Cuccinelli issued an opinion that self defense satisfies the "good and sufficient reason" part. But it's technically just an opinion. I conceal in church and would prefer not to be a test case on that issue.
The only one that I've found to have notable ambiguity around here is church carry.
A former attorney general named Cuccinelli issued an opinion that self defense satisfies the "good and sufficient reason" part. But it's technically just an opinion. I conceal in church and would prefer not to be a test case on that issue.
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There is no law in Virginia that makes open carry legal. It is the absence of any law making OC illegal that leaves it de facto legal.
Welcome to Virginia, BigPhil.
I haven't posted anything recently. So here it goes:
Guapos, U-haul- Manassas Park
Ikea, Chick-fil-a, Lowes, Tropical Smoothie- Woodbridge
Walmart and Starbucks- Centreville
Target, Five Guys, Homegoods, Wegmanns- Gainesville
McKay's Books and Marshalls, Elite Shooting Sports, 7-11, Harris Teeter- Manassas
Walmart, Cracker Barrel, Lowes- Front Royal
All is well. Wishing everyone on OCDO a happy and healthy 2016!
I haven't posted anything recently. So here it goes:
Guapos, U-haul- Manassas Park
Ikea, Chick-fil-a, Lowes, Tropical Smoothie- Woodbridge
Walmart and Starbucks- Centreville
Target, Five Guys, Homegoods, Wegmanns- Gainesville
McKay's Books and Marshalls, Elite Shooting Sports, 7-11, Harris Teeter- Manassas
Walmart, Cracker Barrel, Lowes- Front Royal
All is well. Wishing everyone on OCDO a happy and healthy 2016!
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
This is also one of the fundamental concepts of government by the people.
No right is held more sacred or more carefully guarded by the common law than than the right of all individuals to the control and possession of their own persons, free from all restraint and interference unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Company vs Botsford.
If there is no clear and unquestionable authority of law, then police, judge, bureaucrat must not restrain or interfere with the individual.
A couple years ago there was a big legal fight in a Midwestern state. A fella threw out of his house a cop who was trying to enter without a warrant and who was mistaken abut his authority to enter. If I recall, the state legislature later even tried to pass a bill saying it was illegal to resist even a cop who was wrong on his law when trying to warrantlessly enter a home. A commentator pointed out that had such law passed it would have fundamentally altered the relationship between the individual and the state. If the individual must submit to government--even when it is wrong about the law--then government is necessarily greater than the people, not their servant.
homestar
Regular Member
Saw an open carrier of a glock 19 last night in a Giant in Ashburn. I had a similar setup under my coat. No one ran for the hills. They were all too busy buying all the bread within 100 miles.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Well, I had my first negative encounter in so many years I've lost count. It's been a couple days now, but it was fairly amusing so I figured I'd share here (to the best of my recollection).
My woman and I were in McDonalds (Burke Centre Parkway) getting lunch and, in her case, filling out a job application. I decided to go sit and eat while she conversed with the on-duty manager. Not halfway through my first burger, I notice that there's a guy talking to the manager and, as he's growing visibly more agitated, I begin to hear what he's saying: "There's a man over there with a gun, and I'm very offended by it. You know, I carried a gun in combat..." (By his age I'd guess Vietnam, if not Korea).
The manager seemed confused and unsure how to respond, and this guy is all set to cause a scene because he's not getting instant gratification, so I go against my initial judgment and approach to have a few words with the two gentlemen. I don't remember my exact words, but I started with something like, "You know, everyone seems to be just eating their food except you, who seems intent on causing a scene. If my lawful behavior bothers you that much, you can always leave." To which he responds indicating that he will leave, but only if the manager won't eject me.
At this point the manager asks me to take my gun to the car. I told him, "no, sir, I can't do that. It isn't safe to leave my gun unattended, especially after attention has been drawn to it. If you'd like me to leave I'll do that, but you should know that it's totally cool for me to be armed according to state law, and it's also in accordance with McDonald's corporate policy that I be allowed to stay."
At this point the angry guy starts berating me, asking me what I'm scared of, why I need a gun, etc. I try to convey that it's not a matter of fear, and I could explain if he would stop putting words in my mouth, but at this point he's visibly angry (quivering and stuttering for words) and it isn't getting through. He repeats that he's "offended" by my gun, so I say, "well, the fact that you're offended by my lawful exercise of rights offends me."
I don't remember his exact words, but they were to the effect that I am a coward and they involved several words unfit for polite company. So, I said, "I think the fact that you'd swear at a stranger in public speaks volumes about your character, sir, and the fact that you're resorting to ad hominem attacks speaks volumes about the strength of your position."
So, he responds (yelling now), "Well I think that gun is also a statement. It's a statement that you're a ******* idiot!" I don't remember my exact words here, but they were essentially, "OK, well if all you're going to do is swear and insult me, then this conversation is over."
I'm fairly certain at that exact moment he realized how inappropriate his behavior had been, and how he'd just been made to look the fool by a man half his age, whom he was trying to provoke, but who stayed cool and collected, civil and polite, in the face of his tirade, underlining by contrast his own childish attitude and outburst. I'm certain because the next thing he does is turn to the manager, apologize, and say, "he's right. He's just exercising his rights. I'm leaving." And he does precisely that.
The manager was still a little miffed, and told me he was going to call the Fairfax County Police to be sure I was in the right (because, he said, he comes from SC which is not a permissive state. Right he was!). He spent a grand total of 30 seconds (if that) on the phone with a dispatcher (I presume). I didn't hear the other end of the call, but they had my back, as he asked if it was "cool to bring a gun into the restaurant", and a few seconds later thanked them, hung up, and went back to serving burgers.
The entire staff was buzzing for the next 10 minutes or so about the incident. I was pleased that the general tone of it seemed to be in my favor. One younger gentleman seemed himself quite offended by the whole affair, because I heard him repeatedly assert (during and after), "but it's his second amendment right!!!" in a tone of voice which very effectively conveyed his real meaning: "what the ****!?". Another young lady told the manager, in a tone of voice which indicated her own extreme lack of concern, "oh yeah, that guy comes in here all the time. He's always got the gun."
I finished my food, had a few more polite words with the staff, and went about my day.
I'll thank the forum for all I've learned about the power of civility.
Also: antis have a lot to learn if they expect their position places them on the high horse by default, which in their monumental arrogance they seem to.
My woman and I were in McDonalds (Burke Centre Parkway) getting lunch and, in her case, filling out a job application. I decided to go sit and eat while she conversed with the on-duty manager. Not halfway through my first burger, I notice that there's a guy talking to the manager and, as he's growing visibly more agitated, I begin to hear what he's saying: "There's a man over there with a gun, and I'm very offended by it. You know, I carried a gun in combat..." (By his age I'd guess Vietnam, if not Korea).
The manager seemed confused and unsure how to respond, and this guy is all set to cause a scene because he's not getting instant gratification, so I go against my initial judgment and approach to have a few words with the two gentlemen. I don't remember my exact words, but I started with something like, "You know, everyone seems to be just eating their food except you, who seems intent on causing a scene. If my lawful behavior bothers you that much, you can always leave." To which he responds indicating that he will leave, but only if the manager won't eject me.
At this point the manager asks me to take my gun to the car. I told him, "no, sir, I can't do that. It isn't safe to leave my gun unattended, especially after attention has been drawn to it. If you'd like me to leave I'll do that, but you should know that it's totally cool for me to be armed according to state law, and it's also in accordance with McDonald's corporate policy that I be allowed to stay."
At this point the angry guy starts berating me, asking me what I'm scared of, why I need a gun, etc. I try to convey that it's not a matter of fear, and I could explain if he would stop putting words in my mouth, but at this point he's visibly angry (quivering and stuttering for words) and it isn't getting through. He repeats that he's "offended" by my gun, so I say, "well, the fact that you're offended by my lawful exercise of rights offends me."
I don't remember his exact words, but they were to the effect that I am a coward and they involved several words unfit for polite company. So, I said, "I think the fact that you'd swear at a stranger in public speaks volumes about your character, sir, and the fact that you're resorting to ad hominem attacks speaks volumes about the strength of your position."
So, he responds (yelling now), "Well I think that gun is also a statement. It's a statement that you're a ******* idiot!" I don't remember my exact words here, but they were essentially, "OK, well if all you're going to do is swear and insult me, then this conversation is over."
I'm fairly certain at that exact moment he realized how inappropriate his behavior had been, and how he'd just been made to look the fool by a man half his age, whom he was trying to provoke, but who stayed cool and collected, civil and polite, in the face of his tirade, underlining by contrast his own childish attitude and outburst. I'm certain because the next thing he does is turn to the manager, apologize, and say, "he's right. He's just exercising his rights. I'm leaving." And he does precisely that.
The manager was still a little miffed, and told me he was going to call the Fairfax County Police to be sure I was in the right (because, he said, he comes from SC which is not a permissive state. Right he was!). He spent a grand total of 30 seconds (if that) on the phone with a dispatcher (I presume). I didn't hear the other end of the call, but they had my back, as he asked if it was "cool to bring a gun into the restaurant", and a few seconds later thanked them, hung up, and went back to serving burgers.
The entire staff was buzzing for the next 10 minutes or so about the incident. I was pleased that the general tone of it seemed to be in my favor. One younger gentleman seemed himself quite offended by the whole affair, because I heard him repeatedly assert (during and after), "but it's his second amendment right!!!" in a tone of voice which very effectively conveyed his real meaning: "what the ****!?". Another young lady told the manager, in a tone of voice which indicated her own extreme lack of concern, "oh yeah, that guy comes in here all the time. He's always got the gun."
I finished my food, had a few more polite words with the staff, and went about my day.
I'll thank the forum for all I've learned about the power of civility.
Also: antis have a lot to learn if they expect their position places them on the high horse by default, which in their monumental arrogance they seem to.
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Marshaul, thanks for sharing your experience...it sounds like you handled it quite professionally but..
if i might play Monday quarterback and remind you to call the corp overseers of the McD you were in and relay the sordid details of the event so they may assure the appropriate MoD (and staff) receive remedial training on his behaviour...
again, nicely played...
ipse
if i might play Monday quarterback and remind you to call the corp overseers of the McD you were in and relay the sordid details of the event so they may assure the appropriate MoD (and staff) receive remedial training on his behaviour...
again, nicely played...
ipse
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Well, I had my first negative encounter in so many years I've lost count. It's been a couple days now, but it was fairly amusing so I figured I'd share here (to the best of my recollection).
My woman and I were in McDonalds (Burke Centre Parkway) getting lunch and, in her case, filling out a job application. I decided to go sit and eat while she conversed with the on-duty manager. Not halfway through my first burger, I notice that there's a guy talking to the manager and, as he's growing visibly more agitated, I begin to hear what he's saying: "There's a man over there with a gun, and I'm very offended by it. You know, I carried a gun in combat..." (By his age I'd guess Vietnam, if not Korea).
The manager seemed confused and unsure how to respond, and this guy is all set to cause a scene because he's not getting instant gratification, so I go against my initial judgment and approach to have a few words with the two gentlemen. I don't remember my exact words, but I started with something like, "You know, everyone seems to be just eating their food except you, who seems intent on causing a scene. If my lawful behavior bothers you that much, you can always leave." To which he responds indicating that he will leave, but only if the manager won't eject me.
At this point the manager asks me to take my gun to the car. I told him, "no, sir, I can't do that. It isn't safe to leave my gun unattended, especially after attention has been drawn to it. If you'd like me to leave I'll do that, but you should know that it's totally cool for me to be armed according to state law, and it's also in accordance with McDonald's corporate policy that I be allowed to stay."
At this point the angry guy starts berating me, asking me what I'm scared of, why I need a gun, etc. I try to convey that it's not a matter of fear, and I could explain if he would stop putting words in my mouth, but at this point he's visibly angry (quivering and stuttering for words) and it isn't getting through. He repeats that he's "offended" by my gun, so I say, "well, the fact that you're offended by my lawful exercise of rights offends me."
I don't remember his exact words, but they were to the effect that I am a coward and they involved several words unfit for polite company. So, I said, "I think the fact that you'd swear at a stranger in public speaks volumes about your character, sir, and the fact that you're resorting to ad hominem attacks speaks volumes about the strength of your position."
So, he responds (yelling now), "Well I think that gun is also a statement. It's a statement that you're a ******* idiot!" I don't remember my exact words here, but they were essentially, "OK, well if all you're going to do is swear and insult me, then this conversation is over."
I'm fairly certain at that exact moment he realized how inappropriate his behavior had been, and how he'd just been made to look the fool by a man half his age, whom he was trying to provoke, but who stayed cool and collected, civil and polite, in the face of his tirade, underlining by contrast his own childish attitude and outburst. I'm certain because the next thing he does is turn to the manager, apologize, and say, "he's right. He's just exercising his rights. I'm leaving." And he does precisely that.
The manager was still a little miffed, and told me he was going to call the Fairfax County Police to be sure I was in the right (because, he said, he comes from SC which is not a permissive state. Right he was!). He spent a grand total of 30 seconds (if that) on the phone with a dispatcher (I presume). I didn't hear the other end of the call, but they had my back, as he asked if it was "cool to bring a gun into the restaurant", and a few seconds later thanked them, hung up, and went back to serving burgers.
The entire staff was buzzing for the next 10 minutes or so about the incident. I was pleased that the general tone of it seemed to be in my favor. One younger gentleman seemed himself quite offended by the whole affair, because I heard him repeatedly assert (during and after), "but it's his second amendment right!!!" in a tone of voice which very effectively conveyed his real meaning: "what the ****!?". Another young lady told the manager, in a tone of voice which indicated her own extreme lack of concern, "oh yeah, that guy comes in here all the time. He's always got the gun."
I finished my food, had a few more polite words with the staff, and went about my day.
I'll thank the forum for all I've learned about the power of civility.
Also: antis have a lot to learn if they expect their position places them on the high horse by default, which in their monumental arrogance they seem to.
My only negative encounter when I OC'd on a regular basis also took place in a McDonald's on a Saturday in August 2009. The guy did escalate the situation when it was obvious to him that he was not, 1) getting anywhere with his argument and position, and 2) was not rattling me. He had claimed he was a retire LEO but judging from his accent, he was not from Virginia... probably from somewhere up in the northeast. My experience wasn't as verbose as was yours but nonetheless, still a bit anxious. In the end, he lost and I won and he was made to look the fool.
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