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2010 Legislative Session

peter nap

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ChinChin wrote:
zoom6zoom wrote:
4) Permit [strike]teachers/educators[/strike] to carry [strike]concealed[/strike] in K-12 schools w/CHP.

Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
Call me a realist. It a perfect world we'd have zero gun right restrictions. As it stands the world is not perfect and reaching too far too fast isn't practical and simply will not work, despite the fact that I might want it to.

It took decades for things to get this out of hand and for rights to be demoted to "privileges". We're not going to get them all back overnight. . .it will take some time and immediately jumping on the one location the anti’s ALWAYS use at their foundation for fears (i.e. “why won’t somebody think of the children”) would backfire unless there is more solid foundation to build upon.
I happen to agree with you in theory ChinChin, but creating yet another step to a permit state won't work either.

Any bill to that effect WILL create a lot of resistance and hopefully will not make it out of committee.

We've stood by too long and allowed the CHP to be used as a carrot on a stick. I'd be happy to go along with an interim step as far as student carry goes if we hadn't already been slapped in the face with ridiculous statutes such as CHP holders being able to carry while bow hunting...etc, etc.
 

SouthernBoy

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Toad wrote:
I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
I would also like to see legislation along the lines of Montana's firearms freedom act.
Hell I would like to see all gun laws repealed...that would cover it.
This is true. Virginia addresses the use of deadly force quite well and I would also not wish to see this changed. I also agree with civil immunity when the victim acted in accordance with the law. I think it is a travesty to be dragged through civil litigation just to line a piece of scum's pockets (lawyer and plaintiff) with the wealth of a victim who did nothing wrong.
 

nova

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zoom6zoom wrote:
4) Permit [strike]teachers/educators[/strike] to carry [strike]concealed[/strike] in K-12 schools w/CHP.

Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
Federal law prohibits that. GFSZA means one must have a permit from the state the school is in or else they can't carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft of whatever's defined as a school zone.
 

1228

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In addition to what has been mentioned, I would like to the church restriction abolished and to at least allow employees to store firearms in their vehicle while on the employer's property. It needs to be written in such away that government agencies can't get around the law as we have seen them do in other situations.
 

peter nap

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nova wrote:
zoom6zoom wrote:
4) Permit [strike]teachers/educators[/strike] to carry [strike]concealed[/strike] in K-12 schools w/CHP.

Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
Federal law prohibits that. GFSZA means one must have a permit from the state the school is in or else they can't carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft of whatever's defined as a school zone.
We need to deal with state law Nova. Federal law is Federal law and we can't do much about it.
 

Grapeshot

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nova wrote:
zoom6zoom wrote:
4) Permit [strike]teachers/educators[/strike] to carry [strike]concealed[/strike] in K-12 schools w/CHP.
Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
Federal law prohibits that. GFSZA means one must have a permit from the state the school is in or else they can't carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft of whatever's defined as a school zone.
Not necessarily so - Why could this not apply to teachers? In fact, I think it has somewhere in Texas.

"(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
into between a school in the school zone and the
individual or an employer of the individual
;"

Gun Free School Zone Act - amended
Reenacted by Congress, Sept. 30, 1996
(P.L. 104-208)

Yata hey
 

Mr. Y

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I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
I don't think Virginia's precedent is all that strong. VA uses the common law with regard to self defense. You can employ basically 2 defenses to a shooting ' justifiable & excusable'. in the former, you had no part in the escalation to deadly force, in the latter you may have participated in escalating force at some point, but you must then retreat & 'express a desire for peace' and then be compelled to act.

Both of these are an "affirmative defense" which means that when you are in court, you admitto the crime (murder, manslaughter, etc. including lesser included offenses), and attempt to convince the jury that you should not beconvicted. When you employ an affirmative defense, you admit guilt of the crime and then must convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you were justified, or excusable from the offenses. As we all know, beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard to meet, and the typical result of a self defense claim is conviction.

A lot of times you will hear the "prosecutor / jury in fairfax" as opposed toRest of VA, but that's not really accurate. Even Fairfax has declined to prosecute for a S/D shooting in recent years, but the real problem is the 6 figures plus required to successfully defend yourself in one of the wealthier jurisdictions. If the circumstances are even remotely questionable, or the on scene report taker forthe local PD doesn't like guns, you could well end up bankrupted before you even get to trial because these commonwealths attorneys aren't stupid. They will delay, continue, etc. to put pressure on you to take a plea.

You might think all of that is fine. I don't.
 

ChinChin

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Mr. Y wrote:
I don't think Virginia's precedent is all that strong. VA uses the common law with regard to self defense. You can employ basically 2 defenses to a shooting ' justifiable & excusable'. in the former, you had no part in the escalation to deadly force, in the latter you may have participated in escalating force at some point, but you must then retreat & 'express a desire for peace' and then be compelled to act.

Both of these are an "affirmative defense" which means that when you are in court, you admitto the crime (murder, manslaughter, etc. including lesser included offenses), and attempt to convince the jury that you should not beconvicted. When you employ an affirmative defense, you admit guilt of the crime and then must convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you were justified, or excusable from the offenses. As we all know, beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard to meet, and the typical result of a self defense claim is conviction.

A lot of times you will hear the "prosecutor / jury in fairfax" as opposed toRest of VA, but that's not really accurate. Even Fairfax has declined to prosecute for a S/D shooting in recent years, but the real problem is the 6 figures plus required to successfully defend yourself in one of the wealthier jurisdictions. If the circumstances are even remotely questionable, or the on scene report taker forthe local PD doesn't like guns, you could well end up bankrupted before you even get to trial because these commonwealths attorneys aren't stupid. They will delay, continue, etc. to put pressure on you to take a plea.

You might think all of that is fine. I don't.
Have to say I agree. Common Law is determined in the Judicial phase. I'd prefer to never get that far along the process. I'd prefer to have a law a cop can look up on the spot that says: Nope. . .can't arrest him for anything in his own home for shooting an intruder.
 

TFred

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Mr. Y wrote:
I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
I don't think Virginia's precedent is all that strong. VA uses the common law with regard to self defense. You can employ basically 2 defenses to a shooting ' justifiable & excusable'. in the former, you had no part in the escalation to deadly force, in the latter you may have participated in escalating force at some point, but you must then retreat & 'express a desire for peace' and then be compelled to act.

Both of these are an "affirmative defense" which means that when you are in court, you admitto the crime (murder, manslaughter, etc. including lesser included offenses), and attempt to convince the jury that you should not beconvicted. When you employ an affirmative defense, you admit guilt of the crime and then must convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you were justified, or excusable from the offenses. As we all know, beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard to meet, and the typical result of a self defense claim is conviction.

A lot of times you will hear the "prosecutor / jury in fairfax" as opposed toRest of VA, but that's not really accurate. Even Fairfax has declined to prosecute for a S/D shooting in recent years, but the real problem is the 6 figures plus required to successfully defend yourself in one of the wealthier jurisdictions. If the circumstances are even remotely questionable, or the on scene report taker forthe local PD doesn't like guns, you could well end up bankrupted before you even get to trial because these commonwealths attorneys aren't stupid. They will delay, continue, etc. to put pressure on you to take a plea.

You might think all of that is fine. I don't.
It seems like these are the sorts of arguments and reasons that need to be given to the legislators. A system that still ruins your life (and your family's life) in the process of not throwing you in jail is not a working system at all.

TFred
 

peter nap

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Mr. Y wrote:
I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
I don't think Virginia's precedent is all that strong. VA uses the common law with regard to self defense. You can employ basically 2 defenses to a shooting ' justifiable & excusable'. in the former, you had no part in the escalation to deadly force, in the latter you may have participated in escalating force at some point, but you must then retreat & 'express a desire for peace' and then be compelled to act.

Both of these are an "affirmative defense" which means that when you are in court, you admitto the crime (murder, manslaughter, etc. including lesser included offenses), and attempt to convince the jury that you should not beconvicted. When you employ an affirmative defense, you admit guilt of the crime and then must convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you were justified, or excusable from the offenses. As we all know, beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard to meet, and the typical result of a self defense claim is conviction.

A lot of times you will hear the "prosecutor / jury in fairfax" as opposed toRest of VA, but that's not really accurate. Even Fairfax has declined to prosecute for a S/D shooting in recent years, but the real problem is the 6 figures plus required to successfully defend yourself in one of the wealthier jurisdictions. If the circumstances are even remotely questionable, or the on scene report taker forthe local PD doesn't like guns, you could well end up bankrupted before you even get to trial because these commonwealths attorneys aren't stupid. They will delay, continue, etc. to put pressure on you to take a plea.

You might think all of that is fine. I don't.
Boy...Do I agree with that.
Like most things, there's a world of difference between theory and real life. I hear way too often, if they do that, I'll sue or I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 or the argument at hand, we have a right to self defense in Va.

In theory, all that's good but believe me, justice is for sale. I ran into someone the other day that had a felony conviction. It was a sad case where she as a babysitter took a child under her care to the hospital because it seemed lethargic.

The child later died of natural causes but the prosecutor was running for office and took the case saying she waited too long to respond.

She had Magic Mike as a lawyer. Bad move in the first part. He is expensive, rarely wins and flat doesn't care about anything but his image.

The Commonwealth offered a deal. Plead guilty to felony child neglect and get probation.

Morchower told her it would cost a lot more money than she had to defend it and it was a good deal. Pretty much the end of the story.

Can't afford a lawyer and figure a court appointed one will do as well. Right!
You get what you pay for in those cases.

Think there is a long line of lawyers just straining at the bit to take civil cases on a contingency. Considering the number of members here, that contact me just to vent...doesn't look like it.

No, It's better to have a cut and dried law in place that protects the victim rather than trying to rely on common law and sense.
 

45acpForMe

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Basically I would like all of the following repealed:

-Federal property (concealed w/CHP and hunting exempted in National Forests)

-General Assembly Building & Property (OC or CC ok for CHP holders only)

-Virginia Commonwealth University (VAC90-10-50)

-Places of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held "without good and sufficient reason" (18.2-283)

-Restaurants & clubs serving alcohol for on-premises consumption(CC prohibited, OC not prohibited; owners and employees exempted) (18.2-308 J3)

-Air carrier airport terminal buildings (18.2-287.01)

-K-12 school property (unless unloaded & in closed container). CHP holders may possess a loaded, concealed handgun while in a vehicle (18.2-308.1)

-K-12 school buses (18.2-308.1)

-Private property uses exclusively for K-12 school functions (18.2-308.1)



I doubt these would ever get repealed (not that the above would be easy):

-Courthouses (10.2-283.1)

-Detention Facilities (15.2-915)

-Private property where prohibited by owner (18.2-308.O)



+1000 for the liability laws where guns/self-defense-weapons are banned.

Also under the 10th amendmentVA shoulddeclare null and voidany federal laws infringing on the 2nd amendment including class III weapons!

Basically when I leave my front door I shouldn't have to worry about having to lock up my gun at anypoint during the day including while I am at work. I find it highly offensive that my employer and my clients can dictate when and how I am allowed to carry. This includes military bases, churches, schools, post offices etc.
 

Grapeshot

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Make all legal gun owners/carriers a protected class. :lol: Interesting pun there.

That would take care of the carry problems in malls, theaters , etc.

Still leave Virginia's personal property rights (PPR) intact in homes, private/membership organizations and such.

No flames needed from the PPR fans - I know that will never happen.

Yata hey
 

raftgyde

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1) Restaurant conceal carry

3) Virginia University/College anti-carry ban.

5) Others I missed?
Parking Lot Bill

I'm not opposed to the other items, in fact I'm for most all of 'em. These are just the 3 most important to me at this time.

 

Thundar

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ChinChin wrote:
Others I missed?

Virginia Firearms Freedom Act - styled after the Tennessee and Montana Acts to start an intrastate firearms industry free from BATFE.

With Cuccinelli as Attorney General there couls be some real 10thA A$$ kicking from Virginia to the Federal Behemouth.

We could try for the entire enchilada, calling it the Firearms Freedom Act, but enacting every Pro Firearm act imagineable. Already discussed here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=33409&forum_id=54&highlight=Freedom
 

Neplusultra

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Thundar wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
Others I missed?

Virginia Firearms Freedom Act - styled after the Tennessee and Montana Acts to start an intrastate firearms industry free from BATFE.

With Cuccinelli as Attorney General there couls be some real 10thA A$$ kicking from Virginia to the Federal Behemouth.

We could try for the entire enchilada, calling it the Firearms Freedom Act, but enacting every Pro Firearm act imagineable. Already discussed here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=33409&forum_id=54&highlight=Freedom
I've long wanted to make my own full auto .22 LR machine gun, for the fun of it :^).
 

Mt Vernon .40

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