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Duty to Retreat?

wylde007

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Jan 23, 2009
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Va Beach, Occupied VA
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ProShooter wrote:
Its on the other side of that drawbridge that ALWAYS seems to be in the up position as I get near and stays that way for 30 minutes. :(
That's because they know you're coming. I have a bunch of stoplights near me that can sense when I'm in a hurry.

Just another opportunity to work on my self-discipline and patience. :D
 

Marco

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After reading this thread and others like it I had a long discussion with my dog.
I informed him per VA law he had to givea trespasser the oppurtunity to flee prior to letting him/her know they aren't welcome.

My dog then told me "well, if he is still on our property after the motion lights come on, I start barking and/or the alarm sounds his ass is mine".
 

fully_armed_biker

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Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
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Agent19 wrote:
After reading this thread and others like it I had a long discussion with my dog.
I informed him per VA law he had to givea trespasser the oppurtunity to flee prior to letting him/her know they aren't welcome.

My dog then told me "well, if he is still on our property after the motion lights come on, I start barking and/or the alarm sounds his ass is mine".
LMFAO!!!! Good Doggie :D!!!
 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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Agent19 wrote:
After reading this thread and others like it I had a long discussion with my dog.
I informed him per VA law he had to givea trespasser the oppurtunity to flee prior to letting him/her know they aren't welcome.

My dog then told me "well, if he is still on our property after the motion lights come on, I start barking and/or the alarm sounds his ass is mine".
And he can get away with it.

When I lived in Arlington, one of my next door neighbors (the rental house) owned a silver tipped timber wolf. It was 87 12% wolf and 12 1/2% Malamute however, I failed to see any Malamute in him. His name was Lenin and he really was beautiful. He weighed 165 pounds and was actually pretty trim. His head came up nearly to my belt - I am slightly over 5' 10". I figured I was either going to kill him or make friends with him.. and that is exactly what I did.

I gave him water on a very hot summer day when his owner (the wife) was gone, along with a few dog biscuits (I had a female German Shepard mix). After that, Lenin wouldn't leave me alone. He'd jump the fence when I came home from work so I would pay attention to him. What was really kinda funny was when emergency vehicles would pass by on route 50, he'd start in with his howling. Have to say, I miss him.
 

ODA 226

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Etzenricht, Germany
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wylde007 wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
Its on the other side of that drawbridge that ALWAYS seems to be in the up position as I get near and stays that way for 30 minutes. :(
That's because they know you're coming.
AND THEY KNOW YOU'RE A YANKEE!!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!!LMAO!!!!!:lol:

Uh, sorry....I couldn't resist! ;):p
 

ProShooter

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ODA 226 wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
Its on the other side of that drawbridge that ALWAYS seems to be in the up position as I get near and stays that way for 30 minutes. :(
That's because they know you're coming.
AND THEY KNOW YOU'RE A YANKEE!!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!!LMAO!!!!!:lol:

Uh, sorry....I couldn't resist! ;):p

I'm just a "boat Yankee" - My family was a bunch of potato farmers who came here in 1912 from the Emerald Isle.

A "true Yankee" would bring marshamallows to toast while watching the bridge burning after being set ablaze by the fleeing army....

Now it is me whocouldn't resist! ;):p
 

SaltH2OHokie

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Bottom of Suffolk, VA
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Mildly relevant, written today (and in my hometown):

SUFFOLK, Va. - Suffolk Police charged a 36-year-old Carrollton, Virginia man with Murder and Malicious Wounding in a shooting that injured one man and killed another in October. The Suffolk Commonwealth's Attorney's Office has since determined that Chad Andrew Kinney acted in self defense and will not be charged in the case.

The shooting happened in the 8900 blk. of Eclipse Drive on October 17.

Police say Kinney was driving on Eclipse Drive at around 9 p.m. when he encountered a vehicle operated by another man, identified as Glenn Joe Bauwens, 42, of Suffolk. Bauwens had another man and two females with him in his car when he and Kinney became involved is some type of road rage altercation. Police say that's what led to the shooting of Bauwens and one of his passengers, identified as Dennis W. Bailey.

According to the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, the Suffolk 911 Center received several calls concerning the shooting beginning at approximately 9:07 p.m. The first call came from Kinney. Kinney was hysterical and said he had been shot and that he had shot someone. He said he had been chased and had been struck in the face. He told the 911 operator where the incident took place and said he had placed his gun behind a tree.

When officers arrived, they noticed Bailey and Bauwens were wounded. Kinney was on his knees waiting for the officers.

Both Bauwens and Bailey were transported to a local hospital where Bauwen was pronounced dead a short time later. Bailey was transported to the hospital and survived.

A toxicology report showed both Bauwens and Bailey were heavily intoxicated at the time of the incident.

Chad Kinney, was very cooperative with the Suffolk Police Department according to the Commonwealth Attorney's Office. His version of what occurred was accurate with physical
and other evidence in the case.

Kinney testified in court that he was headed to his step-father's house on Eclipse Drive when he noticed a truck swerving and driving erratically. He thought the truck was turning, but as he passed it on the left, Kinney said he noticed the truck was pursuing him from behind. At that point, Kinney testified he thought he made the driver mad and attempted to flee by turning into the cemetery thinking the truck driven by Bauwens would just turn around an go another way, however, Kinney said Bauwens blocked him and he wasn't able to leave the area.

According to both Kinney and other witnesses, Bailey and Bauwens got out of the truck and yelled and cursed at him and immediately and quickly walked up to his car. They were, clearly hostile as they approached, one to each side of his car with Bailey approaching the driver's side and Bauwens the passenger's side.

Bauwens was under the influence of both alcohol and cocaine and Bailey was extremely intoxicated. Kinney, in his words, "froze" and could not back up. Kinney's driver's side window then "exploded." In Kinney's statement, he said he thought it was from a gunshot, and that he was about to be killed.

An officer noticed two small cuts on Kinney's face that Kinney said came from the broken glass on the driver's side. Kinney also noticed one of the men was trying to get into his front passenger door. He shot out of the broken driver's window and shot through the front passenger window. After that, he ran to get help.

Kinney said he would have liked to have backed his car away from the assailants, but that it happened so fast.

According to the Suffolk Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, the facts in this case show Kinney was confronted with a rapidly evolving situation where he was alone while being attacked by two strangers in a dark graveyard. It's both obvious and clear that the attack transpired so quickly that Kinney had no opportunity to escape.
 

Hawkflyer

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Feb 21, 2007
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Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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SaltH2OHokie wrote:
Mildly relevant, written today (and in my hometown):

SUFFOLK, Va. - Suffolk Police
...SNIP...

According to the Suffolk Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, the facts in this case show Kinney was confronted with a rapidly evolving situation where he was alone while being attacked by two strangers in a dark graveyard. It's both obvious and clear that the attack transpired so quickly that Kinney had no opportunity to escape.
And the great part of the story... These idiots did not have to be moved very far for burial. Darwinism in action.

Regards
 

doug23838

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Jul 5, 2007
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306
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, Virginia, USA
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fully_armed_biker wrote:
Yeah...it's kind of hard to claim self defense if the BG isn't even facing you when you shoot.

Friends help you move.

REAL Friends help you move bodies.

This could be a situation when you need to call a REAL friend first.
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
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Hawkflyer wrote:
SaltH2OHokie wrote:
Mildly relevant, written today (and in my hometown):

SUFFOLK, Va. - Suffolk Police
...SNIP...

According to the Suffolk Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, the facts in this case show Kinney was confronted with a rapidly evolving situation where he was alone while being attacked by two strangers in a dark graveyard. It's both obvious and clear that the attack transpired so quickly that Kinney had no opportunity to escape.
And the great part of the story... These idiots did not have to be moved very far for burial. Darwinism in action.

Regards
Surely I am not the only one who is wondering why this man sat accused of second degree murder from October until now?

TFred
 

user

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Northern Piedmont
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Second degree murder requires a homicide (no question about that part) coupled with the evident willingness to kill and the general intent to kill. It doesn't require premeditation or the plan to kill a particular person. A person who blindfolds himself in the crowded shopping mall, pulls out a handgun and starts shooting randomly commits second degree murder. No plan to kill anyone in particular, not even aiming at anyone in particular, but willing to kill whomever the bullets happen to hit.

"Self defense" is a trial defense. It's not a get out of jail free card. So what the Commonwealth has apparently decided is that it's not worth it to put this guy on trial, because he does have a good defense.

It's like suing someone where the statute of limitations has elapsed. You can do it, because SOL is an affirmative defense. But if the defendant is likely to show up and file the appropriate pleading, then you're SOL. So most folks don't bother to file suit after the SOL has elapsed.

Similar situation.
 

ForceofWill

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Dec 12, 2009
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Virginia Beach, VA, ,
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I'm really going to try and attend Users next class in January. Figure I might as well take another long drive after attending the GA building in Richmond with the VCDL a couple days earlier. Coming from Florida, I've been reading/hearing a lot of different ideas of what one should do to not go to jail. It seems to me that people here tend to get thrown into jail until they can figure out it was self defense. I dunno, maybe I just read some bad instances, but I really wish they could implement something like this from Florida Stand your Ground law.

"In either case(residence, occupied vehicle, or ""place a person has a right to be,"") a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful."

Edit: Grammar
 

simmonsjoe

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Nov 1, 2009
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Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
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ProShooter wrote:
fully_armed_biker wrote:
BTW - West point is roughly half way between Richmond and Williamsburg.
Its on the other side of that drawbridge that ALWAYS seems to be in the up position as I get near and stays that way for 30 minutes. :(
Where the **** you been?? We got two new bridges, four lanes each, high rises so they never close. first one even goes all the way over the RxR crossing too. Had em for a few years now.
 

SaltH2OHokie

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Apr 26, 2008
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416
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Bottom of Suffolk, VA
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As to that guy being locked up since Oct. (or at least not cleared until now...not sure if he was in jail): Word around town about that was that it was an altercation that spilled from a restaurant, to rt17, to the neighborhood, to the cemetery, and then to the shooting. So, not quite a random act with 1 totally innocent part and 1 totally wrong party.

From what I've heard, the end result (self-defense) still sounds correct, just not as cut and dry as that article might have it sound...so maybe if investigators/prosecutors were privy to that same info, they were thinking about their next move for a while before actually making it, hence the wait.

Just conjecture based on gossip, but my $.02 nonetheless.
 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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ForceofWill wrote:
I'm really going to try and attend Users next class in January. Figure I might as well take another long drive after attending the GA building in Richmond with the VCDL a couple days earlier. Coming from Florida, I've been reading/hearing a lot of different ideas of what one should do to not go to jail. It seems to me that people here tend to get thrown into jail until they can figure out it was self defense. I dunno, maybe I just read some bad instances, but I really wish they could implement something like this from Florida Stand your Ground law.

"In either case(residence, occupied vehicle, or ""place a person has a right to be,"") a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful."

Edit: Grammar
Virginia is also a "stand your ground" state and a "no duty to retreat" state. Welcome to Virgnia. You will soon find out that Virginia is the most lenient state in the South when it comes to carrying defensive arms.
 

ProShooter

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simmonsjoe wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
fully_armed_biker wrote:
BTW - West point is roughly half way between Richmond and Williamsburg.
Its on the other side of that drawbridge that ALWAYS seems to be in the up position as I get near and stays that way for 30 minutes. :(
Where the @#$% you been?? We got two new bridges, four lanes each, high rises so they never close. first one even goes all the way over the RxR crossing too. Had em for a few years now.
I haven't seen any of the new stuff 'cause I'm still sitting on this side of the bridge waiting for it to come down!
 
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