Home defense weapon

[t33j]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

#4 buckshot and 00 penetrate about the same with 00 maybe going through an additional wall. They also spread out about the same 3" at 12ft (depending on barrel length/choke) so at 15-20ft you still have to aim but the pattern may be 4-5" which can be good when you are targeting a moving bad guy. He mentions that #4 buckshot has some penetration problems too but didn't go into it on this page.

I still say 00 is the way to go. The above site also notes that 45acp which is a slower round than 9mm, 40, or any rifle round penetrated all 12 drywall boards. So by their experience a shotgun is safer to use in home defense over any pistol/rifle/carbine.

Great links

 

[irish52084]

Well, my point was a dog as a "SD layer" serves a limited function when you get right down to it. They make noise. If it is possible, it's an effective layer, along with a HG, training, practice, alarm system, gated community, nice locale, locked doors. But you can't rely on a dog alone.

Edit to add: Also, most of us choose our dogs as 'pets' first, and not as watchdogs.

I agree completely, that a dog is just a layer of defense and most people choose their dogs as "pets" first. I just wanted to point out that most dogs can be trained to alert bark and avoid human food.

We selected our dog with our 2 sons in mind, our oldest is almost 6 and youngest was about 6 months when we got our dog. The dog was selected as a pet first and as a layer of protection second. The dog had to be good with kids and had to have been around them, as well as meeting some of our protection criteria. He's not an uber trained protection dog, but he will alert bark and growl, he's large and intimidating and he has natural protective instincts. I saw our dog go into defend mode on Halloween, and believe me, there was no chance some food was going to get him off you. He scared these 2 teenagers half to death until I stopped him from barking and growling. They were wearing face paint and masks and our dog didn't like it when he couldn't read their facial expressions.

 

[Freedom First]

My dog is a not a layer of security, she is layer on the floor... Or a layer on the couch. I cannot rely on her as a doorbell once she is asleep. Slacker.:banghead:

 

[DevinWKuska]

at bedisde is Mossberg "Defender" with flashbang shells. Taurus .45acp loaded with 1 FMJ followed by 9 hydra-shoks. if nothing else my nagant mossin is loaded with 5 7.62x59rounds and the beautiful thing about a mossin is its heavy and cheap... so makes a good club for last ditch efforts

Great link where you can buy flashbang shells
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/52/products_id/1086

 

[KansasMustang]

That is the longest bayonet I have seen!:shocker: What is that 14"? I have Remmingtons so don't see the need for a Mossberg but wouldn't mind the bayonet.

As far as people saying that the sound of racking the shotgun is preferable to blowing a hole in the bad guy, I disagree. I keep a shell chambered!!! Nothing says GetTheFOutOfMyHouse better than a sucking chest wound!

I am not willing to risk the life of my family or myself by giving away my position with the sound of the shotgun cycling. If you are in my house unwelcome there is no warning (shot, cycle, words)! Your first warning will be seeing the tunnel of light opening up in front of you as your stay here on earth has come to an end!

Great Minds think alike! +1

 

[45acpForMe]

at bedisde is Mossberg "Defender" with flashbang shells. Taurus .45acp loaded with 1 FMJ followed by 9 hydra-shoks. if nothing else my nagant mossin is loaded with 5 7.62x59rounds and the beautiful thing about a mossin is its heavy and cheap... so makes a good club for last ditch efforts

Great link where you can buy flashbang shells
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/52/products_id/1086

Thanks for the link. Some cool stuff for neighborhood defense if the SHTF. I just wonder how hard a target does it take to ignite the incendiary round. I assume body armor would be enough but wonder if it would travel into/through a human body without going off? Other Mr. Bad Guys may lose interest in the attack if they see the first Mr. Bad Guy "ignite" from within. If nothing else it will reveal their position in the dark.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/incendiary-ammo-incendiary-pistol-ammo

 

[coorsleftfield]

I just upgraded from my winchester defender pump to a Benelli M2 last week.. Can't wait to get it out on the range.

 

[gprod55]

12 ga Ithaca pump with 00 buck (9-32 cal pellets) x 5, J Stevens 12 ga double barrel outside hammers (older model) with 00 buck, Taurus Millineum Pro 145 cal with 3-10 round clips with hollowpoints used for concealed carry, Makarov 9x18 with 4-8 round clips loaded with hollowpoints, Hawes Western Marshall 44 magnum 6 shot, Ruger 357 magnum 6 shot, Charter Arms 38 spl 5 shot in a back up ankle holster. What am I afraid of not a damn thing. Out here in the country you don't have any drive by shootings cause everyone has a gun and tends to shoot back.

Better to be judged by 12 then carried by six.

 

[DevinWKuska]

Thanks for the link. Some cool stuff for neighborhood defense if the SHTF. I just wonder how hard a target does it take to ignite the incendiary round. I assume body armor would be enough but wonder if it would travel into/through a human body without going off? Other Mr. Bad Guys may lose interest in the attack if they see the first Mr. Bad Guy "ignite" from within. If nothing else it will reveal their position in the dark.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/incendiary-ammo-incendiary-pistol-ammo

Well I have Incendiary rounds for my .308 and my .223 and the surface you have to strike is like a steel plate. I cant remember where I read it but I guess they were intended for lightly armored vehicles. dont thing a BG would set if off... maybe if you tossed him a bullet proof vest with no steel plate in it... might be enough to set it off. But seriously.. shoot those at a steel target sometimes.. fun as hell. gets lots of attention at the range!

 

[j4l]

While amusing to joke about, incendiary rounds (even where you can legally acquire them at all) are going to open up a whole world of legal issues if used.

For shotguns- the whole birdshot vs. 00/000 thing- a lot of myths out there about one being less-lethal or destructive in home defense-use. Dont buy into em.
I've tested #4, #6 , 00, and 000 at ranges up to 25m on a bunch of typical household construction materials (remains of an old out-building/shop on my land that had been taken down) to include pine framing, sheetrock, steel and wood doors, glass, siding, insulation,etc.

#6 penetrated the least, #4/00/000 all penetrated all materials with ease.
Patterning- open, no choke- even out to 25m/30m never spread more than about the size of my open hand.
Bottom-line- birdshot is still going to punch clean through every interior wall downrange,most furniture, kitchen appliances, doors, windows, you name it- short of concrete and really thick brick. Little Suzie 3 rooms down is still just as likely to have her mellon peeled.
:banghead:

 

[billv]

I've read a couple of posts about #00 buck at 12 feet having a 3-6" pattern.

My Mossberg 500 with the 18.5" smooth bore, no choke barrel and 3" #00 magnum shells gave me a pattern more like 2.5 feet diameter at 17 (50 feet) yards. After 24 rounds into the standard size target, the wind blew it away. Let's see, 3" at 12 feet would be 12" at 48 feet so my patterns seems rather large.

Is it the short barrel, no choke or magnum shells or something else causing this wide pattern. Or is this normal?

 

[45acpForMe]

I've read a couple of posts about #00 buck at 12 feet having a 3-6" pattern.

My Mossberg 500 with the 18.5" smooth bore, no choke barrel and 3" #00 magnum shells gave me a pattern more like 2.5 feet diameter at 17 (50 feet) yards. After 24 rounds into the standard size target, the wind blew it away. Let's see, 3" at 12 feet would be 12" at 48 feet so my patterns seems rather large.

Is it the short barrel, no choke or magnum shells or something else causing this wide pattern. Or is this normal?

Well if you extrapolate the 6" out to 50 feet you get about two feet pattern. My guess is that it is very dependent on barrel & load. For indoor protecting your home 12-15 feet is the usual distances you would be shooting. My points were only to say that you have to AIM a shotgun and it doesn't magically vaporize a bad guy if it is pointed in his general direction. :uhoh: