• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

How can a state run university ban open carry?

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I spoke with a representative of the UVU police department and was told that the current policy is posted on their main page. I asked him whether or not open carry with a conceal permit is permitted and he said yes, but you will be sited with disorderly conduct if the department receive calls of concern.
Doesn't that still conflict with Utah's disorderly conduct law?

Yes it does.

And this is where we are back to intimidation on their part. If they don't actually have a policy banning OC, they will do their best to convince you that if you OC bad things will happen. They will do their best to intimidate you into not OCing.

If you are looking for them to tell you that they are perfectly happy with you OCing on campus and into class, you'll have a very long wait.

If your reaction to a police officer telling you to cover your gun is to either comply, or to react with hostility of various forms, you probably won't be able to OC very long. They will be able to hit you with a Disorderly Conduct or similar charge based on your "additional behaviors" that gave a cop something to articulate beyond your just having a gun.

If, however, in the face of an authority figure like a cop telling you to cover your gun you can calmly, politely, civilly yet forcefully decline to do so for lack of any legal requirement...if you can even accept a bogus citation peacefully and civilly knowing the judge is going to have no choice but to toss it, you can probably OC quite fine.

That doesn't mean some liberal English lit, professor, or victims' study professor isn't going to decide s/he really dislikes the way you write your papers, making it hard for you to get an easy A. But for math, science, and engineering classes professors tend to have less leeway to decide whether your answers were correct or not. Either you found the correct integral for 5x^3 or you didn't.

If you are looking for someone to tell you that nobody is going to object to you OCing, OCing (off the job, out of uniform) is probably not for you. And there is nothing wrong with that so long as you are ok CCing. Nothing says gun owners have some duty to OC.

If you want to OC, you need to adopt the correct mindset of learning the laws very clearly and then being confident and firm--while being consummately polite, professional, and civil--in asserting your rights when someone attempts to intimidate you into surrendering your rights.

All the best.

(Near the top of the page if viewed on a PC is a "Notifications" bar. You should have at least 1 notification there. It is a PM from me. Go into the "Private Messages" link to read and respond. There may be some local assistance available to you, but I won't post such info in the public areas of the forum.)

Charles
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Yes it does.

And this is where we are back to intimidation on their part. If they don't actually have a policy banning OC, they will do their best to convince you that if you OC bad things will happen. They will do their best to intimidate you into not OCing.

If you are looking for them to tell you that they are perfectly happy with you OCing on campus and into class, you'll have a very long wait...
Ljec1991: since you haven't done so well listening to others, I hope you read what Mr. BagPiper just wrote and that you follow his advice.
 

Ljec1991

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Utah County
Do you read your own posts???

Look at post #4 on this thread, where you posted, complete with bold text, the following:

"76-9-102. Disorderly conduct...

(3) The mere carrying or possession of a holstered or encased firearm, whether visible or concealed, without additional behavior or circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe the holstered or encased firearm was carried or possessed with criminal intent, does not constitute a violation of this section. " (my underline and color)


You've got your answer (multiple times on multiple subjects) so the question is "What are you going to do about it??"

The goal of the question was to see the perspective of the law from a more experienced view. I certainly read the post and knew the words in the law, but wanted to see if I could get better input from those with more experience.

As for what I am going to do, I feel that I will seek a little more knowledge from some those with experience. Then do as Solus said, Don't go in alone. I'll see if I can find others with the same issue. From there the situation has to be taken in small steps due to the fact that big steps can get you the big boot out. I don't plan to openly protest with open carrying my weapon at this time. I feel like the right way at this time is through obedience to their policy, while discussing the issue at hand.
 
Last edited:

Nang pa

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2015
Messages
64
Location
United States
I am currently attending a state run university called Utah Valley University in Utah. The university has this posted on their police department main page:

"Utah Valley University complies with state law with regard to weapons on campus. Utah state law clearly states that a person may not possess a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shot gun on school premises (Utah Code 76-10-505.5) except under certain conditions. One of these exceptions indicates that this criminal statute is not applicable if the person is authorized to possess a concealed firearm as provided by the Concealed Weapon Law. UVU abides by this law and accordingly allows concealed firearm permit holders to possess their concealed firearm on campus. There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus. State statute defines a concealed dangerous weapon as being covered, hidden, or secured in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence (Utah Code 76-10-501). As an institution, UVU respects the right of its students and others to legally carry a concealed firearm under those parameters, as outlined by state law."

A representative of the University took me to their policy pages https://www.uvu.edu/policies/officialpolicy/uploads/public/500/541_550/541.student_rights_and_responsibilities_code.20061 116.pdf where it states on page 4:

5.3.1
A student assumes the responsibility to conduct himself or herself in an appropriate manner. Categories of misconduct include, but are not limited to, the following:

5)Use or possession of any weapon, explosive device, or fireworks on a person or storage of
such on university property without prior written approval from the Chief of Campus Police.


How can Utah Valley University restrict open carry based on the fact that an action not made illegal by legislative law is an action you have no right to perform?

Plus in Utah code 53-5a-102 it reads:

"Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property."

So how does Utah Valley University justify its open carry ban?
Isn't that like requiring a dress code?
 
Top