Interesting Safeway Encounter

[Hef]

First off you have not shown that there are any tax obligations when it comes to the paying of workers.

You have still not shown where "pay roll" taxes are found in the law.

My experience is in the study of law. Part of those studies was in creating a business.

The SSN issue came because I was giving you a little bit of credit. Since there are no "pay roll taxes" found in the IRC (Title 26 USC).

You've "studied" law and the creation of businesses? Have you actually become a lawyer? Have you gone out into the world and created any businesses? Have you operated any businesses? Is your argument based on your "studies", and perhaps some classroom discussion, or do you have real world experience?

I have formed four businesses, one being a sole proprietorship, and the other 3 S-corps. All four are operating. I have hired hundreds of people and paid a wide variety of taxes - corporate income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, brewing taxes, etc. I know from firsthand experience what happens when you don't pay taxes.

When you don't pay corporate income taxes, you get a letter, some phone calls, and possibly a visit from the IRS. If you don't pay the state their share, the Secretary of State dissolves your corporation.

When you don't pay payroll taxes, the IRS agent brings a Dept of Labor agent with him. If you fail to pay the IRS will freeze your assets and your EIN until they get what they are owed.

When you don't pay property taxes, the county sends you a letter, and if you don't respond they lien your property.

If you don't pay brewing taxes, the ATF sends you a letter and then an agent shows up to audit your brewing records. If you don't pay they lien your property, take your brewing license, and pour all your beer down the drain.


Still want to argue theories?

 

[Freedom1Man]

You've "studied" law and the creation of businesses? Have you actually become a lawyer? Have you gone out into the world and created any businesses? Have you operated any businesses? Is your argument based on your "studies", and perhaps some classroom discussion, or do you have real world experience?

I have formed four businesses, one being a sole proprietorship, and the other 3 S-corps. All four are operating. I have hired hundreds of people and paid a wide variety of taxes - corporate income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, brewing taxes, etc. I know from firsthand experience what happens when you don't pay taxes.

When you don't pay corporate income taxes, you get a letter, some phone calls, and possibly a visit from the IRS. If you don't pay the state their share, the Secretary of State dissolves your corporation.

When you don't pay payroll taxes, the IRS agent brings a Dept of Labor agent with him. If you fail to pay the IRS will freeze your assets and your EIN until they get what they are owed.

When you don't pay property taxes, the county sends you a letter, and if you don't respond they lien your property.

If you don't pay brewing taxes, the ATF sends you a letter and then an agent shows up to audit your brewing records. If you don't pay they lien your property, take your brewing license, and pour all your beer down the drain.


Still want to argue theories?

So where are "pay roll taxes" found in the law?

You have continued to dodge that one simple question. I believe it's because there is no such thing found in the law and you're too embarrassed to admit it.

 

[Hef]

So where are "pay roll taxes" found in the law?

You have continued to dodge that one simple question. I believe it's because there is no such thing found in the law and you're too embarrassed to admit it.

The answer to your question is:

I don't know the exact set of statutes that governs payroll taxes. I don't care either. I know that failing to report payroll and pay payroll taxes will have legal consequences.

Now it's your turn to answer my questions.

 

[Freedom1Man]

The answer to your question is:

I don't know the exact set of statutes that governs payroll taxes. I don't care either. I know that failing to report payroll and pay payroll taxes will have legal consequences.

Now it's your turn to answer my questions.

Well if you can't show that there is any "pay roll taxes" then you can't prove you are in fact following the law. In fact the only thing you have proven is that you are guilty of criminal FRAUD and CONVERSION. You are advocating breaking the law and have admitted to criminal activities here in a forum open to the public. Congrats.

EDIT:

I am not arguing any theory I am arguing facts when it comes to tax law. BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[Hef]

Well if you can't show that there is any "pay roll taxes" then you can't prove you are in fact following the law. In fact the only thing you have proven is that you are guilty of criminal FRAUD and CONVERSION. You are advocating breaking the law and have admitted to criminal activities here in a forum open to the public. Congrats.

EDIT:

I am not arguing any theory I am arguing facts when it comes to tax law. BIG DIFFERENCE

Answer my questions. I want to know what actual business experience you have. I'm not interested in your tired "taxes are illegal" argument. I want to know what sort of success in business you've had in the real world operating with your ideology.

 

[Freedom1Man]

Answer my questions. I want to know what actual business experience you have. I'm not interested in your tired "taxes are illegal" argument. I want to know what sort of success in business you've had in the real world operating with your ideology.

You have yet to answer my question.

I am not claiming that taxes are illegal. I am just proving that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to tax law. If you don't know the law you can never say you're following it. The only "ideology" I am talking about is simply following the law. You make a claim that you are and yet you have proven that you don't know the law and as such can never make any reasonable claim to have been following it.

Here I will try to help you help yourself This one is the code (the IRC) http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pag...&fromPageDetails=true&collapse=true&ycord=103

Then there is what is found in the regulations ...




§ 1.1441-5
Claiming to be a person not subject to withholding.
(a) Individuals. For purposes of chapter 3 of the Code, an individual's written statement that he or she is a citizen or resident of the United States may be relied upon by the payer of the income as proof that such individual is a citizen or resident of the United States. This statement shall be furnished to the withholding agent in duplicate. An alien may claim residence in the United States by filing Form 1078 with the withholding agent in duplicate in lieu of the above statement.
(b) Partnerships and corporations. For purposes of chapter 3 of the Code a written statement from a partnership or corporation claiming that it is not a foreign partnership or foreign corporation may be relied upon by the withholding agent as proof that such partnership or corporation is domestic. This statement shall be furnished to the withholding agent in duplicate. It shall contain the address of the taxpayer's office or place of business in the United States and shall be signed by a member of the partnership or by an officer of the corporation. The official title of the corporate officer shall also be given.
(c) Disposition of statement and form. The duplicate copy of each statement and form filed pursuant to this section shall be forwarded with a letter of transmittal to Internal Revenue Service Center, Philadelphia, PA 19255. The original statement shall be retained by the withholding agent.
(d) Definitions. For determining whether an alien individual is a resident of the United States see §§ 301.7701(b)-1 through 301.7701(b)-9 of this chapter. An individual with respect to whom an election to be treated as a resident under section 6013(g) is in effect is not, in accordance with § 1.1441-1, a resident for purposes of this section. For definition of the terms “foreign partnership” and “foreign corporation” see section 7701(a) (4) and (5) and § 301.7701-5 of this chapter. For definition of the term “United States” and for other geographical definitions relating to the Continental Shelf see section 638 and § 1.638-1.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1545-0795)

 

[amlevin]

pe·dan·tic   [puh-dan-tik]
adjective
1.
ostentatious in one's learning.
2.
overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.

 

[John Pierce]

The whole "income taxes are voluntary" argument is very off-topic for this forum (and guaranteed to insure an interesting and cellmate-filled future for anyone who buys into it).

Closing the thread.

 

[John Pierce]

The whole "income taxes are voluntary" argument is very off-topic for this forum (and guaranteed to insure an interesting and cellmate-filled future for anyone who buys into it).

Closing the thread.

I have been told that this was not an "income taxes are voluntary" argument but rather just a disagreement over semantics.

I hereby retract any implication that anyone here is a proponent of that failed argument. They are just argumentative with each other.