Kicked out of Kroger in Richmond, threatened by LEO with arrest.

[smn]

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Kroger (the Atlanta division) is listed as a bronze level corporate sponsor in the link I provided in my previous post.

There was a horrible incident in which an off duty officer was stabbed repeatedly in an Atlanta Kroger.

I OC in my hometown Kroger all the time. I've OC'd in the Midlothian, VA Kroger when visiting with no ill effects.

 

[LEO 229]

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mercutio545 wrote:

Snipped....

I did not read anything to show he was "rude."

Well he certainly wasn't being professional or respectful, threatening with that arrest and all, and talking down to me.


Just to confirm, there was no signage anywhere. If there was a sign, I wouldn't have carried on the property, with me being a good law-abiding citizen and all.


Oh, and LEO 229, I didn't know that refusing to show ID and asking simple questions was "rude". I guess I'm rude then :?.

Do not take it the wrong way... I am sure you were not intending to be rude and only asking questions. But just like the officer... things that are said by each party can and will be viewed as "rude"

You did not like how he spoke to you. Speaking down to you... making threats. He did not like some 21 year old kid questioning him and accusing him of being a liar in regards to the policy and trespassing (My Speculation).

To me... he was not rude. You have a 40+ year old cop speaking to a 21 year old kid. Sorry..to us older people you are still a kid.

You also have to also remember that... someone of authority needs to make it known that he is not going to let you walk all over him so his being firm is not intended to be rude. This goes for ANY person in that position like your boss.

But truthfully... neither side was really rude. They just did not like what the other was saying.

I would say he was pretty much prepping you to leave when he approached. He did not just walk up and kick you out or demand your ID, right?

So you said something.... maybe you did or did not tell us about... that set him off and caused him toeject you immediately! Or maybe he was having a bad day.

Were you trespassing?Not if it was just a policy. But now you have been banned so if you return.. armed or not.... you will be trespassing.

I am confident that had you told him "I was unaware of the policy. Would it be OK to just go put it in my car?" He would have said "Sure"

But you said

Me: "Actually I'm not trespassing. There were no signs out front, and nobody has told me to leave."

This became a challenge situationand he is going to win.

And he did.... legally and lawfully.For your "rude" behavior.. The officer paid you backand with interest...

Interest being... You are now forbidden to return while armed.


Edit.. Added while armed

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Grapeshot wrote:

That's very interesting. Can you provide a link. I peruse GeorgiaCarry frequently and have never seen referrance to such.

Yata hey

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgiacarryorg-sponsors/

 

[Doug Huffman]

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LEO 229 wrote:

You are now forbidden to return.

Presumes facts in question; corporate policy/local management/cop as representative of proprietor. If cop exceeded his authority granted by local management granted by corporate management then 'not'.

 

[mercutio545]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Do not take it the wrong way... I am sure you were not intending to be rude and only asking questions. But just like the officer... things that are said by each party can and will be viewed as "rude"

You did not like how he spoke to you. Speaking down to you... making threats. He did not like some 21 year old kid questioning him and accusing him of being a liar in regards to the policy and trespassing (My Speculation).

To me... he was not rude. You have a 40+ year old cop speaking to a 21 year old kid. Sorry..to us older people you are still a kid.

You also have to also remember that... someone of authority needs to make it known that he is not going to let you walk all over him so his being firm is not intended to be rude. This goes for ANY person in that position like your boss.

But truthfully... neither side was really rude. They just did not like what the other was saying.

I would say he was pretty much prepping you to leave when he approached. He did not just walk up and kick you out or demand your ID, right?

So you said something.... maybe you did or did not tell us about... that set him off and caused him toeject you immediately! Or maybe he was having a bad day.

Were you trespassing?Not if it was just a policy. But now you have been banned so if you return.. armed or not.... you will be trespassing.

I am confident that had you told him "I was unaware of the policy. Would it be OK to just go put it in my car?" He would have said "Sure"

But you said

Me: "Actually I'm not trespassing. There were no signs out front, and nobody has told me to leave."

This became a challenge situationand he is going to win.

And he did.... legally and lawfully.For your "rude" behavior.. The officer paid you backand with interest...

Interest being... You are now forbidden to return.

What set him off was my refusal to show him my ID. That's it.

Also, I am not forbidden to return to the store. The officer said that if I came back while armed, I would be arrested for trespass. He said nothing about being in the store unarmed.

 

[DKSuddeth]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Do not take it the wrong way... I am sure you were not intending to be rude and only asking questions. But just like the officer... things that are said by each party can and will be viewed as "rude"

You did not like how he spoke to you. Speaking down to you... making threats. He did not like some 21 year old kid questioning him and accusing him of being a liar in regards to the policy and trespassing (My Speculation).

To me... he was not rude. You have a 40+ year old cop speaking to a 21 year old kid. Sorry..to us older people you are still a kid.

You also have to also remember that... someone of authority needs to make it known that he is not going to let you walk all over him so his being firm is not intended to be rude. This goes for ANY person in that position like your boss.

But truthfully... neither side was really rude. They just did not like what the other was saying.

I would say he was pretty much prepping you to leave when he approached. He did not just walk up and kick you out or demand your ID, right?

So you said something.... maybe you did or did not tell us about... that set him off and caused him toeject you immediately! Or maybe he was having a bad day.

Were you trespassing?Not if it was just a policy. But now you have been banned so if you return.. armed or not.... you will be trespassing.

I am confident that had you told him "I was unaware of the policy. Would it be OK to just go put it in my car?" He would have said "Sure"

But you said

Me: "Actually I'm not trespassing. There were no signs out front, and nobody has told me to leave."

This became a challenge situationand he is going to win.

And he did.... legally and lawfully.For your "rude" behavior.. The officer paid you backand with interest...

Interest being... You are now forbidden to return while armed.


Edit.. Added while armed

Gee, I can't figure out why anyone would ever have a problem with police officers. They seem to be very cool and professional at all times. :quirky

LEO, I try real hard not to be too confrontational, but if I'd been the one carrying and you, or any other LEO approached me and talked to me like that, you'd be in for a serious judicial ride and an IA investigation.

Something that you and other LEOs need to start realizing is that the longer that the feds and courts continue to write free tickets for 'abuse by cop', sooner or later confrontations are going to turn extremely violent. I'd really like to not see that happen, but the odds are getting there.

 

[LEO 229]

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mercutio545 wrote:

What set him off was my refusal to show him my ID. That's it.

Also, I am not forbidden to return to the store. The officer said that if I came back while armed, I would be arrested for trespass. He said nothing about being in the store unarmed.

Sorry... I left off while armed. I corrected it before reading your post.

So you have now been given your official "no trespass" notice. :shock:

Do you feel like testing the waters?

Have you called the store and asked about the policy? As you posted... if you had known you would haveleft it behind. I am sure they will value you as a customer.

I do not agree with banning guns in businesses but people have their reasons. Some are just misguided. My insurance company has one but what they do not see will not be cause for alarm.

 

[LEO 229]

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DKSuddeth wrote:

Gee, I can't figure out why anyone would ever have a problem with police officers. They seem to be very cool and professional at all times. :quirky

LEO, I try real hard not to be too confrontational, but if I'd been the one carrying and you, or any other LEO approached me and talked to me like that, you'd be in for a serious judicial ride and an IA investigation.

Something that you and other LEOs need to start realizing is that the longer that the feds and courts continue to write free tickets for 'abuse by cop', sooner or later confrontations are going to turn extremely violent. I'd really like to not see that happen, but the odds are getting there.

And in this case you would say I was "rude to you"

Being rude is just someone not being very polite. Police are expected to be polite as they serve the public needs.

It has little to do withabuse as you would have the feds investigating. This is not an abuse of power, authority, or rights.

The OP says he felt like he was "talked down to" and the officer was
"Upset when ID was refused". These are not an abuse on anyone.

I highly doubt the feds are going to take this to court. :lol:

"Your honor.... The officer was rude and talked down to my client!! We demand he be charged and made to pay for not being polite. A5 year prison sentence is in order for his failing to be polite your honor." :lol:

OK... enough kidding around...


Confrontations will become violent by who?

Are citizens going to start attacking cops for being rude? :lol:

It is a two ways street.... Cops are expected to be kind but there are times when the officer can change his tone in order to gain compliance and get his point made.

What you find as rude will not be the same as for someone else.

 

[Grapeshot]

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Oops - wrong thread.

Yata hey

 

[LEO 229]

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Grapeshot wrote:

Oops - wrong thread.

Yata hey

I noticed that... :lol:

 

[mzmtg]

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mercutio545 wrote:

Officer: "You know that Kroger has a no weapons policy right?"

That's interesting. Especially since Kroger is a Bronze Level corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.Org.

FYI

 

[Grapeshot]

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mzmtg wrote:

mercutio545 wrote:

Officer: "You know that Kroger has a no weapons policy right?"

That's interesting. Especially since Kroger is a Bronze Level corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.Org.

FYI

Do the Richmond stores come under the Atlanta office?

Yata hey

 

[LEO 229]

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mzmtg wrote:

mercutio545 wrote:

Officer: "You know that Kroger has a no weapons policy right?"

That's interesting. Especially since Kroger is a Bronze Level corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.Org.

FYI

Well, one store in Georgia.. donated up to $100.

I hardly think that that one store speaks for the thousands that are out there.

Also... it does not mean that the guy running that store isin agreement with thepolicy.

Finally... just becausethey donate to your cause does not mean you can come in the store in violation of the policy.

If it was a true "corporate" sponsor.... I suspect it would be a much higher donation than Bronze. :lol:

Gold is only $501 and I think they could have coughed that up easy enough.

 

[smn]

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LEO 229 wrote:

mzmtg wrote:

mercutio545 wrote:

Officer: "You know that Kroger has a no weapons policy right?"

That's interesting. Especially since Kroger is a Bronze Level corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.Org.

FYI

Well, one store in Georgia.. donated up to $100.

I hardly think that that one store speaks for the thousands that are out there.

Also... it does not mean that the guy running that store isin agreement with thepolicy.

Finally... just becausethey donate to your cause does not mean you can come in the store in violation of the policy.

If it was a true "corporate" sponsor.... I suspect it would be a much higher donation than Bronze. :lol:

Gold is only $501 and I think they could have coughed that up easy enough.

Has a policeman's organization coughed up $501 for GCO or VCDL or PAFOA? That should be easy too. Coughing up money isn't easy for many budget conscious organizations. OTOH, the police are there to protect our civil rights, too. Policy is not law. The policeman in this situation may have his policy correct, however it remains to be seen.

Posession of a gun is not reason to stop someone. I believe the officer in this case overstepped his bounds and proper follow-up be done. I'm not advocating IA or suspension, demerit, or similar, but some retraining is in order. Kroger has made no effort to prevent others from carrying in stores, so I don't know why this location would be any different.

 

[peter nap]

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I can't find a sign 229. That means the officer is fibbing, the sign is hidden or it blew away.
I think he was blowing smoke and in that case I firmly believe his file should be padded!

 

[LEO 229]

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smn wrote:

Has a policeman's organization coughed up $501 for GCO or VCDL or PAFOA? That should be easy too. Coughing up money isn't easy for many budget conscious organizations. OTOH, the police are there to protect our civil rights, too. Policy is not law. The policeman in this situation may have his policy correct, however it remains to be seen.

Posession of a gun is not reason to stop someone. I believe the officer in this case overstepped his bounds and proper follow-up be done. I'm not advocating IA or suspension, demerit, or similar, but some retraining is in order. Kroger has made no effort to prevent others from carrying in stores, so I don't know why this location would be any different.

Have you asked one to donate?

The OP was not "stopped" in the sense he was not free to go. The officer approached and asked a question. That is hardly a "stop" due to being armed.

If there were the case.. Walking up and asking an armed person what model gun he carries would be wrong. :lol:

Was there a valid reason for the contact? Yes.. the officer apparently was told of a policy prohibiting guns in the business.

Is the chain corporate owned or a franchise? If it is an independently owned and operated store they can make their own rules.

Regardless on who owns it... the manager can elect to not to enforce some rules against the corporate office wishes.

 

[Grapeshot]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Yes.. the officer apparently was told of a policy prohibiting guns in the business

Or he could have just made up a BS story to cover his position - we don't know yet.

Yata hey

 

[LEO 229]

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Grapeshot wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Yes.. the officer apparently was told of a policy prohibiting guns in the business

Or he could have just made up a BS story to cover his position - we don't know yet.

Yata hey

True....

 

[DrMark]

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DrMark wrote:

mercutio545 wrote:

...I asked him for his name. He would not give it to me.

Huge red flag, IMO. I've never known a police officer to refuse to identify himself.

Once outside the store, I probably would have called 911, and told them someone claiming to be an officer told you to leave the store, but that they refused to identify themselves.

I agree that is is unusual and the officer should haveprovided his name.

Calling 9-1-1 is not the right thing to do.

This is NOT an emergency and you are trying up the line while other emergency calls are being placed on hold. Your calling to complain is preventing someone from getting an ambulance to their house for a child that has something stuck in their throat.

Precious minutes are getting lost while you complain. :uhoh:

Note that, despite the above misdirection, no one has suggested calling 911 to complain.

I've never known a legitimate officer refuse to identify himself; calling the police to report a potential imposter is a fairly serious matter.

Besides, local officers have told me and others that calling 911 is no big deal -- for non-emergencies you can be easily transferred to a non-emergency line. When asked for the non-emergency number, I've heard local officers actually say to call 911 and asked to be transferred. Things may be different in the metropolis that is Richmond.

 

[Grapeshot]

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DrMark wrote:

snip.........
I've never known a legitimate officer refuse to identify himself...........

I have and am the middle of a complaint investigation where that is part of the problem.

Yata hey