Knife laws in VA?

[ufcfanvt]

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Would it be legal to carry this concealed? Any thoughts?:

It's shorther than many folding knives, but doesn't fold.
Blade is 440C Black Teflon Coated
Weight : 2.18 oz.
Includes molded neck sheath with badge holder
Overall Length is 5.75"

 

[peter nap]

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ufcfanvt wrote:

Would it be legal to carry this concealed? Any thoughts?:

It's shorther than many folding knives, but doesn't fold.
Blade is 440C Black Teflon Coated
Weight : 2.18 oz.
Includes molded neck sheath with badge holder
Overall Length is 5.75"

If the cop wants to make an issue of it, I doubt it is legal. Those are actually fun to make but the finger hole could be consider a metal knuckle. It also depends on what part of the state your in. Rural Va, you'd be OK most places. The cities and especially the burbs, NO,

The bottom line is, if it's concealed, no one can see it and unseen is legal until you get caught.
Play with it in front of the wrong cop and you get to meet Bubba!

I know 229, I know...that's bad. No citizenship award this year

 

[LEO 229]

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Reverend73 wrote:

So I have this knife

It is a Masters of Defense CQD Mk1 Automatic. Is this a "switchbade"? I had to have my Military ID just to buy it and when I bring it home from Afghanistan I need a letter from my CO stating it is "issued" gear to get it through customs. Is this thing legal to carry concealed? Open?

I know that Benchmade will sell switchblades to LEO and Military only. But in Virginia there is no exceptionfor Military. Only a conservator of the peace.

§ 19.2-12. Who are conservators of the peace.

Every judge and attorney for the Commonwealth throughout the Commonwealth and every magistrate within the geographical area for which he is appointed or elected, shall be a conservator of the peace.

In addition, every commissioner in chancery, while sitting as such commissioner; any special agent or law-enforcement officer of the United States Department of Justice, National Marine Fisheries Service of the United States Department of Commerce, Department of Treasury, Department of Agriculture, Department of Defense, Department of State, Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Interior; any inspector, law-enforcement official or police personnel of the United States Postal Inspection Service; any United States marshal or deputy United States marshal whose duties involve the enforcement of the criminal laws of the United States; any officer of the Virginia Marine Police; any criminal investigator of the Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation, who meets the minimum law-enforcement training requirements established by the Department of Criminal Justice Services for in-service training; any criminal investigator of the United States Department of Labor; any special agent of the United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service, any special agent of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and any sworn municipal park ranger, who has completed all requirements under § 15.2-1706, shall be a conservator of the peace, while engaged in the performance of their official duties.



§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

 

[LEO 229]

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peter nap wrote:

ufcfanvt wrote:

Would it be legal to carry this concealed? Any thoughts?:


It's shorther than many folding knives, but doesn't fold.
Blade is 440C Black Teflon Coated
Weight : 2.18 oz.
Includes molded neck sheath with badge holder
Overall Length is 5.75"

If the cop wants to make an issue of it, I doubt it is legal. Those are actually fun to make but the finger hole could be consider a metal knuckle. It also depends on what part of the state your in. Rural Va, you'd be OK most places. The cities and especially the burbs, NO,

The bottom line is, if it's concealed, no one can see it and unseen is legal until you get caught.
Play with it in front of the wrong cop and you get to meet Bubba!

I know 229, I know...that's bad. No citizenship award this year

Peter.. your killing me!!!! :lol:

That knife is not really a big deal. It is basically a "knife" with a sheath.I do not see anywhere in the code that covers it except a razor... but it is not a razor.

Funny that you cannot have a razor concealed but you can have aregular knife. Go figure on that one.

§ knucks, or blackjack;

If I find one on a person... gonna have to let them go. I know the courts get nitty gritty on the description. I know what the intent was... but the code cannot possibly fit all knives.

 

[nemo]

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LEO 229 wrote:

§ knucks, or blackjack;

If I find one on a person... gonna have to let them go. I know the courts get nitty gritty on the description. I know what the intent was... but the code cannot possibly fit all knives.

LEO, you remind me that I have wondered about carrying a sap/blackjack. From your comment, above, I assume that they are legal in VA? Otherwise, where are they covered in VA law?

TIA.

 

[peter nap]

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I'm trying to suggest on the safe side 229.

Not all LEO's are like you:shock:
I've seen people arrested for all sorts of edged weapons. The worst I ever saw was in Henrico where a man was arrested for having an ordinary steak knife in his backpack.

It all depends on where you are and how badly they want to arrest you. Hell, they're giving tickets for tossing cigarette butts.

It wouldn't help much if he went to court and told the Judge "But Peter Nap said it was Legal".:lol:

I saw a fellow in court who bought an Ultralight plane and crashed it the day he bought it. He got a ticket for no Va. pilots license. His defense was the ad that said "No license needed".
He lost!

 

[peter nap]

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nemo wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

§ knucks, or blackjack;

If I find one on a person... gonna have to let them go. I know the courts get nitty gritty on the description. I know what the intent was... but the code cannot possibly fit all knives.

LEO, you remind me that I have wondered about carrying a sap/blackjack. From your comment, above, I assume that they are legal in VA? Otherwise, where are they covered in VA law?

TIA.

NO!



§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.



http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

 

[LEO 229]

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peter nap wrote:

I'm trying to suggest on the safe side 229.

Not all LEO's are like you:shock:
I've seen people arrested for all sorts of edged weapons. The worst I ever saw was in Henrico where a man was arrested for having an ordinary steak knife in his backpack.

It all depends on where you are and how badly they want to arrest you. Hell, they're giving tickets for tossing cigarette butts.

It wouldn't help much if he went to court and told the Judge "But Peter Nap said it was Legal".:lol:

I saw a fellow in court who bought an Ultralight plane and crashed it the day he bought it. He got a ticket for no Va. pilots license. His defense was the ad that said "No license needed".
He lost!

I was just yanking your chain Peter...

I have seen some cops charge for small knives and such. They are green and wet behind the ears. They do mean well but do not know exactly what the code says.

It takes senior guys like me to mold them into what is proper and what is not a big deal. I can only get to them one at a time.

And BTW... I write tickets to those that toss cigarette butts out the window. I hate that!!

 

[peter nap]

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LEO 229 wrote:

peter nap wrote: And BTW... I write tickets to those that toss cigarette butts out the window. I hate that!!

You Dog, I smoke non filters. They're completely biodegradable.
Might have had something to do with that pesky heart attack though.

 

[eyesopened]

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Thank gawd someone writes tickets for people who toss butts out of windows. I hate seeing it while driving, and hate it 10x more when riding a motorcycle.

LEO 229 as far as I can tell online, VA doesn't have anylaws against the open assist knives like Kershaw's Speed Safe system. What's your take on it?

 

[peter nap]

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eyesopened wrote:

Thank gawd someone writes tickets for people who toss butts out of windows. I hate seeing it while driving, and hate it 10x more when riding a motorcycle.

LEO 229 as far as I can tell online, VA doesn't have anylaws against the open assist knives like Kershaw's Speed Safe system. What's your take on it?

Check the links in this thread. The definitions all require a "latch" or "Button" to be considered an automatic or switchblade. To date, I have not found any restrictions on them.

 

[eyesopened]

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peter nap wrote:

eyesopened wrote:

Thank gawd someone writes tickets for people who toss butts out of windows. I hate seeing it while driving, and hate it 10x more when riding a motorcycle.

LEO 229 as far as I can tell online, VA doesn't have anylaws against the open assist knives like Kershaw's Speed Safe system. What's your take on it?

Check the links in this thread. The definitions all require a "latch" or "Button" to be considered an automatic or switchblade. To date, I have not found any restrictions on them.

Yup, that's what I've read too but just wanted a LEO viewpoint on it. Kershaw gets around the wording by having the latch/stud on the actual blade rather than on the handle. I know a PWC LEO who has the benchmark "infidel" blade. I'd love to own one, but it'd be pointless if I can't legally take it out of my house :lol:

 

[peter nap]

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eyesopened wrote:

peter nap wrote:

eyesopened wrote:

Thank gawd someone writes tickets for people who toss butts out of windows. I hate seeing it while driving, and hate it 10x more when riding a motorcycle.

LEO 229 as far as I can tell online, VA doesn't have anylaws against the open assist knives like Kershaw's Speed Safe system. What's your take on it?

Check the links in this thread. The definitions all require a "latch" or "Button" to be considered an automatic or switchblade. To date, I have not found any restrictions on them.

Yup, that's what I've read too but just wanted a LEO viewpoint on it. Kershaw gets around the wording by having the latch/stud on the actual blade rather than on the handle. I know a PWC LEO who has the benchmark "infidel" blade. I'd love to own one, but it'd be pointless if I can't legally take it out of my house :lol:

Actually, a latch wouldn't work. I copied one of the SOG's once using the tail on the tang instead of the thumb stud. The blade has to be moved physically an eighth of an inch or so before the assist can take over.
The picture of it may still be floating around on bladeforums.

 

[67GT390FB]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Peter.. your killing me!!!! :lol:

That knife is not really a big deal. It is basically a "knife" with a sheath.I do not see anywhere in the code that covers it except a razor... but it is not a razor.

Funny that you cannot have a razor concealed but you can have aregular knife. Go figure on that one.

§ knucks, or blackjack;

If I find one on a person... gonna have to let them go. I know the courts get nitty gritty on the description. I know what the intent was... but the code cannot possibly fit all knives.

i think they arerefering to thisthis type of razor:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_razor

they used to be real popular for self defense

not this type:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_razor

 

[peter nap]

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That makes sense.
I have never found a holster to fit my razor::celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

 

[DrMark]

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Assisted opening knives like many of the Kershaws are, in general, not considered switchblades because one has to physically start the blade opening motion. By most definitions, a switchblade's blade will open on its own when a catch holding the blade is released.

 

[alnitak]

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peter nap wrote:

§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.



http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

A couple of questions on automatics and butterfly knives, asking for clarification:

1) Automatic knives (i.e., those that are button operated) are illegal to carry, open or concealed. You are allowed to own them, but if you carry them, you are presumed to be selling it, which is illegal. Correct? In your opinion, how would a double-action knife, like the Lone Wolf D2, with a thumb stud for opening and no (obvious) button be viewed?

2) Butterfly knives cannot be concealed because there are of "like" construction to either a dirk or Bowie. What about my Benchmade Model 43 (Bowie blade) that has a pocket clip? Can I can carry that openly, clipped to my pocket (since it is not a switchblade nor ballistic knife)?

3) With the broad definition of "like", i.e., a fixed blade, single edge sharpened, and point, wouldn't all knives that lock (including lock-back, liner-lock, and frame-lock styles) fit this description, and consequently, couldn't be carried concealed (say, in a pocket)?

4) Where do the CRKT M16-14SF and M21-14SF knives fall as weapons, since the dual opening flippers serve as a mini-hilt when the knife is opened, and the blades lock with the AutoLAWKS system?

Thanks for your clarification.

Bruce

 

[Enigma]

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Hey! Let's play "which if these things is legal".

Speaking of the CRKT M16 there's my M16-14T everyday carry at the bottom. Makes a great box opener.

 

[mkl]

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alnitak wrote:

2) Butterfly knives cannot be concealed because there are of "like" construction to either a dirk or Bowie. What about my Benchmade Model 43 (Bowie blade) that has a pocket clip? Can I can carry that openly, clipped to my pocket (since it is not a switchblade nor ballistic knife)?

WAYNE THOMPSON V COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA

"Although the evidence is sufficient to prove that
Thompson's butterfly knife is a "weapon," it is insufficient as
a matter of law to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the
particular knife at issue is "of like kind" to a dirk or any
other weapon enumerated in Code § 18.2-308(A). The conclusion
of the trial court, acting as the trier of fact, that Thompson's
butterfly knife is "of like kind" to a dirk is plainly wrong and
without evidence to support it."

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1080445.pdf

 

[VAopencarry]

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I love it when people revive a thread that has been dead for a year just to stroke their ego,