Muslim shop owner has no problem with my open carry

[Stretch]

Sweet, four pages over an adjective. You can bet from now on I’ll never be descriptive again.

I am going to +1 the non-descriptive, adjective-less entry above. Because we need to be, you know, pc.

 

[Sparky508]

Rewrite of the OP

Figured I would take the liberty to rewrite this for the PC folks.

Went somewhere, talked to somebody, and they may or may not have had a problem with me doing something, or not.

 

[marshaul]

Simply put if you have spent some time reading a few of the anti-muslim expressions by a few of the other posters (especially in the social lounge mosque threads) I would like them to see muslim Americans in another light than their closed minds.

I just want to reiterate SVG's original, stated reason for his decision to use the disputed descriptor.

Seems quite reasonable to me. I liked his story, and his use of descriptions made it all the more vivid, real, and interesting.

And I think his motives are valid, even appropriate. Especially when one considers that there has been more question of his use of the word "muslim" as a value-free descriptor than there has been of DEROS's display of unambiguous and blind hatred (which the mere sight of that word apparently prompted).

A few folks seem to feel that the only time it's appropriate to identify someone as a muslim is if they're a terrorist. In light of this, SVG had the right idea.

 

[Deleted_User]

I just want to reiterate SVG's original, stated reason for his decision to use the disputed descriptor.

Seems quite reasonable to me. I liked his story, and his use of descriptions made it all the more vivid, real, and interesting.

And I think his motives are valid, even appropriate. Especially when one considers that there has been more question of his use of the word "muslim" as a value-free descriptor than there has been of DEROS's display of unambiguous and blind hatred (which the mere sight of that word apparently prompted).

A few folks seem to feel that the only time it's appropriate to identify someone as a muslim is if they're a terrorist. In light of this, SVG had the right idea.

Give it a rest already

 

[Trigger Dr]

Sweet, four pages over an adjective. You can bet from now on I’ll never be descriptive again.

 

[amlevin]

Nice. BTW, where is old "Bear"?

 

[okiephlyer]

They are all liers and if she was American she would denounce that crap .There is not one that can be trusted.They all put on a happy face when in front of them .We will not have it in America.People in this country have become a bunch of PC whiney tolerant wimps.When people come to America it is up to them to become American and adapt to us not us tolerating there ways.Especially when they attack us and still attack.Look at the muslim world they live like animals and you want to tolerate that here.???Baffles me.

http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/

ADMINISTRATORS COMMENTS: Once again ... We ask the public to not condemn all law-abiding citizens for the actions of the few criminals who misuse firearms. We should extend the same courtesy to Muslims. None of us support radicals who hate America or who wish to destroy our judicial system with Sharia but that is NOT all muslims. Please narrow your comments accordingly.

When some wacko uses a gun and commits acts of violence on an unarmed group, every one of us will come out against the criminal. I have not seen that same reaction from the muslim community. They are deafeningly silent on the issue. I will have to agree to a large extent with what deros is saying. The problem as I see it is the duplicity of the muslim community. They want to loudly denounce any and all criticism and critique of their way of life. At the same time, they provide aid and comfort to and/or refuse to denounce the muslim groups that are still trying to kill Americans, or any freedom loving people. When a large part of the muslim community starts publicly denouncing the radical extremists groups, then I will be more even minded towards muslims in general.

 

[marshaul]

Give it a rest already

Absolutely not. I have done nothing for which I feel inclined to "give it a rest".

You can place the blame where it belongs (with DEROS), and you can do the right thing (which is "loudly denouncing" his crap), but you have absolutely no call to tell me what to do, especially having failed in the aforementioned. I am in the right, I know it, and I will not "give it a rest" because you tell me to. I might "give it a rest" the day that my views are not more loudly denounced that those shared with us by DEROS.

And you can take your insinuations and (read the t-shirt on the big dude above). You don't have to agree with me, but you might take a look at my join date before calling me a "troll". I am as dedicated to this movement as anybody here. Or perhaps you think I'd be posting this much over this issue if I wasn't?

 

[marshaul]

When some wacko uses a gun and commits acts of violence on an unarmed group, every one of us will come out against the criminal. I have not seen that same reaction from the muslim community. They are deafeningly silent on the issue. I will have to agree to a large extent with what deros is saying. The problem as I see it is the duplicity of the muslim community. They want to loudly denounce any and all criticism and critique of their way of life. At the same time, they provide aid and comfort to and/or refuse to denounce the muslim groups that are still trying to kill Americans, or any freedom loving people. When a large part of the muslim community starts publicly denouncing the radical extremists groups, then I will be more even minded towards muslims in general.

I don't know what you think I've done to loudly denounce Jared Lee Loughner, but it isn't squat.

Sure, if you ask me, I'll tell you what I think of the guy, and it isn't nice.

But as far as I am concerned, he doesn't represent me, and has nothing to do with me, other than being a white guy with a gun, and so I see no reason to implicitly associate myself with him by "loudly denouncing" him as though I have something in common with him which I desperately must deny.

I'm sure most Muslims feel the same way about terrorists.

What you expect just isn't reasonable, or fair. Nor is your suggestion that anybody else would do it accurate.

Do you expect most Christians to spend their lives "loudly denouncing" the horrible acts committed in the name of their religion? I mean, who cares that it's in the past, right? They provide aid and comfort to and/or refuse to denounce the Christian groups that did all kinds of nasty things!

And that's another thing.

I missed the part in SVG's post where there were terrorists being given "and and comfort" in the t-shirt shop.

Being that the THOSE are the muslims we're talking about, and not some other, random muslims, what does your claim have to do with the actual reality being actually discussed in this thread?

 

[DevinWKuska]

When some wacko uses a gun and commits acts of violence on an unarmed group, every one of us will come out against the criminal. I have not seen that same reaction from the muslim community. They are deafeningly silent on the issue. I will have to agree to a large extent with what deros is saying. The problem as I see it is the duplicity of the muslim community. They want to loudly denounce any and all criticism and critique of their way of life. At the same time, they provide aid and comfort to and/or refuse to denounce the muslim groups that are still trying to kill Americans, or any freedom loving people. When a large part of the muslim community starts publicly denouncing the radical extremists groups, then I will be more even minded towards muslims in general.

With all due respect I STRONGLY suggest you do a little bit more research then listening to Hardcore liberal or conservative chatter. I know many people of the Islamic faith who will be the first to condemn Jihadist behavior. For those of the protestant backround, most people of Islamic faith will tell you the Jihadists of today would be like you going to the Old testament when God told the Israelites to slaughter every man/woman/child they came across. For a slightly more current example of terrorism from non-muslims I suggest you look to the 'Dirty South" where churches are still firebombed sometimes because of the color of skin of its attendees. Your statement is not only a general accusation its also incorrect.

There are many terrorist "cells" that are islamic(by sheer geographic location mind you). Normally when acts of terrorism are done many terrorist groups will call the govt/media to take credit(would you say this is correct?) after 9/11 it was almost a week before anyone took credit for it(maybe because we have BIG bombs and short fuses). Further more America was partly based on freedom of OPRESSION and RELIGION. If someone chooses to be Islamic, judaic, protestant, then so be it. Far be it from you or me to opress them by stereotyping them as terrorists and treating them as sub-standard people. SHAME ON YOU!

Do some research ESPECIALLY if you are of the protestant(Christian/catholic) faith or jewish(by blood or religion). Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all share the old testament. If you bother to study world religions you would note that islamic teachings dont tell people down with the US/whitepeople/christian/ect.

There I have said my peace... so... about those Grafitti style shirts?

 

[Deleted_User]

Absolutely not. I have done nothing for which I feel inclined to "give it a rest".

You can place the blame where it belongs (with DEROS), and you can do the right thing (which is "loudly denouncing" his crap), but you have absolutely no call to tell me what to do, especially having failed in the aforementioned. I am in the right, I know it, and I will not "give it a rest" because you tell me to. I might "give it a rest" the day that my views are not more loudly denounced that those shared with us by DEROS.

And you can take your insinuations and (read the t-shirt on the big dude above). You don't have to agree with me, but you might take a look at my join date before calling me a "troll". I am as dedicated to this movement as anybody here. Or perhaps you think I'd be posting this much over this issue if I wasn't?

Just for the record Spartacu .... I mean "Marshaul" Behavior makes a troll, not a "join date"

I sent a PM to cover the rest. Apologies to SVG for sidelining the thread.

 

[marshaul]

Just for the record Spartacu .... I mean "Marshaul" Behavior makes a troll, not a "join date"

I agree. Considering the topic of this forum is open carry of firearms, not hating muslims, I'd like for you to show how you think I've trolled.

What I've done is gotten pissed that our community has tolerated mindless hate, and it doesn't help that you're attacking me over it. Do you think you're going to get me to go away by trying to make it my fault?

In fact, thinking about the intended topic of both this forum and this thread, it's pretty undeniable that DEROS was the one trolling. And he nastily did so in a way he knew would derail this thread, because some of us simply won't be associated with that attitude and have little choice but to counter his BS, even though the result is the ruination of the thread.

If I have to be standing on the mountain screaming it like a fool, so be it. I cannot respect my own attempts to render firearms rights a "civil rights issue" if I allow this community to present itself as being undivided in its hate of others, and lack of respect for the civil rights of those others.

At least there is, for the record, strong dissent. I'm sorry that SVG's thread had to pay for it. I actually really, really liked his story. It warmed my heart. I guess I am whimsical like that.

Edit: PM is fine with me. I am fine to let it die so long as the issue isn't brought up again to the detriment of all muslims.

 

[Deleted_User]

I agree. Considering the topic of this forum is open carry of firearms, not hating muslims, I'd like for you to show how you think I've trolled.

What I've done is gotten pissed that our community has tolerated mindless hate, and it doesn't help that you're attacking me over it. Do you think you're going to get me to go away by trying to make it my fault?

I will take this to PM as to not further disrupt the open forum. I was a tad out of line.

Moving on .... I want my shirt in OD Green

 

[1911er]

I am somewhere talking to no one about everything {I am so confused}

 

[Deleted_User]

I am somewhere talking to no one about everything {I am so confused}

That's a thing of beauty +1

I am listening to no one talking about something I wasn't aware of until I didn't hear it clearly. I am now aware something is happening and I am not involved until I figure out what it is I am hearing, maybe.

 

[END_THE_FED]

If we insist on blaming an entire religion because some members of that religion attacked or killed Americans, it will not be long before we run out of people to like.

The initial thought of;
"The Muslim community should do more to denounce terrorism" sounds valid at first, but that is because we live in a region where we have relatively limited contact with Muslims.

If a group of folks, even a somewhat large group of folks that happen to be Christian start doing horrible acts against people because they are Catholic or Jewish, and claim to be doing it in the name of their religion. Do we expect Christians to go out of their way to denounce the acts? Of course not. Because we recognize they are such a small portion of that religion. We see this easily because Christianity is around us all the time.

We realize that an estimated 3o percent of the world is Cristian. To blame the actions of a few, even a few thousand on 30 percent of the world's population is absurd.

Now as you think about the above paragraphs you should realize that Islam is comprised of roughly 20% of the world's population. I don't believe for one second that 20% of the world wants to attack Americans. I don't believe for one second that 20% of the worlds population wants to live under "Sharia Law" themselves let alone force it upon others.

How many Christians want to live under a Law based solely on the laws of the bible? How many want to force it on others? I am betting it is a minority.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Picked up my shirt yesterday, I didn't get my patch though she wants me to design a better one and she'll put it on the shirt. Been a while since I been to the rez looks like I gotta go visit some of my more artistic cousins.

My cousin drove me there he did about 4 yrs. of service in Iraq and that has made him pretty jaded toward many muslims, he liked her, ordered the same shirt I bought, and she is making him a hat with an Iraqi veteran patch on it for him.

We ended up staying in there talking to her for over 1/2 hr. She is originally from Pakistan (been here for over 20 yrs I gathered), so has much in common culturally with many of the Indians (original India) and personally knows many of the folks I work for and have done work for. She being a shrewd business woman says she would be open for discount on multiple orders but wouldn't commit to any pricing.

 

[DevinWKuska]

That's a thing of beauty +1

I am listening to no one talking about something I wasn't aware of until I didn't hear it clearly. I am now aware something is happening and I am not involved until I figure out what it is I am hearing, maybe.

That sounds like classified information... I am not sure you should be sharing that with small women in clothing shops....

Did you see if they had "Grafitti" style shirts? Is she reasonably priced?

 

[amlevin]

That's a thing of beauty +1

I am listening to no one talking about something I wasn't aware of until I didn't hear it clearly. I am now aware something is happening and I am not involved until I figure out what it is I am hearing, maybe.

This sounds like a line from MASH. Col. Flagg usually said something this "clear and concise".

My favorite line of his:

"Don't play stupid with me, I'm better than you at it".

 

[gsx1138]

I'll throw gas on the fire. As one of, probably very few, atheists on these boards I have to agree with Sam Harris. The fundamentals of Islam are fundamentally wrong. If there was actual coherence with Christianity I'd say the same. but with 30,000 denominations they can fight amongst themselves.

That being said, it sounds like SVG had a nice conversation from one human to another. Plus, the shirt is awesome.