Police take my license

[armypilot]

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So here's the story

I'm on my way back home from Chili's in Wallingford. I stop at Bank of America on Route 5 five to make a $130 deposit. Apparently, someone had recently tried to tamper with thee drive through ATM at this branch. I'm carrying and I have had 3 beers in the past 2-2.5 hours. 2 of he 5 plain-clothed cops stop me when they see the Glock and IMMEDIATELY detain me. A friend and his girlfriend e in my car and he was driving. They pull all of us out, put me into a squad car, and question all three of us. I have my carry license on me and have 3 pistols in my trunk, from shooting earlier this week. They run the SN's on all 4 pistols and the come up clean, obviously. I'm repeatedly questioned and cross questioned by what my friends said (I'm in the squad car..you know the tactic..see if they stories are straight). The cops ask me if I had drank and I said, "yes, 3 beers within the past few hours...far from DUI levels, wanna test me?" they say that it's not necessary, we just want to make sure everything is legit. SO after 50 minutes of quesioning and calling in just about everythin they possibly can, I'm told that I'm free to go and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. All pistols, magazine, and the round that ws chambered are returned. I was a bit stressed and forgot to request my carry license, so I go back to the scene and am told they say that I must got to the police station to get my license back. SO, I got there, and after 30 minutes of waiting after being told "It'll be here shortly...", I'm told that I must call in the morning because they are holding it because..and I quote from the LT on duty at 12:28 PM on Mon morning, Sat July 25 2009, " your license is in question because you are intoxicated and you must call 203-294-2305 in the morning.

EXCUSE ME?! I told him that if I was drunk, I would have not been released because it is illegal to be intoxicated and carry. He said, "well, son, call in the morning" I'm 33 and served 10 years in the Army....son?!. Very degrading!

So here I am at 1:26 AM, with all my pistols in my possession but my license hijacked by the Wallingford PD. I need help and serious advice. I was NOT administered a breathalyzer, yet the STEAL my carry permit. I'm SURE it's gonna get "lost" somehow and I'm livid.

Now, I know a lot of y'all are gonna be sympathetic, and I appreciate it, but what do I do? I cannot afford a lawyer to fight this and now I cannot take me pistols anywhere because I might face arrest.

I'm angry and frustrated. I'm clearly the victim of "disarm the public"...an honest law-abiding armed citizen...to their own admission who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Please, I need advice and help!

 

[Citizen]

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Welcome to OCDO.

I know you don't want to talk to a lawyer, but I think I would. At least for an initial consultation.

 

[Edward Peruta]

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Under Connecticut law, you cannot carry if you are impaired with a blood alcohol level of .07 or above, orintoxicated with a blood level of .10 or above.

Under Connecticut law, local police officers CANNOT take a valid permit, and can only make a referral to the Special License and Firearms Unit of the Department of Safety who are required to condcut an investigation of the facts and circumstances and revoke if they find just cause to do so.

There was a similar situation that was herard by the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners out of Bristol where an individual was drinking beers in a bowling alley and was not arrested or given a blood alcohol or breath test. The board gave him his permit back.

There is an attorney in Wallingford named Craig Fishbein who is also running for a seat on the Wallingford Council. My suggestion is for you to contact him regarding this incident and see what happens.

Attorney Fishbein has demonstrated a great concern for 2nd amendment issues and is very good in this area of law.

attycraigfishbein@yahoo.com

http://www.fishbeinlaw.com/profile2.html

100 S Main St
Wallingford Center, CT 06492
(203) 265-2895

 

[Nutczak]

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I am curious how the police got into the trunk of your car? did you give consent for them to search?

They have no proof of intoxication since no test's were performed, any allaged evidence at this point is nothing but speculation and hearsay.

You could have done a much better job of exercising your rights. it is of no benefit to anyone (but the police) to answer their questions. they are fishing to find something to nail you for. I would also consider looking into rights violations attorneys that may want to pursue this.

the excuse of 'Wrong place at the wrong time" sounds like complete bull-schitt to me. They cannot expect to harrass everyone that uses the ATM.

 

[armypilot]

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I think the issue is more of the friend whom I was with telling them too much. He was a bit freaked out and I'm sure that's how they found out about the other pistols in my trunk. :banghead:

 

[Edward Peruta]

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Army Pilot,

I would immediately go to the Wallingford Police Depatment and ask to speak with the senior officer on duty. I would explain what happened and request the immediate return of the"VALID" permit that you were carrying "legally".

Make sure you have your facts and get the name of everyone you speak to.

If done properly, the senior officer may see the error and acknowledge the lack of authority by local officers to confiscate and he may return your permit promptly.

If the senior officer on duty refuses to return your permit, ask him to cite the statute that authorized the confiscation.

If necessary, ask him to contact any on duty member of the State Firearms Unit and make an inquiry regarding local authority to conficate legally possessed valid permits to carry.

Good Luck and here is the secion of state law that addresses confiscation of "ILLEGALLY" possessed permit.



Sec. 29-32. Revocation of permit. Notification. Confiscation. Penalty for failure to surrender permit. (a) For the purposes of this section, "conviction" means the entry of a judgment of conviction by any court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) Any state permit or temporary state permit for the carrying of any pistol or revolver may be revoked by the Commissioner of Public Safety for cause and shall be revoked by said commissioner upon conviction of the holder of such permit of a felony or of any misdemeanor specified in subsection (b) of section 29-28 or upon the occurrence of any event which would have disqualified the holder from being issued the state permit or temporary state permit pursuant to subsection (b) of section 29-28. Upon the revocation of any state permit or temporary state permit, the person whose state permit or temporary state permit is revoked shall be notified in writing and such state permit or temporary state permit shall be forthwith delivered to the commissioner. Any law enforcement authority shall confiscate and immediately forward to the commissioner any state permit or temporary state permit that is illegally possessed by any person. The commissioner may revoke the state permit or temporary state permit based upon the commissioner's own investigation or upon the request of any law enforcement agency. Any person who fails to surrender any permit within five days of notification in writing of revocation thereof shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.




(c) Any local permit for the carrying of a pistol or revolver issued prior to October 1, 2001, may be revoked by the authority issuing the same for cause, and shall be revoked by the authority issuing the same upon conviction of the holder of such permit of a felony or of any misdemeanor specified in subsection (b) of section 29-28 or upon the occurrence of any event which would have disqualified the holder from being issued such local permit. Upon the revocation of any local permit, the person whose local permit is revoked shall be notified in writing and such permit shall be forthwith delivered to the authority issuing the same. Upon the revocation of any local permit, the authority issuing the same shall forthwith notify the commissioner. Upon the revocation of any permit issued by the commissioner, the commissioner shall forthwith notify any local authority which the records of the commissioner show as having issued a currently valid local permit to the holder of the permit revoked by the commissioner. Any person who fails to surrender such permit within five days of notification in writing or revocation thereof shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.

 

[armypilot]

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Edward,

I wanted to thank you for this information so far. I will be heading to the police station shortly.

 

[Lenny Benedetto]

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Ed,

I just want to say that I am glad that you are on OUR side!!!

Lenny

CCDL Founding Member

 

[Lenny Benedetto]

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armypilot

I think that you would be interested in joining the "Connecticut Citizens defense League" CCDL.

At the moment you can find us on Facebook by going to http://www.ccdl.us

We have monthly meetings, every 2nd Tuesday of the month.

We are in the process of forming the organization now, when we complete this we will be fighting for gun owner rights in Ct.

Please keep us informed on your permit!!!

Thanks

Lenny

CCDL Founding Member

 

[armypilot]

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So I go to the police station with the printed out advice that Ed suggested. I sit in the parking lot for a moment to center myself cause y'all know they aren't going to give it back to me and I want to make sure that I am focused and not lose my composure.

I ask to speak to the senior office and she said "I'm her". I give her a brief synopsis of what happened last night and she tells me that the town special bureau handles things like this (she seemed to not be aware of the incident last night) and they are not operating on weekends, "but let me check and see if one of the officers on the bureau in in the station". About 30 seconds later, the female officer who took my carry license walks out and hands my my license back and says the following:

"You guys drove away last night and I realized I still had your license in my pocket and thought 'oh s**t'. I'm sorry about this.

:what:

Not only did I NOT have to fight to get it back but actually got an apology.

I'm feeling much better about Wallingford PD because I know all too many PD abuse their powers and violate citizen's rights, especially when concerned with 2nd amendment issues.

Clearly the 6 or so Wallingford officers last night knew and respected my right to open carry. So what I've learned from this experience.

• Do not resist
• Comply with their requests.
• Ask them repeatedly and politely what law you have violated and if you are under arrest
• Allow them to disarm you while being questioned if they wish (the officer actually asked me if he could disarm me and I did consent to that)
• Keep your composure
• Know what your rights are and don't let them tell you otherwise (one of the officers told me that I couldn't open carry and I responded that I have the right to and there was no stature stating I couldn't. It was never mentioned again)
• Expect to be put in a squad car while they call your info in and to be treated like you've done something wrong
• Wish them a good evening when they let you exit the car and say that you are free to go, as they hand you your weapon back
• :exclaim:reacquire your carry permit BEFORE you drive off!:exclaim:

 

[Lenny Benedetto]

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Great news!!

I am very happy for you that it all got worked out so easily!!!

 

[Edward Peruta]

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To Army Pilot,

Glad everything worked out ok, I think it's a positive experience for everyone to read this string and realize that we all can make mistakes.

Have a wonderful weekend, and enjoy open carrying in CT.

Ed Peruta

USMC Grunt 66-69

 

[Citizen]

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armypilot wrote:

SNIP

• Do not resist
• Comply with their requests whilepolitely, verbally, refusing consent.
• Ask them repeatedly and politely what law you have violated and if you are under arrest
• Allow them to disarm you while being questioned if they wish (the officer actually asked me if he could disarm me and I did consent to that)
• Keep your composure
• Know what your rights are and don't let them tell you otherwise (one of the officers told me that I couldn't open carry and I responded that I have the right to and there was no stature stating I couldn't. It was never mentioned again)
• Expect to be put in a squad car while they call your info in and to be treated like you've done something wrong
• Wish them a good evening when they let you exit the car and say that you are free to go, as they hand you your weapon back
• :exclaim:reacquire your carry permit BEFORE you drive off!:exclaim:

Glad it turned out so very well in the end.

As you gain experience here, you will learn more about your 4th Amendment rights (prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure).

I added just a bit to your list, addition in red.

Don't let your relief at getting your permit back make you over-grateful. Review the event and see if there were things that might have violated your 4A rights.

One obvious contradiction is the police told you that you have to come to the station to get your license back, then you go to the station to get it and the police adopt the position they forgot to give it to you. Something is fishy.

Also, I wouldn't breathe any sighs of relief just yet. Not until I confirmed that the police can't or won't forward a report to whichever authority can revoke your license. I would be on guard on this point. Really check into whether the police can still get your license revoked.

 

[PRO2ND]

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Glad it worked out.

 

[GoldCoaster]

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Wait a minute!

In your initial well written description of the stop/detainment you said they told you:

BUT they say that I must got to the police station to get my license back. SO, I got there, and after 30 minutes of waiting after being told "It'll be here shortly...", I'm told that I must call in the morning because they are holding it because..and I quote from the LT on duty at 12:28 PM on Mon morning, Sat July 25 2009, " your license is in question because you are intoxicated and you must call

203-294-2305

and the office is closed.

And by license I'm assuming you mean your CT permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

Today, the Wallingford PD police woman told you:

"You guys drove away last night and I realized I still had your license in my pocket and thought 'oh s**t'. I'm sorry about this.

So someone is lying here and I don't think it's you. They took your permit, they hung on to it and told you at the time you had to go to the station to get it.. now they claim "Oh I forgot to give it to you, my bad" that's not good enough.

Ed listed the statute - the only way your permit can be taken away from you is with due process. Snagging it at the bank is not due process it is theft.

I'd not be as inclined to call Wallingfords finest the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm glad you got your permit back, your pistols weren't taken, and nobody got jammed up.

Perhaps you and your friends should sit down and watch this.. perhaps a couple of times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

Anything you say can and WILL be used against you. Don't offer up anything you don't have to.

Thanks for posting and please consider coming to one of our CCDL meetings, we are a good group
and are working towards being THE 2nd amendment (or article 15 of the CT Constitution) group in the
state.

Robert

 

[MGoduto]

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armypilot wrote:

So here's the story

I'm on my way back home from Chili's in Wallingford. I stop at Bank of America on Route 5 five to make a $110 deposit an apparently someone had recently tried to tamper with thee drive through ATM at this branch. I'm carrying and I have had 3 bud lights in the past hour (I weight 230 lbs ..and I am sober) and 2 undercover cops stop me and see my Glock peeking out of my shirt and IMMEDIATELY detain me. A friend and his girlfriend are driving my car and they pull all of us out, throw me into a squad car, and question all three of us. I have my license on me and have 4 pistols in my trunk, from shoot earlier this week. the, of course, run the SN's on them and the come up clean. I'm repeatedly questioned and cross questioned by what my friends said (I'm in the squad car..you know the tactic..see if it is legit). The cops ask me if I had drank and I said, "yes, 3 beers in 1 hours...far from DUI levels, and the law says that I'm fine as ling as I'm not illegally drunk, wanna test me?" they say that it's not necessary, we just want to make sure everything is legit. SO after 50 minutes of harassment and an explanation of "you were in the wrong place at the wrong time", they let me and all my pistols go home BUT they say that I must got to the police station to get my license back. SO, I got there, and after 30 minutes of waiting after being told "It'll be here shortly...", I'm told that I must call in the morning because they are holding it because..and I quote from the LT on duty at 12:28 PM on Mon morning, Sat July 25 2009, " your license is in question because you are intoxicated and you must call 203-294-2305 and the office is closed.

EXCUSE ME?! I told him that if I was drunk (after 3 bud lights), I would have not been released because it is illegal to be intoxicated and carry. He said, "well ,son, call in the morning" I am 33 and served 10 years in the Army....son?!.

So here I am at 1:26 AM, with all my pistols in my possession but my license hijacked by the Wallingford PD. I need help and serious advice. I was NOT administered a sobriety test (for which I would have clearly passed) and I repeated, as I was locked back in a squad car...that this is what I get for being an armed and concerned citizen, as they ran every tidbit on info and I obviously came up clear, yet the STEAL my carry permit. I'm SURE it's gonna get "lost" somehow and I'm livid.

Now, I know a lot of y'all are gonna be sympathetic, and I appreciate it, but what do I do? I cannot afford a lawyer to fight this and now I cannot take me pistols anywhere because I might face arrest.

I'm pissed, disgusted, and part of me wants to cry because I feel like I'm naked. I'm clearly the victim and they are looking for some excuse to disarm me...an honest armed citizen..l.to their own admission who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Please, I need advice and help!

-James

Wow!!

I work in Wallingford (for the past 6+ years) and have wanted to talk to a local cop about their views on open carry and armed citizens in general. After reading about this clusterf***I'm not sure that I want anything to do with Wallingford PD.

I'm glad that it seems to have worked out for you James, but I'd stillbe pissed.

Isn't carrying without having your permit in your possession just an infraction with a small fine??

mg

 

[armypilot]

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Initially, I was angry about the situation. Yesterday, after having gotten the carry license back, I was thrilled. Now, I'm somewhere halfway in between. I'm trying to digest everything.

Is there any way something might be "brewing in the background" and what could it be?

 

[Edward Peruta]

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Army Pilot,

As I previously posted, there was a similar incident out of Bristol where they madea referral to DPS Special License and Firearms Unit and the individuals permit was revoked. At the hearing, the board questioned the officers involved and determined that withoutconducting a field sobriety test or Breathalyzer, there was no just cause for the revocation and ordered the permitreturned. The individual was represented by Attorney Ralph Sherman from New Britain.

My suggestion would be to make an inquiry to Wallingford P.D.AND theDPS Firearms unit on Monday regarding the facts of the incident and determine if any further action is planned.

When you call the firearms unit, speak to Sgt. Douglas Hallwho is the Executive Officer and I'm sure you will get a straight response.

I don't believe under the circumstancesthat Wallingford will be making any referrals, butcounsel you to makecontact and put this incident to rest.

If they wanted to take action regarding your consumption of alcohol while carrying your weapon, they would have done so on scene.

I could be wrong but don't believe you should worry.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend and Private Message or email me if you find out anything negative.

Ed Peruta

edperuta@amcable.tv

 

[PT111]

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armypilot wrote:

Initially, I was angry about the situation. Yesterday, after having gotten the carry license back, I was thrilled. Now, I'm somewhere halfway in between. I'm trying to digest everything.

Is there any way something might be "brewing in the background" and what could it be?

Your story reminds me of the ending scene of Electra Glide in Blue. If you have seen it you know what I am talking about, if you haven't you need to rent it. For me it was probably one of the most disturbing scenes in any movie I have ever watched.

 

[bjr229]

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armypilot wrote:

So here's the story

I'm on my way back home from Chili's in Wallingford. I stop at Bank of America on Route 5 five to make a $110 deposit an apparently someone had recently tried to tamper with thee drive through ATM at this branch. I'm carrying and I have had 3 bud lights in the past hour (I weight 230 lbs ..and I am sober) and 2 undercover cops stop me and see my Glock peeking out of my shirt and IMMEDIATELY detain me. A friend and his girlfriend are driving my car and they pull all of us out, throw me into a squad car, and question all three of us. I have my license on me and have 4 pistols in my trunk, from shoot earlier this week. the, of course, run the SN's on them and the come up clean. I'm repeatedly questioned and cross questioned by what my friends said (I'm in the squad car..you know the tactic..see if it is legit). The cops ask me if I had drank and I said, "yes, 3 beers in 1 hours...far from DUI levels, and the law says that I'm fine as ling as I'm not illegally drunk, wanna test me?" they say that it's not necessary, we just want to make sure everything is legit. SO after 50 minutes of harassment and an explanation of "you were in the wrong place at the wrong time", they let me and all my pistols go home BUT they say that I must got to the police station to get my license back. SO, I got there, and after 30 minutes of waiting after being told "It'll be here shortly...", I'm told that I must call in the morning because they are holding it because..and I quote from the LT on duty at 12:28 PM on Mon morning, Sat July 25 2009, " your license is in question because you are intoxicated and you must call 203-294-2305 and the office is closed.

EXCUSE ME?! I told him that if I was drunk (after 3 bud lights), I would have not been released because it is illegal to be intoxicated and carry. He said, "well ,son, call in the morning" I am 33 and served 10 years in the Army....son?!.

So here I am at 1:26 AM, with all my pistols in my possession but my license hijacked by the Wallingford PD. I need help and serious advice. I was NOT administered a sobriety test (for which I would have clearly passed) and I repeated, as I was locked back in a squad car...that this is what I get for being an armed and concerned citizen, as they ran every tidbit on info and I obviously came up clear, yet the STEAL my carry permit. I'm SURE it's gonna get "lost" somehow and I'm livid.

Now, I know a lot of y'all are gonna be sympathetic, and I appreciate it, but what do I do? I cannot afford a lawyer to fight this and now I cannot take me pistols anywhere because I might face arrest.

I'm pissed, disgusted, and part of me wants to cry because I feel like I'm naked. I'm clearly the victim and they are looking for some excuse to disarm me...an honest armed citizen..l.to their own admission who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Please, I need advice and help!

-James

I see that you were legal in your state, and I certainly hope for you that this turns out the best.

I think that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than the law requires in this case. The responsibility of carrying a lethal weapon is a serious one. A zero tolerance policy for guns and alcohol is the best way to ensure that we make the right choices. I am not saying you shouldn't drink at all, but when you choose to, first lock the guns away out of reach.

Should you ever need to use the weapon, it is one less line for the prosecutors to pursue if you are totally sober. This is also what is taught in the CCW classes here in Idaho.

Brian