• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Rifle Caliber Pistols for the Vehicle

Resdon111

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
48
Location
Sussex, WI
So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)
"Handgun" means any weapon designed or redesigned, or made or remade, and intended to be fired while held in one hand and to use the energy of an explosive to expel a projectile through a smooth or rifled bore. "Handgun" does not include a machine gun, as defined in s. 941.27 (1), a short-barreled rifle, as defined in s. 941.28 (1) (b), or a short-barreled shotgun, as defined in s. 941.28 (1) (c).
I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
 

mja1000

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
22
Location
Dodgeville, Wisconsin, USA
Remember....in another week we'll be able to carry an UNLOADED uncased rifle in a vehicle. Why not go with a full blown M4 at that point? doesn't take long to drop in a magazine and hit the bolt release....just make sure your mounting solution is lockable....to avoid issues with those pesky GFSZs.
 

Grant Guess

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
217
Location
Wisconsin, United States
Technically, you may have a weapon registered as a pistol with a barrel less than 16". Contenders, XP100's, Savage Strykers and similar would apply.

It becomes kind of sticky with an AR lower if it was originally registered as a rifle.
 

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
Remember....in another week we'll be able to carry an UNLOADED uncased rifle in a vehicle. Why not go with a full blown M4 at that point? doesn't take long to drop in a magazine and hit the bolt release....just make sure your mounting solution is lockable....to avoid issues with those pesky GFSZs.
A full blown M4 is too difficult to manuver inside a vehicle.
 

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
If your AR was sold as a pistol, I see no issue with carry. It should also be fine in your car (with permit as of now I guess).
Not so sure how you would carry it though, but thats just me.

If I had an AR pistol, I might keep it in the car from time to time.
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)


I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...WTF
View attachment 7383
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
The Kel-Tec PLR-16 Is A Fine Choice...

So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)


I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
I've had mine for a year or so and it is one heck of a pistol. It's gas piston operated (not direct gas impingement) and it shoots well. I would suggest you get the flash hider/suppressor for it from Kel-Tec and perhaps the sling kit for it as well as the fore end grips. Those items will set you back another hundred or so but well worth it. Without the fore end grips you stand the chance to "accidentally" grab the barrel after or during shooting....it hurts!

As for an AR-15 pistol you can build one or buy one. There are many out there but all that I have seen use direct gas impingement except for the Oly Arms...I think it is gas piston driven and it really isn't an AR. IMHO the Kel-Tec PLR-16 takes the cake for what you get for your money. Keep in mind to never add grip/handle to any pistol's fore end...then it becomes either an SBR requiring NFA paperwork. If you do decide to build your own AR-15 pistol I suggest getting the upper assembly complete from Rock River Arms. Their upper pistol assemblies are marked "Pistol Only". When buying an AR-15 lower for your pistol build make sure it is designated as "Handgun" on the 4473 paperwork and ask for a copy of the 4473 to be on the safe side.


Link:http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf See Section B, question 18.

If you have any questions about building an AR-15 pistol please PM me.
 

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Don't put a grip on it ... that would make it an SBR under NFA rules.
AOW, actually (and there is some controversy over that - one federal court has ruled that adding a grip to a pistol doesn't make it an AOW because it was originally designed (as a pistol) to be fired with one hand). The proverbial jury is still out on whether this is valid or not.

SBR would apply if you put a shoulder stock on it.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,856
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Technically, you may have a weapon registered as a pistol with a barrel less than 16". Contenders, XP100's, Savage Strykers and similar would apply.

It becomes kind of sticky with an AR lower if it was originally registered as a rifle.
There is no registration in WI, there is only a transfer from a FFL to a non-FFL.
To avoid a felony according to the letter of the law, if it was originally assembled with a shoulder stock on it, it is forever a rifle or a SBR. If it was originally assembled as a handgun, you are free to put a 16" barrel and a stock on it and then switch back to a handgun configuration as many times as you wish so long as it never has a stock and a less than 16" barrel assembled at the same time. In other words, if you have a bare lower, since it was transferred as a receiver, "other" you simply have to make it a handgun first. For T/C rifles you may never make them a handgun but for T/C handguns you may switch back and forth.
The potential advantage of having it transferred as a handgun whether it is an AR or a T/C is that you have the paperwork stating such.
 

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
All this talk about an SBR sure does make me want the permit for one...
Any idea what the price for the permit is?
There is no "permit" to have them.

You simply have to pay the $200 transfer tax every time one is bought or sold (and jump through the other paperwork/fingerprint hoops).

FWIW, an AOW is $200 when created "Dear BATFE, I want to put a foregrip on my AR pistol.", but only $5 to transfer "I want to buy this AR pistol with a vertical foregrip on it."

Of course, whoever's selling said AOW has probably factored the tax he paid into his selling price. (shrug)

Oh. And you'll probably wait nearly the statutory maximum (or longer) for processing, whether it's the 1st or 1001st NFA transfer you make.
 
Last edited:

Resdon111

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
48
Location
Sussex, WI
If your AR was sold as a pistol, I see no issue with carry. It should also be fine in your car (with permit as of now I guess).
Not so sure how you would carry it though, but thats just me.

If I had an AR pistol, I might keep it in the car from time to time.
No way I'd try to carry it. Though I have seen some decent holsters for AR pistols. Purely a gun to stay in the truck.

Lurichon said:
It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...WTF
Not sure if your comment is in jest or not, so I'll cover the base and say NO WAY! Purely a defensive purpose. I believe that if one is going to fight, they should have something to fight back to. Bruatlity trumped by greater brutality and all that. Besides, I'm a hunter's safety instructor, I know better. :)
 
Last edited:

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,856
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...
Regarding "true" hunting, so long as you exit your vehicle and shoot at least 50 ft from the road centerline, road hunting is no less legitimate than sitting in a building (hunting stand) with heat, etc in the middle of the woods or on the edge of a field and hoping that a stupid animal happens to wander within the considerable range of your rifle......:dude:
 
Last edited:
Top