Shoplifter Detainment

[Montanya]

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Only once has a bag checker at a Best Buy INSISTED ON seeing my recipt. I had about 250$ worth if items in my bag that I purchased. I informed him it was my property at this point since I had paid for it and did not have to let him see it. He said they would assume I stole it if I didn't sooo...I tell him he can follow me over to customer service then while I empty all the items out of my bag. When I do he matches it to the recipt and says everything checks out. I then look at the person at the service desk and inform him I wish to return all these items because the guy at the door treated me like a shoplifter. The manager tried to apologize and turn the "corporate policy" thing. Like I told them, if you SAW me take something I can see you wanting to search my bags but to WATCH me walk the 3 feet from the register to the door and insist on searching my bag....screw you.

 

[boohickey11]

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I wondered if the citizens arrest issue would come up. The merchant need only have "probable cause" to apprehend someone. For a citizens arrest there must be a felony committed "in fact".

 

[Wynder]

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N00blet45 wrote:

Just because I have the right to do something doesn't mean it is prudent to do it.

Like carrying a gun?

That argument is the mainstay of LEO's and anti's the country over... If you don't want your rights, don't assert them. But then, don't begrudge those that do.

 

[N00blet45]

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Wynder wrote:

N00blet45 wrote:

Just because I have the right to do something doesn't mean it is prudent to do it.

Like carrying a gun?

That argument is the mainstay of LEO's and anti's the country over... If you don't want your rights, don't assert them. But then, don't begrudge those that do.

But it's up to you to decide. The gun grabbers can argue all they want that you don'tNEED to carry but it's up to you to decide if you WANT to carry. Your rights do not need to be justified to be exercised, hence the word right and not privilege.

I may want to carry a gun into a post office, and according to the constitution it is my right but I also don't want to go to jail. I weigh thereward against the riskand I determine that I'll just go to UPS instead (they have better prices usually anyways).

Similarly it may be my right to resist an unlawful arrest but when the officer has his weapon pointed at my head I may decide that my life is not worth resisting an arrest that I could fight in court.

As the saying goes, "Discretion is the better part of valor."

 

[Erus]

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Montanya wrote:

Only once has a bag checker at a Best Buy INSISTED ON seeing my recipt. I had about 250$ worth if items in my bag that I purchased. I informed him it was my property at this point since I had paid for it and did not have to let him see it. He said they would assume I stole it if I didn't sooo...I tell him he can follow me over to customer service then while I empty all the items out of my bag. When I do he matches it to the recipt and says everything checks out. I then look at the person at the service desk and inform him I wish to return all these items because the guy at the door treated me like a shoplifter. The manager tried to apologize and turn the "corporate policy" thing. Like I told them, if you SAW me take something I can see you wanting to search my bags but to WATCH me walk the 3 feet from the register to the door and insist on searching my bag....screw you.

I agree. Ok I am not in Ky, so maybe I should just shut up, but If I bought it and walked towards the door, it's mine and NOBODY but an LEO has any right to search it. (and only then if he has PC) I get that with club memberships, I agreed to this when I signed up, which is why I do not have any of those memberships any more.

I always tell the wallyworld door nazi's (when I have to go there) or anywhere else that"checks", like GuitarCenter,NO, if they ask to see my property. If you suspect I stole something, call a cop. I'll happily sit there and wait for him.

When you find out I am NOT a criminal, you owe me a HUGE apology, or I'm gonna raise a stink and a half. I am innocent until PROVEN guilty, and I refuse to be treated as if I MIGHT be guilty of something just becasue I am leaving a store. I have yet to be asked not to return to walmart/etc. with my $$, nor have I been given any reason to not return when I said no, which I would do if they give me any crap about not letting them see it.. (in fact most door persons just look at me kind of confused and then go about their business)

We have to stop being sheep, or we'll continue to get shorn.

Erus

 

[FogRider]

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N00blet45 wrote:

Wynder wrote:

N00blet45 wrote:

Just because I have the right to do something doesn't mean it is prudent to do it.

Like carrying a gun?

That argument is the mainstay of LEO's and anti's the country over... If you don't want your rights, don't assert them. But then, don't begrudge those that do.

But it's up to you to decide. The gun grabbers can argue all they want that you don'tNEED to carry but it's up to you to decide if you WANT to carry. Your rights do not need to be justified to be exercised, hence the word right and not privilege.

I may want to carry a gun into a post office, and according to the constitution it is my right but I also don't want to go to jail. I weigh thereward against the riskand I determine that I'll just go to UPS instead (they have better prices usually anyways).

Similarly it may be my right to resist an unlawful arrest but when the officer has his weapon pointed at my head I may decide that my life is not worth resisting an arrest that I could fight in court.

As the saying goes, "Discretion is the better part of valor."

If you don't want to exercise certain rights, that's fine. But where do you draw the line? If you don't exercise your rights for fear that they may be taken away, you may as well not have them in the first place.
Having said that, I do the same thing. I concealed in Best Buy yesterday due to the large crowds and the police monitoring the front doors. I was in a hurry, and didn't have the time or patience to deal with a possible incident.

 

[soloban]

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Montanya wrote:

Only once has a bag checker at a Best Buy INSISTED ON seeing my recipt. I had about 250$ worth if items in my bag that I purchased. I informed him it was my property at this point since I had paid for it and did not have to let him see it. He said they would assume I stole it if I didn't sooo...I tell him he can follow me over to customer service then while I empty all the items out of my bag. When I do he matches it to the recipt and says everything checks out. I then look at the person at the service desk and inform him I wish to return all these items because the guy at the door treated me like a shoplifter. The manager tried to apologize and turn the "corporate policy" thing. Like I told them, if you SAW me take something I can see you wanting to search my bags but to WATCH me walk the 3 feet from the register to the door and insist on searching my bag....screw you.

Thats awesome!! Yet another reason I don't shop at Best Buy. Not to mention their propensity to run bait-n-switch scams, fake instore website, charging more for returned goods, etc....

If you want a good laugh check out this prank that got pulled on a Best Buy in NYC.

http://www.improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/

Pay attention to the guy at the end interacting with NYPD. He gets it perfect.

 

[Citizen]

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FogRider wrote:

SNIP If you don't want to exercise certain rights, that's fine. But where do you draw the line? If you don't exercise your rights for fear that they may be taken away, you may as well not have them in the first place.
Having said that, I do the same thing. I concealed in Best Buy yesterday due to the large crowds and the police monitoring the front doors. I was in a hurry, and didn't have the time or patience to deal with a possible incident.

(emphasis mine)

Remember this line the next time the CC-only crowd comes whinin' and accussin'.

 

[FightingGlock19]

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Montanya wrote:

Only once has a bag checker at a Best Buy INSISTED ON seeing my recipt. I had about 250$ worth if items in my bag that I purchased. I informed him it was my property at this point since I had paid for it and did not have to let him see it. He said they would assume I stole it if I didn't sooo...I tell him he can follow me over to customer service then while I empty all the items out of my bag. When I do he matches it to the recipt and says everything checks out. I then look at the person at the service desk and inform him I wish to return all these items because the guy at the door treated me like a shoplifter. The manager tried to apologize and turn the "corporate policy" thing. Like I told them, if you SAW me take something I can see you wanting to search my bags but to WATCH me walk the 3 feet from the register to the door and insist on searching my bag....screw you.

HAHAHA!! I bet they were pissed!

 

[imperialism2024]

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FightingGlock19 wrote:

Montanya wrote:

Only once has a bag checker at a Best Buy INSISTED ON seeing my recipt. I had about 250$ worth if items in my bag that I purchased. I informed him it was my property at this point since I had paid for it and did not have to let him see it. He said they would assume I stole it if I didn't sooo...I tell him he can follow me over to customer service then while I empty all the items out of my bag. When I do he matches it to the recipt and says everything checks out. I then look at the person at the service desk and inform him I wish to return all these items because the guy at the door treated me like a shoplifter. The manager tried to apologize and turn the "corporate policy" thing. Like I told them, if you SAW me take something I can see you wanting to search my bags but to WATCH me walk the 3 feet from the register to the door and insist on searching my bag....screw you.

HAHAHA!! I bet they were pissed!

Nah, most products at electronics stores are low-margin. Service contracts and installation services are where the profit is at. I remember from back when I worked at Circuit City that our store generally lost money whenever we sold a computer, computer hardware, or pretty much any sale item.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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soloban wrote:

If you want a good laugh check out this prank that got pulled on a Best Buy in NYC.

http://www.improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/

Pay attention to the guy at the end interacting with NYPD. He gets it perfect.

Thanks for the great story link! These folks understand trespass law better than many here on OCDO.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

 

[soloban]

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Go to their website and watch the one where they impersonate U2 at throw a roof top concert in NYC. Cops get called again and they are let off with a "causing a public disturbance"

 

[FightingGlock19]

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soloban wrote:

Go to their website and watch the one where they impersonate U2 at throw a roof top concert in NYC. Cops get called again and they are let off with a "causing a public disturbance"

haha ...damn it!

 

[timf343]

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[PT111]

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timf343 wrote:

Also, agree or not, sometimes I'm a sonofabitch when it comes to certain things I disagree with on principle. For example, on a recent trip to Seattle, I needed to enter a store for a quick purchase (one item at the counter), couldn't find free or metered parking, so parked in a "pay for parking" lot where you leave your keys, pay $10 for the first 4 hrs, you know the drill. Even when explaining I'll only be 5 minutes, the clerk insists I pay the full $10 (more than the item I'm purchasing) and leave my keys. So, being the SOB I am, I just left the car (out of the way of other customers parking or exiting by the way) and took my keys. He explained he's calling the police to which I reply "tow it" and was of course back before police or tow showed up.

What would you have done if when you got back he had placed several cars around yours where you could not get out?

 

[Decoligny]

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timf343 wrote:

soloban wrote:

When I worked at Target the cuffs only came out if there was a threat of violence or enough of a theft that it would constitute a felony and we would be turning them over to the local LEOs to press charges. 9 out 10 folks were let go when we go back the merch. and filed a tresspass order against them.

I know I'm replying to a week-old post, but thought I'd add a thought. Here in Las Vegas, the strip hotels have a policy regarding handcuffs as well. If you are detained by casino security and they handcuff you, they are not permitted to remove the handcuffs. Only the police may do so. So if you are handcuffed, it's for a problem serious enough to warrant the detainment, and LEO does respond (they respond mighty quick as you might imagine, being on the world-famous, fabulous, Las Vegas Strip -- I just made a nickel advertising for the visitors authority...nah not really).

I was reading this thread and also walk right past the receipt checkers. Especially during the holiday season when many stores were so busy, the lines to exit sometimes took 2-3 minutes -- entirely unacceptable to anyone. Unless I had a full cart and couldn't easily get around the line, I'd just walk out the door. Most times other customers would say "hey there's a line!", which I of course ignored, and the polite "no thank you" to the folks at the door was enough not to warrant any follow up conversation from them. Interestingly, I've seen a few folks take note and just follow me quickly out the door.

Agree or not, I won't consent to being detained by anyone. Including LEO. Naturally, I'll concede and not try to escape from LEO custody while being detained (against my consent), but no one but them has the authority to detain me. If they do, kidnappers would have a defensible argument that their victim was being "detained" for whatever. He-said, she-said.

Also, agree or not, sometimes I'm a sonofabitch when it comes to certain things I disagree with on principle. For example, on a recent trip to Seattle, I needed to enter a store for a quick purchase (one item at the counter), couldn't find free or metered parking, so parked in a "pay for parking" lot where you leave your keys, pay $10 for the first 4 hrs, you know the drill. Even when explaining I'll only be 5 minutes, the clerk insists I pay the full $10 (more than the item I'm purchasing) and leave my keys. So, being the SOB I am, I just left the car (out of the way of other customers parking or exiting by the way) and took my keys. He explained he's calling the police to which I reply "tow it" and was of course back before police or tow showed up.

Now, I know alot of you will disagree with that. It was private property after all. But the point I'm trying to make is, police have alot to do, and chances are very high that I'll be back to my car and halfway home before the police dispatcher even requests a response to a low-priority incident such as "suspected" shoplifting.

Tim

So, what you are really saying is thatpersonal convenience gives you the "RIGHT" tosteal $10.00 from an honest businessman on his own property with a flippant "go ahead and tow it" remark?

You sir are nothing more than a petty thief.

What a tool.

I for one would have damn well seen to it that the only place your car went was to impound. And the police don't even have to get involved. If the property is posted with "Violaters will be towed at the owner's expense" signs, then your friendly car parking guy can call any tow company even his brother-in-law's towing company and have them take your car and hold it hostage for whatever thier going rate is.

Not to mention the sign "Not responsible for damage/theft" signs.

"Sorry Sir, I was at the other end of the lot when someone walked by and keyed your car and slached your tires." Snicker. "And since you weren't a paying customer, I am not obligated to watch out for your car."

 

[timf343]

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[Decoligny]

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Simple Debate:

$10.00 is PETTY cash.

Using thatparking lot without paying the going rate deprived theowner of$10.00 income.

That is legally Petty Larceny.

i.e. By definition, You are a Petty Thief.

 

[boohickey11]

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Let's not hijack my thread here guys. Although, If I OC instead of CC I doubt anyone would attempt to "detain" me.

 

[timf343]

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