State of Emergency

[WNCTarheel]

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So, if my area is in a state of emergency due to the snow / ice, would you advise doing OC, knowing that it's technically against the law?

 

[joeface]

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No.

 

[buzzsaw]

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Technically = really (against the law)

 

[Adam H]

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Well, I'd say it depends on your area. Judging by your name, I'll assume that you're in Western NC and you've most likely still got a large amount of snow and ice. If you're area has thawed out like mine has, then the State of Emergency may be over.

The executive order states "Section 7. This Executive Order is effective immediately and shall remain in effect for thirty (30) days or the duration of the emergency, whichever is less."

The order doesn't state that it must be repealed in writing. It just says that if the emergency is over, then State of Emergency is over. I suppose that you could argue that since the conditions that prompted the order are over, the emergency is over.

Then again, I am not a lawyer or a legal expert and this is just my two cents. Since I don't have my CCW, I'll take the chance that the order is still in effect and if arrested, I'll be a test case. I really think that a good lawyer could get that law ruled unconstitutional.

 

[Dreamer]

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This is another one of those silly laws that NC needs to repeal.

I mean, if it were a real SHTF type emergency situation (like a hurricane had hit and there was looting, etc) an I needed to go out and get supplies, you'd better be damn sure I'd want, at the VERY LEAST, a pistol on my hip, if not a 12-ga pump on my shoulder...

This is, as yoou are well aware, another once of those racist laws put in place to keep "people of color" from arming them self to defend their communities during times of intense persecution...

If for no other reason, this law should be repealed because it is a disgusting remnant from Jim Crow, and is an affront to the good conscience of any Constitution-believing American...

 

[Dreamer]

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If I remember correctly, when the Governor declares a "state of emergency", he/she has to include in that declaration a description of the geographic area under which the emergency falls. It would be a very rare thing indeed to declare the entire state in a "state of emergency". Usually it is a specific area, or county, or group of counties...

So if they're getting a foot of snow in Ashville, and they declare a state of emergency out there, the folks in Fayetteville or in Kitty Hawk would still be OK to carry.

But you need to read the specific wording of the particular declaration, because EVERY time a state of emergency is declared, it's different, and specific to the situation...

 

[chiefjason]

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The state of emergency during the snow storm before this one only applied to truck drivers hauling heating fuel and gasoline IIRC. She lifted the hours of service rules for in state truck drivers. So sometimes they are so specific that they are in effect irrelevant to the carry law.

Something tells me that how this works on paper is a far cry from how it works in real life. Just my .02

 

[buzzsaw]

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Chief you nailed that one on the first try. The commentary over on Carolinashooters when the I-40 rock slide precipitated a declaration of emergency (which was not limited to the counties affected) indicated that the AG's office had responded that it "was up to local authorities" which is IMHO a precursor to disaster. This POS law needs to be rescinded.

 

[Myrighttocarry]

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buzzsaw wrote:

Chief you nailed that one on the first try. The commentary over on Carolinashooters when the I-40 rock slide precipitated a declaration of emergency (which was not limited to the counties affected) indicated that the AG's office had responded that it "was up to local authorities" which is IMHO a precursor to disaster. This POS law needs to be rescinded.

Are you serious? That's scary. Our "right" being decided by the whims of local authorities...

 

[sovereigngrace]

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The people who make these laws must be very uninformed,
This is a bad law just like the no guns in school law, it's not going to stop the bad guys from bringing guns, and all the good guys are virtually helpless.

Although it is a bad law it is a law none the less and should be followed until we can get rid of it.

You would be surprised how many of our rights go right out the door during a "state of emergency" it's scary.

 

[Adam H]

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FYI, this State of Emergency is for the entire state.


As for our rights going out the door, it's scary. Our 4th Amendment rights are gone right now. Don't beleive me?

§ 14‑288.11. Warrants to inspect vehicles in riot areas or approaching municipalities during emergencies.
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 4 of Chapter 15, any law‑enforcement officer may, under the conditions specified in this section, obtain a warrant authorizing inspection of vehicles under the conditions and for the purpose specified in subsection (b).
(b) The inspection shall be for the purpose of discovering any dangerous weapon or substance likely to be used by one who is or may become unlawfully involved in a riot. The warrant may be sought to inspect:
(1) All vehicles entering or approaching a municipality in which a state of emergency exists; or
(2) All vehicles which might reasonably be regarded as being within or approaching the immediate vicinity of an existing riot.
(c) The warrant may be issued by any judge or justice of the General Court of Justice.
(d) The issuing official shall issue the warrant only when he has determined that the one seeking the warrant has been specifically authorized to do so by the head of the law‑enforcement agency of which the affiant is a member, and:
(1) If the warrant is being sought for the inspection of vehicles entering or approaching a municipality, that a state of emergency exists within the municipality; or
(2) If the warrant being sought is for the inspection of vehicles within or approaching the immediate vicinity of a riot, that a riot is occurring within that area.
Facts indicating the basis of these determinations must be stated in an affidavit and signed by the affiant under oath or affirmation.
(e) The warrant must be signed by the issuing official and must bear the hour and date of its issuance.
(f) The warrant must indicate whether it is for the inspection of vehicles entering or approaching a municipality or whether it is for the inspection of vehicles within or approaching the immediate vicinity of a riot. In either case, it must also specify with reasonable precision the area within which it may be exercised.
(g) The warrant shall become invalid 24 hours following its issuance and must bear a notation to that effect.
(h) Warrants authorized under this section shall not be regarded as search warrants for the purposes of application of Article 4 of Chapter 15.
(i) Nothing in this section is intended to prevent warrantless frisks, searches, and inspections to the extent that they may be constitutional and consistent with common law and governing statutes. (1969, c. 869, s. 1.)


That looks like to state has authorized General Warrants and allows them to be issued without probable cause. Tell me that ain't scary.

 

[chiefjason]

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Adam I would say that part, as weird as it is, is irrelevant right now. It seems to apply to riots or city emergencies. I think you would be out of your mind to stretch it to apply here as a LEO. In the case of a riot, I think I'll go away from the town anyway. :lol:

The local authorities thing is not all bad. I bet my local authorities could care less right now. But I bet there are some that would push it, Durham, Cary, Fayettville, etc. If you know the general feeling of the LEO's in your area you probably have an idea of how it may be enforced.

 

[Adam H]

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I'm not saying that any LEO would do it in this case. I'm just saying that the law authorizes it anytime there is a declared state of emercgency.

 

[chiefjason]

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Seems to be limited to a riot or an emergency in a specific town instead of a state of emergency in the entire state. It just feels like that is a pretty limited scope, town specific instead of statewide. I could be wrong though.

Anyone know if this law has ever been used against someone carrying?

 

[buzzsaw]

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Not unless you count the stuff that went on in New Orleans during Katrina without the benefit of legal backing. IIRC Greensboro did a little of this when the Klan shot up that Commie demonstration back in the Seventies but for the most part got away with it if you don't count the court finding that the police were in cahoots with the klan.

 

[Dreamer]

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chiefjason wrote:

Anyone know if this law has ever been used against someone carrying?

I think that most of the times this law was actually used to arrest someone or confiscate their guns was in the late 1800's and early 1900's with regards to blacks and Lumbee's, when they used firearms to protect themselves against mobs of KKK members who were threatening them...

I'll have to do some research to see if this law has been used against citizens who were otherwise acting lawfully during times of declared emergencies. I don't know if it's ever been used against law-abiding citizens during the emergencies declared after recent hurricanes. This might take some digging...

 

[buzzsaw]

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Well according to Drudge report the abuse of law has started. A link to wxii12 out of Charlotte (which I can't figure out how to link) quotes the police chief of King NC with using the state of emergency to initiate a curfew and restrict alcohol sales as well as purchase/sale or carry of firearms. What any of that has to do with a large snow fall is unfortunately beyond my feeble capabilities of comprehension.

 

[chiefjason]

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I don't think that would fly around here. But like I said, you have to know what the local LEO's are like. It would bankrupt the grocery stores too. Half their sales during snow storms are beer! :dude: I still completely support changing this.

 

[American Patriot]

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Here is the link to the King, NC ban. http://www.wxii12.com/news/22487153/detail.html

 

[Myrighttocarry]

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I wonder what our founding fathers would have thought about a law like this. This has to change. One man should not hold our rights in the palm of his hands.

And the fact that this, and many other of NC's firearm lawsare almost certainly based on racist efforts isn't helping the cause either.

I'm originally from New Orleans and had family and friends that were located there during Katrina, the outright choas that was going on was enough to let me know I don't want to lose my rights in a time of emergency. Especially if they decide to have a two week period were no prosecutions can happen, which gave criminals free reign to do as they pleased.