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State Representative Goforth to request AG's opinion on constitutionality of gun laws.

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
On Friday, February 15, State Representative Robert Goforth will be holding a press conference in the Rotunda of the Capitol building in Frankfort. At this press conference, Rep. Goforth will read a request for an opinion that he intends to hand carry down the hall to the Office of Attorney General after the conference. Rep. Goforth has sponsored House Bill 30 in this years session of the Ky. General Assembly. That bill can be seen here:

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/19rs/hb30.html

Anyone that wants to read the entire bill can go the 3rd line on that link titled "Bill Documents" and click on "Introduced". That will bring up the actual language of the bill. Be advised it is 33 pages.

The request for opinion will ask the Attorney General to explain what authority the state has, in light of the wording of the Ky. state constitution and previous AG's opinions, to restrict the carrying of firearms by law-abiding citizens, including on school property for CCDW licensees, in any location other than detention facilities and federal property.

The Attorney General, Andy Beshear, has filed to run for Governor of the state in the next election. I will be interested to hear General Beshear's explanation of how some of our state laws conform to the state constitution. All Ky. gun owners that are interested in protecting our rights and any Ky. citizen interested in returning to a constitutionally functioning government should be in attendance to stand with Rep. Goforth.

Here is a draft of what Representative Goforth's request for opinion will look like:


Kentucky Attorney General
Opinions
700 Capitol Avenue, Suite 118
Frankfort, KY 40601

15 February 2019

Given:

The tortured reasoning of OAG 96-40 has not improved with time; the increasing recognition some civil rights aren’t more equal than other rights based upon mere superstitions or prejudices; and the following facts (as alluded to but not affirmed in OAG 18-03) which demand reconciliation with plain English.

Bill of Rights Section 1, Article 7 of the Kentucky State Constitution clearly mandates:

The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

The Kentucky General Assembly has no constitutional authority for banning the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens anywhere in the Commonwealth, as for example on school property contained in KRS 527.070(1):

A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when he knowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed,...

The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act (18 U.S. C. 922(q)(2)(B)), does not apply to the possession of a firearm on school property:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

In a constitutional republic, the state legislature has no authority to birth powers for another public entity which usurp the rights reserved solely to the People by the Constitution; therefore the power conferred in KRS 237.115(1) to public colleges, universities, or any postsecondary education facilities infringing upon the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens is unconstitutional:

Except as provided in KRS 527.020, nothing contained in KRS 237.110 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the right of a college, university, or any postsecondary education facility, including technical schools and community colleges, to control the possession of deadly weapons on any property owned or controlled by them...

No subordinate government entity (i.e., local governments, offices of public school superintendents, boards of education, site-based councils, university boards of regents, etc.) may supercede the state legislature’s limited authority concerning only the concealed carry of firearms; or face legal and civil repercussions per KRS 65.870. KRS 65.870(7) shares the same fatal flaw as KRS 237.115(1).

KRS 527.070(1) and KRS 237.115(1) are in clear violation of Bill of Rights Section 1, Article 1 of the Kentucky State Constitution by denying law abiding citizens:

The right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties.

Therefore, I request an Official Opinion of the Attorney General upon the following assertion:

"It would be unconstitutional to arrest or otherwise impede an individual with a valid Kentucky CCDW Permit exercising their right to publicly carry a firearm openly anywhere in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; the sole exception being federally prohibited property.”

Respectfully,

Rep. Robert Goforth

KY House Dist. 89

702 Capitol Ave

Annex Room 358B

Frankfort, KY 40601
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky
Why the mixing of ccdw with open carry?
The legislature has no authority over open carry as Goforth states. So why this "It would be unconstitutional to arrest or otherwise impede an individual with a valid Kentucky CCDW Permit exercising their right to publicly carry a firearm openly anywhere in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; the sole exception being federally prohibited"

The wording of that only suggests it would be constitutional to arrest open carriers with no permit.

No permit is needed for OC in KY and the legislature has no authority to regulate oc.

I was all for this until I read that.

There is no real reason in this state to speak of open carry and ccdw permits in the same sentence as one has nothing to do with the other.

And it needs to stay that way.
 

gutshot II

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555
Location
Central Ky.
Why the mixing of ccdw with open carry?
The legislature has no authority over open carry as Goforth states. So why this "It would be unconstitutional to arrest or otherwise impede an individual with a valid Kentucky CCDW Permit exercising their right to publicly carry a firearm openly anywhere in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; the sole exception being federally prohibited"

The wording of that only suggests it would be constitutional to arrest open carriers with no permit.

No permit is needed for OC in KY and the legislature has no authority to regulate oc.

I was all for this until I read that.

There is no real reason in this state to speak of open carry and ccdw permits in the same sentence as one has nothing to do with the other.

And it needs to stay that way.
Because without a CCDW, the carrier would be in violation of the federal Gun Free School Zone Act. He is only saying you need the CCDW in that one particular case. He wants it to be crystal clear that you would be 100% legal in that instance. I know that some of you will want to argue that federal law should not be enforceable by local officials, but Goforth wants to avoid that fight for now. He wants to make it as difficult as possible for Beshear to muddy the water. Without a CCDW you can't say, "It would be unconstitutional to arrest or otherwise impede an individual with a valid Kentucky CCDW Permit exercising their right to publicly carry a firearm openly anywhere in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; the sole exception being federally prohibited". There would be the federal exclusion of schools.
He very plainly says, "The Kentucky General Assembly has no constitutional authority for banning the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens anywhere in the Commonwealth,.." What more do you want?
 
Last edited:

Ghost1958

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Because without a CCDW, the carrier would be in violation of the federal Gun Free School Zone Act. He is only saying you need the CCDW in that one particular case. He wants it to be crystal clear that you would be 100% legal in that instance. I know that some of you will want to argue that federal law should not be enforceable by local officials, but Goforth wants to avoid that fight for now. He wants to make it as difficult as possible for Beshear to muddy the water. Without a CCDW you can't say, "It would be unconstitutional to arrest or otherwise impede an individual with a valid Kentucky CCDW Permit exercising their right to publicly carry a firearm openly anywhere in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; the sole exception being federally prohibited". There would be the federal exclusion of schools.
Just a thought as I'm trying to clear this in my own mind. But worded as it is it doesn't specify that. It seems to connect the ability to carry anywhere in the state OC with having a ccdw permit.

Police are experts at twisting laws. That statement I quoted I personally believe LE will use as an excuse to hassle OC carriers to see their permits.

Why not specify in the bill that ccdw us only needed in that one instance instead of leaving it open ended to be abused?
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
Just a thought as I'm trying to clear this in my own mind. But worded as it is it doesn't specify that. It seems to connect the ability to carry anywhere in the state OC with having a ccdw permit.

Police are experts at twisting laws. That statement I quoted I personally believe LE will use as an excuse to hassle OC carriers to see their permits.

Why not specify in the bill that ccdw us only needed in that one instance instead of leaving it open ended to be abused?
First of all, this is not a "bill" and it is not a "law" that LEO can "twist". It "connects" nothing with anything. If you have trouble understanding the differences, I doubt that I can explain this to you. It is a request for opinion of the Attorney General. I doubt may cops will be reading OAG's. It seems perfectly clear to me and, I think, will be so to any reasonably thinking person, LEO's included. It has absolutely no legal standing. If you are dissatisfied with Rep. Goforth's statement, I suggest you go to his office on the 3rd floor of the Capital Annex and express your dissatisfaction to him personally. I am sure he will welcome and value your input and any advice and counsel that you can supply. In my mind, the statement speaks for itself and requires no further explanation. The point of this was never to keep YOU happy. I knew in the beginning that the chronically dissatisfied would, once again, be so.
 

Ghost1958

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First of all, this is not a "bill" and it is not a "law" that LEO can "twist". It "connects" nothing with anything. If you have trouble understanding the differences, I doubt that I can explain this to you. It is a request for opinion of the Attorney General. I doubt may cops will be reading OAG's. It seems perfectly clear to me and, I think, will be so to any reasonably thinking person, LEO's included. It has absolutely no legal standing. If you are dissatisfied with Rep. Goforth's statement, I suggest you go to his office on the 3rd floor of the Capital Annex and express your dissatisfaction to him personally. I am sure he will welcome and value your input and any advice and counsel that you can supply. In my mind, the statement speaks for itself and requires no further explanation. The point of this was never to keep YOU happy. I knew in the beginning that the chronically dissatisfied would, once again, be so.

Thanks I may do that Monday.
I know it's not a law and that his bill has a snow balls chance of passage.

That said his asking old Andy for an opinion concerning guns IMO is not a really good idea.

And what may be clear in YOUR mind won't be clear in the mind of LE who want to hassle OC.
An opinion by the AG 9n guns that gives them an excuse, no matter how thin to hassle OC carriers some will make a point to use. Where as it stands now stopping an OC carrier LE has NO leg to stand on.

It would have been better to point out that the legislature only has constitutional authority to deny or allow concealed carry. Not regulate it, not invent a cash cow permit scheme around it.. only allow or deny.
The more I read what Goforth is wanting Andy to do the more it looks like an end run around the KY CONSTITUTION to provide the state a regulatory avenue over OC via the stupid ccdw permit using a AG opinion as the excuse.

Everyone has an opinion on these things. All due respect, Don't get so personally warped when one doesn't agree with yours .
 

Ghost1958

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it's not a bill homie
Yes homes, I know the asking for an opinion isn't a bill.
I'm not talking about his bill but his asking for an AG opinion . If he gets the opinion he wants it ain't that great. No reason to mix OC with CCDW permits.
And knowing Beshear he may well get a disastrous opinion. And like it or not AG opinions seriously affect the way gun regulations are enforced.
 

gutshot II

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This event happened pretty much as planned. I was there when Representative Goforth handed the request over to OAG employees. Everybody that bothered to show up was an old man. What a shame! I guess the gun owners of Ky. expect somebody else to protect their gun rights.
Copy of request is below.
 

Attachments

Ghost1958

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This event happened pretty much as planned. I was there when Representative Goforth handed the request over to OAG employees. Everybody that bothered to show up was an old man. What a shame! I guess the gun owners of Ky. expect somebody else to protect their gun rights.
Copy of request is below.
All due respect, did it ever occur to you that many ky gun owners think asking Andy Beashear anything concerning the RTKABA wasn't such a great great idea?

Or that a great many do not support Goforths bill because it requires a permit to OC specific places?

I don't know any gun owners not in full support of permitless carry.

On the other hand I don't know nor have spoken with anyone that wants Goforths bill to pass.
 

garyh9900

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KY
All due respect, did it ever occur to you that many ky gun owners think asking Andy Beashear anything concerning the RTKABA wasn't such a great great idea?

Or that a great many do not support Goforths bill because it requires a permit to OC specific places?

I don't know any gun owners not in full support of permitless carry.

On the other hand I don't know nor have spoken with anyone that wants Goforths bill to pass.
I actually think its a pretty good idea to ask him for his opinion. I mean what real downsides are there for doing so? But from what I can recall he hasn't addressed much on what his beliefs and policy are on gun rights or gun control. The request for an opinion will put him on the record to what he thinks, then voters will have this information this spring and fall when we go to the polls. But even better than that is the position its going to put him in. I'm sure his campaign is going to be bankrolled by leftist organizations from outside of Kentucky. If he goes with a strong gun rights opinion, I think the flow of money is going to trickle, or at least greatly slow. If he goes pro-gun control then all the money in the country couldn't buy him the election in Kentucky. So I think Goforth was smart for doing what he was doing. Now that being said, I don't think he will be facing any candidate in November. I expect Bevin to win the primary.
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky
I actually think its a pretty good idea to ask him for his opinion. I mean what real downsides are there for doing so? But from what I can recall he hasn't addressed much on what his beliefs and policy are on gun rights or gun control. The request for an opinion will put him on the record to what he thinks, then voters will have this information this spring and fall when we go to the polls. But even better than that is the position its going to put him in. I'm sure his campaign is going to be bankrolled by leftist organizations from outside of Kentucky. If he goes with a strong gun rights opinion, I think the flow of money is going to trickle, or at least greatly slow. If he goes pro-gun control then all the money in the country couldn't buy him the election in Kentucky. So I think Goforth was smart for doing what he was doing. Now that being said, I don't think he will be facing any candidate in November. I expect Bevin to win the primary.
No downsides of you think KY LE won't take his opinion if it's anti gun, as gospel and treat it like its a law.

But that's not what will happen if his opinion appears gives KY LE any more authority over carry than the little they have now.

Best to have let Andy fade away with his opinions kept to himself.

Playing politics with the RTKABA is not something any of these politicians gave authority to do.

Goforths proposed bill even goes further as if he doesn't know he has NO authority to regulate OC, even in limited areas, at all.
 
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