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Thank you John Lott

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
Mr. Lott,

Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to travel to Ky. to assist the gun owners of the Commonwealth in regaining a small amount of liberty taken from us by the government in requiring a person to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Your appearance at the House Judiciary Committee meeting on Wednesday was not only informative, it was also a major factor in swaying the opinions of Committee members and resulted in a favorable recommendation to the full House of Representatives for SB 150.
The gun owners of Ky owe you a great debt and I, personally enjoyed the brief conversation that I shared with you after the meeting.

gutshot II
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I hoped. I did not expect.

He is a valuable resource to the pro-2A community, but was dismissed out of hand by a few here. Ignorantly so, IMO.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,627
Location
here nc
It was pleasant to see you’al defend his conceal carry of a register weapon position.

I was quite surprised to see you’al graciously acknowledge and accept his exclaimed ‘disappointment’ from his very first post on this forum: quote

Dear Doug: I am not sure why you posted the link to the piece so that it bypasses the download count.

Dear Hammer6: I suspect that you haven't actually read the research that I wrote up, and before you comment you might want to read it.

[to ghost] One benefit of having permits is that it allows you to track how law-abiding general citizens are in carrying concealed handguns.

[to ghost] I don't understand why you refuse to discuss how freedom and safety go together on this issue.

Dear Solos: If you read my research...

[to citizen john] In More Guns, Less Crime, The War on Guns, The Bias Against Guns, and in my many op-eds and other writings, I have continually pointed out how extremely law-abiding concealed handgun permit holders are.

[to forum in general] Unfortunately, few on this platform appears to be obviously familiar with the safety arguments involving guns. If you want to include safety arguments in your discussion, you might possibly find the emails that we send out of some use.

You gleefully bemoan Dr Lott not returning after only posting 9 posts in the span of sun-mon timeframe where in 7 of those posts he lambasts this OC membership of not reading his olde 20 year olde tomes, or research, or not understanding said research, ending with commentary of “...‘few’ are familiar with ‘safety arguments’ ...” [not clarified nor defined by Dr Lott by the way]

Remember gutshot, your state just passed permitless conceal...this premise goes smack dab against Dr Lott’s long time research premise...law-biding citizen conceal carry of registered weapons...

Let’s get those citizen’s concealed carry weaons registered with our govermental overseers shall we?

A final note...who are Dr Lott’s ‘extremely law-abiding citizens’ he references to citizenjohn ~ you gutshot? Eye95? Ghost?

Yea...i’ll get right on registering my ‘weapons’ all the while OC’g in my daily activities out and about in my community and travels throughout this great nation!
 
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Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
512
Dr. Lott and I correspond quite civilly and comfortably, and have - occasionally - for about twenty years.

Grass Roots Gun Rights SC bought 100 copies of MGLC first edition PB to give to SC legislators. I have the first edition of all of his guns related books and have read each one closely. My MGLCs are heavily annotated.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
No. I didn't. I do know he addressed the house in KY. Ive no idea what he said though I'd guess he was on the pro gun side in that debate. It would have been self destructive to have done otherwise.

I do know he himself stated the "ideal" would be shall issue, very cheap permits required so research could be done.

That statement by itself leaves Dr Lott and I with no common ground.

This idea there is some magical middle ground between the RTKABA, and infringement of same is ludicrous.

Either it's a right protected by the 2A subject to NO infringements, or it is simply gov permission to be armed.

It's impossible for it to be both, and impossible to support the RTKABA, yet support any infringement thereof.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,347
Location
White Oak Plantation
Dr. Lott bears no burden to explain himself here. But it would be appreciated if he would come back here and discuss his views on OC vs. CC. Perhaps he focuses on CC because CC is more palatable to the state than OC. We have the right to bear arms, the manner is the sticking point.

Edit to add.

Perhaps this radio interview from March 2016 will do in the event Dr. Lott chooses to not clarify his position on OC on this OC forum.


The OC specific portion of the interview begins around the 2:00 minute mark.

Then this:
Still, there is a more basic problem with open carry – it isn’t as effective in protecting people.

Criminals and terrorists can strike anywhere and at any time, that gives them a huge strategic advantage. When an attacker sees someone openly carrying a gun, they can either attack that person or wait for a more opportune moment. Alternatively, they can select another target.

Concealed carry makes attacks riskier. A killer can’t attack an auditorium in Texas without facing near-certain resistance. And, of course, an attacker has no idea who might be packing heat.

Then towards then end of the opinion piece:
If safety is the goal, let’s eliminate gun-free zones or lower permit fees. Open carry may make a political statement, but is that really the top priority?
Dr. Lott is a valuable ally in the quest to make permit free CC a reality in all of the several states and territories. He is not a friend of OC...ers.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,627
Location
here nc
Dr. Lott and I correspond quite civilly and comfortably, and have - occasionally - for about twenty years.

Grass Roots Gun Rights SC bought 100 copies of MGLC first edition PB to give to SC legislators. I have the first edition of all of his guns related books and have read each one closely. My MGLCs are heavily annotated.
Of course nightmare, you are referring to your usually mentioned & infamous grassroots of SC advocacy group who’s current web page is still blaring out the news from 2011 or almost eight [8] years ago? http://www.scfirearms.org/

BTW doug, how has their advocacy helped the SC citizens again ?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,627
Location
here nc
OC for ME, how on earth can an individual who for the last 20+ years has sole advocated for law-abiding citizen’s having conceal permits for their registered weapons be an ally for permitless CC...

oh notice still no citizen weapon registration has been implemented in those states currently allowing their citizens to CC w/o a permit!
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,627
Location
here nc
Give a chance...sorry Dr Lott failed public speaking 101’s main goal...

KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE!
 

Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
512
Of course nightmare, you are referring to your usually mentioned & infamous grassroots of SC advocacy group who’s current web page is still blaring out the news from 2011 or almost eight [8] years ago? http://www.scfirearms.org/

BTW doug, how has their advocacy helped the SC citizens again ?
GRGRSC is enjoined, legally stifled by NRA affiliate GOSC, as you may discover with more than a drive by. Before the South Carolina 1996 Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act there was no legal regular gun carry of any sort. There is still no legal regular open carry. There will be no regular legal gun carry while the P4P hegemony persists in SC. Guns may be legally openly carried in SC only for particular purposes / places.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,627
Location
here nc
GRGRSC is enjoined, legally stifled by NRA affiliate GOSC, as you may discover with more than a drive by. Before the South Carolina 1996 Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act there was no legal regular gun carry of any sort. There is still no legal regular open carry. There will be no regular legal gun carry while the P4P hegemony persists in SC. Guns may be legally openly carried in SC only for particular purposes / places.
Ah same song and dance then!

So my ‘driveby’ of your referenced infamous grassroots gunowners of SC in your previous post in this thread showing their site died in 2011 and therefore hasn’t done a thing to assist SC citizens in their firearm advocacy advancement whatsoever is correct!

Also since Dr Lott’s book came out in 1998 and given to SC Legislators by the grassroots enity apparently didn’t help a bloody thing since, as you stated before 1996 SC citizens couldn’t carry nor can they now, 23 years later...guess the only benefactor was Dr Lott’s book sales, eh?
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
Dr. Lott bears no burden to explain himself here. But it would be appreciated if he would come back here and discuss his views on OC vs. CC. Perhaps he focuses on CC because CC is more palatable to the state than OC. We have the right to bear arms, the manner is the sticking point.

Edit to add.

Perhaps this radio interview from March 2016 will do in the event Dr. Lott chooses to not clarify his position on OC on this OC forum.


The OC specific portion of the interview begins around the 2:00 minute mark.

Then this:
Then towards then end of the opinion piece: Dr. Lott is a valuable ally in the quest to make permit free CC a reality in all of the several states and territories. He is not a friend of OC...ers.
Which also leaves no common ground with him.

You'll note as should he the great majority of states had OC since state hood or much earlier than cc.

So much for cc being more palatable.

The RTKABA and the 2a that protects it allows no cc permits banning of OC or cc nor permitting of either. The 2a does not say a peep about permits being OK if they are cheap.

Anyone promoting permits required, even for free , is no friend to the RTKABS
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,347
Location
White Oak Plantation
No, I for one did not.

This forum excels at making adversaries out of potential allies, focusing on differences to drive division instead of building on common ground to further the purpose of the forum.
How is Dr. Lott furthering the the purpose of OCDO? See forum rule 14, for the purpose of OCDO.

Dr. Lott is welcome here. He has chosen not to engage the OC community because he is not a friend of OC.
 
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