expvideo
Regular Member
imported post
This Saturday (07/21/2007), my fiancé Taylor and I went to Tacoma to participate in a barbeque for the Pacific Northwest Open Carry group. I was wearing blue jeans and a yellow polo shirt tucked in, and a handgun in a retention holster on my belt. I was not making any attempt to conceal this handgun, as Washington is a legal open carry state. We ate and enjoyed ourselves and at about 2:00pm we decided to leave.
On our way back to Lynnwood, we decided to stop at the Westfield Shoppingtown Southcenter mall, to do some shopping. I was still wearing the same outfit, and still open carrying, in violation of no laws. We were courteous and friendly to everyone we spoke with at the mall, and at no time did I touch or gesture toward my handgun. Unsatisfied with the mall selection, after over an hour of searching for a product, we decided to leave the same way we came, through Sears and across the drive to their parking garage. As we were walking into the parking garage, two Tukwila Police Department officers (badge numbers 160 and 168) yelled at me “Hey, stop. Put your hands behind your head”. I complied and asked what the problem was. I remained polite and professional throughout our encounter and never raised my voice. 168 said “You’re carrying a visible gun with no badge”. I told him that it was legal and within my rights. He said I had to conceal it and that I had no right to open carry.
He asked for my concealed weapon permit. I asked him if I was being detained. He said no. I asked “Am I free to leave?” He got angry and said “NO!” I said “then am I being detained?” He said yes, I was being detained for investigation of a concealed weapons permit.
I started to fish my permit out of my wallet, and he could plainly see it. Second thinking the actions that were being taken against me and the unconstitutionality of their actions, I returned the permit to my wallet without giving it to them and told them that I do not have to show them a permit. I was firm but polite. I let them know that I only had to show them a permit if I was concealing a gun. 160 told me that I was wrong and I had to have a permit to carry no matter what. I politely refused to show them my permit and 168 grabbed my arm, forcefully twisting it behind my back. Fearing for my safety, I said “Can I just give you my id?” 168 let go of my arm and let me get my Drivers License. They continued running my license and at this time 171 arrived. I asked if I was being detained, and he said that I was.
At this point a mall security guard had joined in on the argument. He was reading off of the back of his permit and read “Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol.” This is the only point of the conversation that I said anything disrespectful. I said, “finish the sentence, jackass.” This was rude of me, and the officers responded as such yelling in my face, 171 coming within a centimeter of touching noses with me. I feared again for my safety. The reason I told the security guard to finish the sentence was that the whole sentence says “Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license[/b] in his or her possession at all times that he or she is required by law...” the sentence did not say that I had to conceal the pistol, as the guard had stated.
Another security guard told me that it was illegal to carry in the mall. I told him that it may be against his mall policy, but it is not illegal. He said that the ruled was posted at all entrances to the mall. I told him that we entered through Sears, and didn’t see a sign. He confirmed that there was no sign at that entrance.
I asked 171 if I was free to go. He said no, so I asked why. He said that I was being detained for a Tukwila law that says I can’t open carry. I told him that there was state preemption and Tukwila gun laws are not enforceable. He told me that city law supersedes state law, and the state law was invalid. I gave him RCW 9.41.290 and told him that he was mistaken. He told me that he didn’t need to look that up because it didn’t matter. I insisted that if it didn’t matter, he should just look it up. He said “Look, I don’t give a **** about that”. He then told me that normal people don’t carry guns and I was causing alarm. I said that just having a gun does not cause alarm and he told me I was wrong. He said that they had arrested someone a few months ago for the same thing and that he was able to be prosecuted. I said that I hadn’t violated any laws. And he insisted that I had. He asked why I was carrying in the mall anyway. I replied “to protect myself”. He said, “are you going to shoot someone in the mall?” I said, no I’m not going to shoot anybody, did I act like I was going to shoot somebody?” He replied “No, it’s just…” At that point I was no longer under suspicion of causing alarm, as I had not acted in a way that would make someone as rational as officer 171 think that I was a threat, therefore not causing warranted alarm.
The police forced me to stay there as the mall security wrote up a trespass notice and took my picture. I am now trespassed from the Westfield mall. I asked throughout this process if I was free to go or if I was being detained. 171 said that I was being detained for trespass. I told him that I wasn’t trespassing, and he agreed, but said I had to wait to get my papers. Finally when the security guard finished the papers and forced me to sign them, 160 told me that I was free to go. I asked for their badge numbers.
It is important to note that throughout this entire ordeal, from the very beginning, I asked to speak with a superior officer. They said that was fine, but never sent for one.
I was frightened, unlawfully detained, publicly humiliated and my rights were violated.
After this ordeal, I went to the Tukwila Police Department and spoke with an Officer E Lund, badge number 126. He was the ranking officer on the shift. He said that he supported his officers’ actions, and agreed that I had violated the law. He refused to look at the training bulletins for local police departments (Kent and Federal Way), and said that those weren’t laws and meant nothing. He said that RCW 9.41.290 did not restrict the power of the city’s laws. He said that I had violated the law and that his officers were not doing anything wrong. He said that he didn’t have time to argue about laws with me, and that if I wanted to file a complaint he’d get me the paperwork himself. Naturally, I agreed that this was a good idea. I filed a complaint with my statement and Taylor’s witness statement and told him that I was planning to open a lawsuit against the police department.
It is important to understand that aside from my snide remark to the security guard, I kept a polite and calm composure. I never raised my voice to the officers, and was never aggressive with my arguments. The officers on the other hand caused a very public scene and literally yelled in my face and physically restrained my arm. I feared for my safety.
It is also important that I point out that 160 was very polite and calm throughout this procedure. While he was mistaken about the laws, he was never forceful and was always patient. He tried to calm the other officers. I hold no hard feelings about this event toward officer 160. Officers 168 and 171 were physically and verbally abusive to me. 171 told me he could arrest me several times. Every time he said it, I responded with “go ahead and arrest me, I will sue your department.” I was in great fear for my safety from 171 and 168 throughout this whole ordeal.
I will be filing a lawsuit against the Tukwila Police for unlawful imprisonment/false arrest, defamation of character, harassment, assault (against officer 168) and anything else I can think of that is misconduct related.
This Saturday (07/21/2007), my fiancé Taylor and I went to Tacoma to participate in a barbeque for the Pacific Northwest Open Carry group. I was wearing blue jeans and a yellow polo shirt tucked in, and a handgun in a retention holster on my belt. I was not making any attempt to conceal this handgun, as Washington is a legal open carry state. We ate and enjoyed ourselves and at about 2:00pm we decided to leave.
On our way back to Lynnwood, we decided to stop at the Westfield Shoppingtown Southcenter mall, to do some shopping. I was still wearing the same outfit, and still open carrying, in violation of no laws. We were courteous and friendly to everyone we spoke with at the mall, and at no time did I touch or gesture toward my handgun. Unsatisfied with the mall selection, after over an hour of searching for a product, we decided to leave the same way we came, through Sears and across the drive to their parking garage. As we were walking into the parking garage, two Tukwila Police Department officers (badge numbers 160 and 168) yelled at me “Hey, stop. Put your hands behind your head”. I complied and asked what the problem was. I remained polite and professional throughout our encounter and never raised my voice. 168 said “You’re carrying a visible gun with no badge”. I told him that it was legal and within my rights. He said I had to conceal it and that I had no right to open carry.
He asked for my concealed weapon permit. I asked him if I was being detained. He said no. I asked “Am I free to leave?” He got angry and said “NO!” I said “then am I being detained?” He said yes, I was being detained for investigation of a concealed weapons permit.
I started to fish my permit out of my wallet, and he could plainly see it. Second thinking the actions that were being taken against me and the unconstitutionality of their actions, I returned the permit to my wallet without giving it to them and told them that I do not have to show them a permit. I was firm but polite. I let them know that I only had to show them a permit if I was concealing a gun. 160 told me that I was wrong and I had to have a permit to carry no matter what. I politely refused to show them my permit and 168 grabbed my arm, forcefully twisting it behind my back. Fearing for my safety, I said “Can I just give you my id?” 168 let go of my arm and let me get my Drivers License. They continued running my license and at this time 171 arrived. I asked if I was being detained, and he said that I was.
At this point a mall security guard had joined in on the argument. He was reading off of the back of his permit and read “Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol.” This is the only point of the conversation that I said anything disrespectful. I said, “finish the sentence, jackass.” This was rude of me, and the officers responded as such yelling in my face, 171 coming within a centimeter of touching noses with me. I feared again for my safety. The reason I told the security guard to finish the sentence was that the whole sentence says “Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license[/b] in his or her possession at all times that he or she is required by law...” the sentence did not say that I had to conceal the pistol, as the guard had stated.
Another security guard told me that it was illegal to carry in the mall. I told him that it may be against his mall policy, but it is not illegal. He said that the ruled was posted at all entrances to the mall. I told him that we entered through Sears, and didn’t see a sign. He confirmed that there was no sign at that entrance.
I asked 171 if I was free to go. He said no, so I asked why. He said that I was being detained for a Tukwila law that says I can’t open carry. I told him that there was state preemption and Tukwila gun laws are not enforceable. He told me that city law supersedes state law, and the state law was invalid. I gave him RCW 9.41.290 and told him that he was mistaken. He told me that he didn’t need to look that up because it didn’t matter. I insisted that if it didn’t matter, he should just look it up. He said “Look, I don’t give a **** about that”. He then told me that normal people don’t carry guns and I was causing alarm. I said that just having a gun does not cause alarm and he told me I was wrong. He said that they had arrested someone a few months ago for the same thing and that he was able to be prosecuted. I said that I hadn’t violated any laws. And he insisted that I had. He asked why I was carrying in the mall anyway. I replied “to protect myself”. He said, “are you going to shoot someone in the mall?” I said, no I’m not going to shoot anybody, did I act like I was going to shoot somebody?” He replied “No, it’s just…” At that point I was no longer under suspicion of causing alarm, as I had not acted in a way that would make someone as rational as officer 171 think that I was a threat, therefore not causing warranted alarm.
The police forced me to stay there as the mall security wrote up a trespass notice and took my picture. I am now trespassed from the Westfield mall. I asked throughout this process if I was free to go or if I was being detained. 171 said that I was being detained for trespass. I told him that I wasn’t trespassing, and he agreed, but said I had to wait to get my papers. Finally when the security guard finished the papers and forced me to sign them, 160 told me that I was free to go. I asked for their badge numbers.
It is important to note that throughout this entire ordeal, from the very beginning, I asked to speak with a superior officer. They said that was fine, but never sent for one.
I was frightened, unlawfully detained, publicly humiliated and my rights were violated.
After this ordeal, I went to the Tukwila Police Department and spoke with an Officer E Lund, badge number 126. He was the ranking officer on the shift. He said that he supported his officers’ actions, and agreed that I had violated the law. He refused to look at the training bulletins for local police departments (Kent and Federal Way), and said that those weren’t laws and meant nothing. He said that RCW 9.41.290 did not restrict the power of the city’s laws. He said that I had violated the law and that his officers were not doing anything wrong. He said that he didn’t have time to argue about laws with me, and that if I wanted to file a complaint he’d get me the paperwork himself. Naturally, I agreed that this was a good idea. I filed a complaint with my statement and Taylor’s witness statement and told him that I was planning to open a lawsuit against the police department.
It is important to understand that aside from my snide remark to the security guard, I kept a polite and calm composure. I never raised my voice to the officers, and was never aggressive with my arguments. The officers on the other hand caused a very public scene and literally yelled in my face and physically restrained my arm. I feared for my safety.
It is also important that I point out that 160 was very polite and calm throughout this procedure. While he was mistaken about the laws, he was never forceful and was always patient. He tried to calm the other officers. I hold no hard feelings about this event toward officer 160. Officers 168 and 171 were physically and verbally abusive to me. 171 told me he could arrest me several times. Every time he said it, I responded with “go ahead and arrest me, I will sue your department.” I was in great fear for my safety from 171 and 168 throughout this whole ordeal.
I will be filing a lawsuit against the Tukwila Police for unlawful imprisonment/false arrest, defamation of character, harassment, assault (against officer 168) and anything else I can think of that is misconduct related.
