We all know he is a pig, but...

[eye95]

We all know he is a pig, capable of such icky behavior, but Joe Biden is due the same presumptions of innocence that we demanded for Kavanaugh.

"I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. ... He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head."

...

"I couldn't move, and I couldn't say anything," she wrote. "I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me. My name was called, and I was never happier to get on stage in front of an audience."

If she chose not to open her mouth publicly on the situation then, she shouldn’t now, five years later, when defending against such an accusation is near impossible.

There is a reason that there are protections in the law called “statutes of limitation”. There is an underlying moral principle here that justifies those statutes and should inform our reactions to non-criminal accusations: Don’t make accusations that have been rendered indefensible due to too much time having elapsed.

Joe Biden accused of kissing former Nevada lawmaker; 2020 candidates r

Lucy Flores, a former member of the Nevada State Assembly, said Biden approached her from behind, put his hands on her shoulders and kissed the back of her head before she spoke to supporters at a Nov. 1, 2014, campaign rally.

www.whio.com

[/quote]

 

[Ghost1958]

I remember shotgun joes leering and touchy feely actions being talked about back in 2000 . And seeing him lurking over female speakers on TV.

That sort of thing was brought up back then though I don't remember this particular gal by name.

 

[OC for ME]

WJ Clinton effect...

 

[solus]

We all know he is a pig, capable of such icky behavior, but Joe Biden is due the same presumptions of innocence that we demanded for Kavanaugh.

If she chose not to open her mouth publicly on the situation then, she shouldn’t now, five years later, when defending against such an accusation is near impossible.

There is a reason that there are protections in the law called “statutes of limitation”. There is an underlying moral principle here that justifies those statutes and should inform our reactions to non-criminal accusations: Don’t make accusations that have been rendered indefensible due to too much time having elapsed.

Snipppp

Eye95, please as mentioned before numerous times, DO NOT speak or insinuate or presume something of fact for this august member, e.g., “We all know...” on this public forum.

I am truly sorry you somehow missed WHIO’s numerous newspeek media coverage of #metoo antics which have ruined numerous lives, disrupting numerous relationships, caused religious entities to shutter over the last 5+ years.

A point of order, eye95 do you remember your numerous maligning postings about Jessie and conversations regarding slinging nonsense to affect mob/court of public opinion...welcome to #metoo antics.

Oh and your perceptions ‘statutes of limitations’ are applicable...ya if the persons want justice ~ they do not, they want the court of public opinion to lynch the individual thru loss of reputation, ad nauseam ~ oh dear the same antics you were inciting on this august OC public forum!

“Open her mouth” how elegantly said!

 

[eye95]

I remember shotgun joes leering and touchy feely actions being talked about back in 2000 . And seeing him lurking over female speakers on TV.

That sort of thing was brought up back then though I don't remember this particular gal by name.

Hence “we all know”. Anyone who did not know was not paying attention to Creepy Uncle Joe. He was downright famous for being caught on camera in various acts of handsiness*.

The problem would be a lack of complaint by this alleged victim at the time.

We all have people with whom we are close enough that their touching our shoulders or kissing the top of our head would not be a problem. If it is a problem, it is encumbent on the victim to say so at the time. If she doesn’t, it is reasonable to believe that the actions were, at the very least, not unwelcome.

I am left to assume that if the advance was unwelcome at the time, the woman felt that there was some benefit to not complaining (quite possibly being in favor with the sitting VP?). Backpedaling on such a choice would merely be a power-play and earns no sympathy from me.

“Speak now, or forever hold your peace,” has much wider application than in wedding ceremonies.
___

* I thought I had made this word up. So, just in case it was a real word, I selected the “Look Up” feature in the iPad editor. What result did it find? Joe Biden!!!

We all know.

 

[color of law]

None of us will ever know the REAL INTENTIONS for her public announcement. She is just one of many that has declared she was a recipient of Joe's touchy feely personality disorder.

 

[eye95]

None of us can ever know anything. However, the timing of the accusation is informative, much like the timing of the Kavanaugh accusations were.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Very simple, due process has NOTHING to do with how legal voter votes. Kavanaugh was not running for office, Biden may be running for POTUS, a person can vote for a person or not just on looks alone. There is no set standard for what a voter might, or might not consider.

PLEASE stop confusing public opinion with due process, or how the justice system works.

 

[WalkingWolf]

By the way, will you two please stop bickering, you know who you are.

 

[eye95]

Very simple, due process has NOTHING to do with how legal voter votes. Kavanaugh was not running for office, Biden may be running for POTUS, a person can vote for a person or not just on looks alone. There is no set standard for what a voter might, or might not consider.

PLEASE stop confusing public opinion with due process, or how the justice system works.

I said nothing about the justice system. My point is that it is a moral imperative to treat someone as innocent until proven guilty. The legal principle is a consequence of the moral principle.

I wouldn’t vote for Biden for two reasons: His sleaziness is already well-enough proven, AND he is a progressive. Either is sufficient to keep me from voting for him.

 

[eye95]

And one more time, if one wants respect, one should give respect.

Please note that I responded respectfully to the “due process” post, which was respectful in its own right, even though our takes are different.

 

[color of law]

I said nothing about the justice system. My point is that it is a moral imperative to treat someone as innocent until proven guilty. The legal principle is a consequence of the moral principle.

I wouldn’t vote for Biden for two reasons: His sleaziness is already well-enough proven, AND he is a progressive. Either is sufficient to keep me from voting for him.

Well then, all you are left with is a write-in choice.

 

[solus]

Very simple, due process has NOTHING to do with how legal voter votes. Kavanaugh was not running for office, Biden may be running for POTUS, a person can vote for a person or not just on looks alone. There is no set standard for what a voter might, or might not consider.

PLEASE stop confusing public opinion with due process, or how the justice system works.

I said nothing about the justice system. My point is that it is a moral imperative to treat someone as innocent until proven guilty. The legal principle is a consequence of the moral principle.

I wouldn’t vote for Biden for two reasons: His sleaziness is already well-enough proven, AND he is a progressive. Either is sufficient to keep me from voting for him.

And unfortunately WW, et al., tis like de ja vous, as it appears their behavioural attitude did not improve one iota after their forced hiatus.

There are statutory principles in place as a consequence based in any shape or form on morals? Oh wait the failure to pick up scat after their animals...i am sure that statute is unequivocally related to morality.

 

[eye95]

WalkingWolf, I bear you no animus, despite the attempt by a third party to cause problems. I disagree—to a small extent—with the POV you expressed, as you likely disagree—to some extent—with mine. But we posted to each other as adults, as we all should.

 

[solus]

WalkingWolf, I bear you no animus, despite the attempt by a third party to cause problems. I disagree—to a small extent—with the POV you expressed, as you likely disagree—to some extent—with mine. But we posted to each other as adults, as we all should.

Eye95, this third party you reference isn’t in any way causing you problems, real or perceived, since it isn’t me who is consistently posting disjointed, ambiguous, contradicting & incoherent but incitful statements on this public forum.

That you are in denial over the actual rational you believe is causing your problems!

Sorry you fail to see nor acknowledge this simple fact!

 

[WalkingWolf]

I give up, completely wasted my breath(text)!

 

[HP995]

1. Bickering might even be enjoyable for some people at some times, who knows. They are good people and they keep forum posts and knowledge up. However, some bickering exchanges can get tedious and summon up old "did too - did not" memories and make threads hard to read. We do need general unity, enough enemies already. We all have our pros and cons; that's life. I truly appreciate everyone here and the forum itself. I've learned useful info from just about every single person here. Stay strong and take heart, everyone!

2. So should our official greeting become a sly kiss on top of the head?

 

[OC for ME]

The sorry state of affairs is...waistng virtual ink on Biden.

 

[HP995]

Sorry OC I was distracted inhaling the aroma of your hair/scalp; what was that?

The more amazing thing is that anyone liked Biden before this. What's to like? Nothing to offer. Well, except hugs I guess.

 

[since9]

Eye95, please as mentioned before numerous times, DO NOT speak or insinuate or presume something of fact for this august member, e.g., “We all know...” on this public forum.

Please cite any and all laws which he broke.

...they want the court of public opinion to lynch the individual thru loss of reputation, ad nauseam...

Yes, largely.

Hence “we all know”. Anyone who did not know was not paying attention to Creepy Uncle Joe. He was downright famous for being caught on camera in various acts of handsiness*.

Agreed, especially with your "Creepy Uncle Joe" moniker. I and countless others use it online in many other forums all the time.

You should have trademarked it!

We all have people with whom we are close enough that their touching our shoulders or kissing the top of our head would not be a problem. If it is a problem, it is encumbent on the victim to say so at the time. If she doesn’t, it is reasonable to believe that the actions were, at the very least, not unwelcome.

Indeed. Some people are just too touchy-feely.

“Speak now, or forever hold your peace,” has much wider application than in wedding ceremonies.

Also agreed, and I think our statutes of limitations need to be adjusted to more reasonable values.

* I thought I had made this word up. So, just in case it was a real word, I selected the “Look Up” feature in the iPad editor. What result did it find? Joe Biden!!!

We all know.

We the People know. I don't know who or what keeps defending the presumably innocent hands-on bastage.