Woman In Albertsons

[gogodawgs]

I quoted the current legal language standard.

 

[DamonK]

Ah, I see. Cool

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Yep, it would be my guess that less than 1 in 100 would even notice. They are too involved in their own life to worry about someone else's.

We went to town yesterday, narry a peep. I don't look to see if people look, I just listen for comments. 5 stores and a bank...nada

Yup...

I OC'ed today while selling my car.... Walking around the car with them, taking it on a test drive, etc etc...

We go to a DOL subagent, and they're closed, so we go back to my place to fill out the paperwork.......

I go inside, print out the stuff, and we start doing paperwork.. About halfway through she says 'Oh, you have a gun! Did you have that the whole time?'....I just chuckled to myself and said 'yes ma'am', and we had a decent conversation about it. She admitted knowing nothing about them, but her husband (of course) did.

 

[Difdi]

But that is when no fire is present.

There is always the potential for fire present, or the theater would have no way to show the movie, pop the popcorn, or even turn on the lights.

Likewise, there is the potential for a mass shooting spree when you see someone armed.

But screaming about dangers that remain mere potentials, thus inciting panic and/or riot remains a crime if you do it when the danger is not actually present or immediate.

 

[Bill Starks]

We had this very discussion on this very subject back on 11/07/2011 in this thread:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...funny-thing-happened-on-the-Link-tonite/page2

I'll throw out: 9A.84.030 Disorderly conduct. Its a stretch though.

(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if the person:

(a) Uses abusive language and thereby intentionally creates a risk of assault;

(b) Intentionally disrupts any lawful assembly or meeting of persons without lawful authority;

(c) Intentionally obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic without lawful authority; or ...SNIP

Yelling "GUN" in a crowd could logically be expected to cause a class 3 CF as the previously lawful assemblage heads for the exits.

The screamer isn't blocking traffic but using others to do so. Like I said, a stretch.

 

[jbone]

They are too involved in their own life to worry about someone else's.

Reminds me of a show I saw last night "Brain Games". I'm guessing our brain doesn't see the gun as something worthy of re-directing (not important) our sole attention to. Must be more accepted and common place then we think, and far more then anti's are saying?

Brains have two kinds of attention. The first, called "top-down" or decision-making attention, is what you use when you decide to focus on a stimulus or task (such as this article). Top-down attention is controlled by the part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex. Second, we employ "bottom-up" or surprise attention when we quickly shift our focus onto an unexpected stimulus, such as a ringing phone. This is a more primitive response system controlled in areas of the brain called the sensory cortices.
http://news.yahoo.com/brain-games-tv-show-mind-blowing-141203097.html

 

[Freedom1Man]

Reminds me of a show I saw last night "Brain Games". I'm guessing our brain doesn't see the gun as something worthy of re-directing (not important) our sole attention to. Must be more accepted and common place then we think, and far more then anti's are saying?

HeadGames
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/head-games/

 

[jbone]

HeadGames
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/head-games/

Nice catch, thanks.

 

[ManInBlack]

In a fair number of places, serious martial artists (black belts, professional boxers, etc) are considered to be armed with a deadly weapon, when barehanded.

Just curious if you have a cite for that, whether in any statute, in any prosecutor's written policy, or in any legal opinion?

 

[BrownC6]

Bad choices...

So I am coming into this a bit late but I have encountered this kind of problem before and it is very dangerous also has the potential to end VERY badly, I was OCing inside Westlake Center in downtown Seattle I had been new to doing this and had not been aware at the time of the policy they have against firearms in the mall... that's a whole different discussion. Entering and walking through most of the 1st floor had been fine that changed inside one of the shops a woman of 52 noticed the 1911 I had on my side and decided it would be a good idea to literally scream out "GUN" I immediately turned around to see her pointing at me, I placed my hands in a non threatening position and attempted to talk to the lady, before being able say or do anything I felt a hand from behind grip my 1911... this immediately turned into a physical confrontation a visitor into town decided he needed to take the firearm from the obviously dangerous person in the mall by trying to slip it out of the holster while their back was turned, this person went to the ground quickly but it did not end there, a second man a friend accompanying the first came from behind and attempted to bring me to the ground, this resulted in a short scuffle and him being kicked off and myself making the decision to end the situation immediately by placing my hand on my 1911 and yelling stop or I'll shoot, thankfully the situation ended there, less than a minute and a Seattle police Officer ran in, inside lengthy conversations with SPD they explained to the two males that decided to intervene the way they did that it could have resulted in the situation ending in an injury or death, as well the woman was cited and practically yelled at regarding her actions and explained that what she did was the most dangerous thing she could have done because of the panic and actions taken that yelling that brought on.

Everyone involved was very fortunate that this ended peacefully and with minimal injury.

My personal suggestion to you and everyone here, if someone yells or says something along the nature of GUN! or watch out behind you that person has a gun! anything along those lines said in a public setting to attract attention, #1 make yourself 1000 times more aware of everyone around you, #2 politely explain that even if they were kidding that simple action can trigger panic and/or rash actions from anyone around and in such is VERY dangerous. Personally I would like to slap them and tell them NO! like your telling a child no and put them through public decency training... but a polite explanation is the better option.

 

[skiingislife725]

Just curious if you have a cite for that, whether in any statute, in any prosecutor's written policy, or in any legal opinion?

The only thing that I've heard that sounded like it actually had some truth to it was that IF you know that the person that is attacking you was trained in martial arts, then you have more leniency in your use of force. But that's only if you know BEFOREHAND...and it's not like there's some registry. Besides, it would largely depend on the art. Tae kwon do versus BJJ, for example. Or their age. A 12-year old black belt in karate or tae kwon do doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

So I am coming into this a bit late but I have encountered this kind of problem before and it is very dangerous also has the potential to end VERY badly, I was OCing inside Westlake Center in downtown Seattle I had been new to doing this and had not been aware at the time of the policy they have against firearms in the mall... that's a whole different discussion. Entering and walking through most of the 1st floor had been fine that changed inside one of the shops a woman of 52 noticed the 1911 I had on my side and decided it would be a good idea to literally scream out "GUN" I immediately turned around to see her pointing at me, I placed my hands in a non threatening position and attempted to talk to the lady, before being able say or do anything I felt a hand from behind grip my 1911... this immediately turned into a physical confrontation a visitor into town decided he needed to take the firearm from the obviously dangerous person in the mall by trying to slip it out of the holster while their back was turned, this person went to the ground quickly but it did not end there, a second man a friend accompanying the first came from behind and attempted to bring me to the ground, this resulted in a short scuffle and him being kicked off and myself making the decision to end the situation immediately by placing my hand on my 1911 and yelling stop or I'll shoot, thankfully the situation ended there, less than a minute and a Seattle police Officer ran in, inside lengthy conversations with SPD they explained to the two males that decided to intervene the way they did that it could have resulted in the situation ending in an injury or death, as well the woman was cited and practically yelled at regarding her actions and explained that what she did was the most dangerous thing she could have done because of the panic and actions taken that yelling that brought on.

Everyone involved was very fortunate that this ended peacefully and with minimal injury.

My personal suggestion to you and everyone here, if someone yells or says something along the nature of GUN! or watch out behind you that person has a gun! anything along those lines said in a public setting to attract attention, #1 make yourself 1000 times more aware of everyone around you, #2 politely explain that even if they were kidding that simple action can trigger panic and/or rash actions from anyone around and in such is VERY dangerous. Personally I would like to slap them and tell them NO! like your telling a child no and put them through public decency training... but a polite explanation is the better option.

When did this take place? What was the women of 52 cited for? How did you find out the woman's age? Were the 2 men arrested for assault? Were you arrested for battery? A minute and a half SPD response time inside Westlake Center, WOW that was really really quick. Inquiring minds want to know!!!

 

[BigDave]

In a fair number of places, serious martial artists (black belts, professional boxers, etc) are considered to be armed with a deadly weapon, when barehanded.

Takes quite a bit of gall for someone to get on your case for having a deadly weapon, when they ARE a deadly weapon.

I agree with what you are saying here, it has to with a disparity of force or one unable to defend from a greater force that is likely to cause grievous bodily harm or death, be it one of the destructive arts, size and strength, greater numbers or being injured in a confrontation to a point where you can no longer physically defend yourself against someone of like size, strength and capabilities.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I was trained that "GUN!" was a verbal indicator of an armed threat.. If someone yells "GUN!", frantically, it means 'identify and neutralize the threat'.

"firearm" is what is to be used in a non-critical situation.


The post above shows the absolute need for situational awareness, and retention training.