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Banning guns for political groups

Hef

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you mean you people would want to see "occupy wall street bunch " carrying? talk about hate groups

I don't want to see them carrying guns, but I fully support their right to do so. If we decide that it is OK to deny certain rights to certain groups based solely upon ideology, we set a dangerous precedent that will eventually work against us. I do not believe in guns only for those who share my beliefs.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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I don't want to see them carrying guns, but I fully support their right to do so. If we decide that it is OK to deny certain rights to certain groups based solely upon ideology, we set a dangerous precedent that will eventually work against us. I do not believe in guns only for those who share my beliefs.

OWS types don't carry guns, well, the Hippie types are anti.--they'd be about as good an aim as you average LEO.
 

Hef

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OWS types don't carry guns, well, the Hippie types are anti.--they'd be about as good an aim as you average LEO.

While I am sure they're rare, I have known pro-gun hippies. I had hippy neighbors who loved their SKS rifles.

The way I see it, it's better for freedom when a wide spectrum of people support the free exercise of any right. I don't agree with the politics of the socialists nor do I support gay marriage, but I firmly support the right of each to be armed for his/her own defense. For the good of society, I also believe in maintaining public shooting ranges.
 
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nonameisgood

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Why would you bring gay marriage into this discussion, Mr ChickFilA?

We are having a perfectly lovely discussion about hate groups, and then, oh, never mind. ;-)

I think there may be good policy reasons to require voluntary disarmament when protesting in a time, place, and manner when protestors or counter protestors may become enraged but a police presence is organized to prorect protestors. It is a compromise, but all it would take is one problem with an infiltrator or angry mob to result in rapid escalation thru "self-preservation".
It's like our prohibition at pro sporting matches here in Texas. No one wants soccer hooligans with pistoles.
 

Jack House

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Why would you bring gay marriage into this discussion, Mr ChickFilA?

We are having a perfectly lovely discussion about hate groups, and then, oh, never mind. ;-)

I think there may be good policy reasons to require voluntary disarmament when protesting in a time, place, and manner when protestors or counter protestors may become enraged but a police presence is organized to prorect protestors. It is a compromise, but all it would take is one problem with an infiltrator or angry mob to result in rapid escalation thru "self-preservation".
It's like our prohibition at pro sporting matches here in Texas. No one wants soccer hooligans with pistoles.
Until the next big shooting at a sports stadium.

Disarming people only disarms the lawabiding~
 

Hef

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Why would you bring gay marriage into this discussion, Mr ChickFilA?

We are having a perfectly lovely discussion about hate groups, and then, oh, never mind. ;-)

I think there may be good policy reasons to require voluntary disarmament when protesting in a time, place, and manner when protestors or counter protestors may become enraged but a police presence is organized to prorect protestors. It is a compromise, but all it would take is one problem with an infiltrator or angry mob to result in rapid escalation thru "self-preservation".
It's like our prohibition at pro sporting matches here in Texas. No one wants soccer hooligans with pistoles.

I disagree. Once we concede that it's OK to prohibit guns at certain times in public places, it is then too easy for others to argue what those times and places are. In places where some feel there is a greater likelihood of an incident, such as your soccer hooligans scenario, I would counter that such a situation gives me greater reason than usual to be armed. I can think of no situation where being disarmed is advantageous.
 

OC for ME

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nonameisgood.....for a fella that has this moniker you sure do like to throw out names.....Mr. Chick-fil-a?

It seems that you have a "gay marriage chip" on your shoulder.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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I disagree. Once we concede that it's OK to prohibit guns at certain times in public places, it is then too easy for others to argue what those times and places are. In places where some feel there is a greater likelihood of an incident, such as your soccer hooligans scenario, I would counter that such a situation gives me greater reason than usual to be armed. I can think of no situation where being disarmed is advantageous.

Agreed. I can't think of any right now, but if you could come up with a scenario I would agree with disarming protesters I still wouldn't support a law about it. It's too slippery on that slope.
 

nonameisgood

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The party out of power always wants arms until they get power.

The "Mr CFA" was in jest, aside from obviously pointing out that the group fighting against access to similar treatment for people different than themselves were headed for the "hate" end of extreme. The whole CFA saga was a publicity play, maybe not as he had planned, but he said what he did to further his business and get business from the near-bigots. Instead, he got the anti-gay marriage people AND the "free speech" people (because some idiot politicians decided it was ok to use his speech for denial of rights.) And it's not ok to stick your head up, say something hateful, then say "oh, we want to stay out of politics" once you get your lines out the door. I have no vested interest in gay marriage except I think people should be treated fairly by the government, including the ability to select with whom you will spend your dying moments. Just imagine if the law did not permit you to visit your spouse of long standing while he/she was in the hospital, or you were not permitted to hold joint property, or get group health coverage for you both through your employer.

As for gun-free protests, I think it makes sense to disarm when you are going somewhere intending to upset people or even intending to make them angry. It's not exactly self defense when you get what you ask for. But that's probably just the city slicker in me, forgetting that an armed society is a polite society.
 

OC for ME

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<snip> Just imagine if the law did not permit you to visit your spouse of long standing while he/she was in the hospital, or you were not permitted to hold joint property, or get group health coverage for you both through your employer.

As for gun-free protests, I think it makes sense to disarm when you are going somewhere intending to upset people or even intending to make them angry. It's not exactly self defense when you get what you ask for. But that's probably just the city slicker in me, forgetting that an armed society is a polite society.
General power of attourney, revocable of course, living trusts, the telephone, making prior arrangement with healthcare providers, insurance underwriters, the courts, the government.

More hassles, more time, more money? Yepper, but isn't your loved one worth the effort?

Typical excusses used by the lazy loony-left.
 

Freedom1Man

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General power of attorney, revocable of course, living trusts, the telephone, making prior arrangement with healthcare providers, insurance underwriters, the courts, the government.

More hassles, more time, more money? Yepper, but isn't your loved one worth the effort?

Typical excuses used by the lazy loony-left.

Too true, those who claim to want "equal" rights only want special rights.
 

nonameisgood

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I contend that married people get special benefits not available to others, and you list those for me, thank you. No one is asking for special treatment, just equal access.

How about we simply eliminate the special privileges married people enjoy instead?

BTW, do you hate gay people, or are you just oblivious to the double standard?
 

OC for ME

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I contend that married people get special benefits not available to others, and you list those for me, thank you. No one is asking for special treatment, just equal access.

How about we simply eliminate the special privileges married people enjoy instead?

BTW, do you hate gay people, or are you just oblivious to the double standard?
Now it is a "gay chip" on your shoulder. You may fling the "you hate gays" label all you want. I consider the source when folks resort to base insults to gain the advantage in a debate. I reject your label.

I related what gays can do today to get the access that "married" folks enjoy. Until the laws change it is what it is. Being a married guy, gay marriage is not even on my political radar given the current state of out country. Sadly gay marriage is a fringe issue for a great many citizens regardless of what the lefty media wishes us to believe. Most folks will get around to the gay marriage issue when they have a job and are more secure in their financial lives.

I wonder if you get the picture. Most folks, slight majority, may not "like" gay marriage but I don't see them actively opposing gay marriage. Folks care until they have to do something about it then they don't care as much as they thought. Kind of like politics, folks will complain and then not even vote.
 

nonameisgood

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It was a serious question, not intended to insult you. Some people take a side and argue, but when it come down to it, they don't have a dog in the hunt. You don't have a dog in the hunt, and so it would appear the alternative stance applies: you don't see the issue.

Agreed that it is fringe, which is why it is easy to trivialize and marginalize the problem, leaving people without real options. Yes, they could try to get similar status, but it is not that simple. If my wife were in a wreck and I walked into the hospital and said "you have permission to perform this life saving measure", they would do it. If a domestic partner had done the same, without some legal wrangling and a verifiable copy of a POA for healthcare, the hospital would do what they wanted instead. It's not trivial to those involved and I don't see what those on the traditional marriage side of things are concerned about.
 

OC for ME

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Obviously I am not oblivious to the "issue" if I postulated alternatives and give lip service to the hurdles that accompany those alternatives. Medical directives are for anyone who wishes to get one. My mother has one where I make her medical decisions in the event she can not make her own decision.

No excuses, the options are available. It only requires the effort to gain the access and privileges that "normal" married folk have been given by fiat. Fair? Of course not. Then again it ain't "fair" getting singled out by LE for exercising a right in plain sight.

I didn't make the rules, but we all here try to encourage others that we abide by the rules to set a good example for our fellow citizens.
 

Jack House

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Obviously I am not oblivious to the "issue" if I postulated alternatives and give lip service to the hurdles that accompany those alternatives. Medical directives are for anyone who wishes to get one. My mother has one where I make her medical decisions in the event she can not make her own decision.

No excuses, the options are available. It only requires the effort to gain the access and privileges that "normal" married folk have been given by fiat. Fair? Of course not. Then again it ain't "fair" getting singled out by LE for exercising a right in plain sight.

I didn't make the rules, but we all here try to encourage others that we abide by the rules to set a good example for our fellow citizens.
So if gay marriage was on the ballot in November, you'd vote to allow it, right?
 

twoskinsonemanns

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It's such a weird argument to me. It think it is appalling that people need a license from their government to be married. How did that come about I wonder. I vote no gay marriage and no straight marriage.

Of course I mean government licensing marriage. If two people want to commit to join each other that's great. If you want to take vows before a god or religion of you choice awesome. Why in the world would people need their government's permission?
 

Freedom1Man

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It's such a weird argument to me. It think it is appalling that people need a license from their government to be married. How did that come about I wonder. I vote no gay marriage and no straight marriage.

Of course I mean government licensing marriage. If two people want to commit to join each other that's great. If you want to take vows before a god or religion of you choice awesome. Why in the world would people need their government's permission?

I've been arguing for years that there is/should not be any license required.

Since when do I need a license to preform the sacrament?
 

Jack House

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It's such a weird argument to me. It think it is appalling that people need a license from their government to be married. How did that come about I wonder. I vote no gay marriage and no straight marriage.

Of course I mean government licensing marriage. If two people want to commit to join each other that's great. If you want to take vows before a god or religion of you choice awesome. Why in the world would people need their government's permission?

I've been arguing for years that there is/should not be any license required.

Since when do I need a license to preform the sacrament?
You don't, your marriage just wont be legally recognized.
 
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