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Thread: midlothian walmart

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    midlothian walmart

    Had just walked in to the midlothiam walmart with my two young daughters and my 67 year old disabled mother. Was pushing a cart withnmy two daughters in it when I was approached by shift manager Paul....he introduced himself and said that firearms were not allowed in the store and that I must put the weapon in my vehicle. I said I have open carried in walmarts all over the state for years and witness it everyday. He said its private property and that Va law doesnt hold there. I said I am leaving but I wanted the name of someone higher than him. He said I dont have to leave but I have to put the gun in my vehicle. I said I dont believe that he is representing corporate policy and I asked him if I was being singled out on his own account or is he representing company policy...he said I had frightened some customers. I said that I am legally carrying and that I hadnt even spoken to anyone, looked at anyone or anything out of the way whatsoever. I went to the car, put my .45 colt up and returned to the customer service counter, I asked if there was someone there higher than him...I was told no by some supervisor. This same supervisor said he sees guns in there all of the time and that he knew of no policy against firearms in the store. I agreed and said that I felt as if I had been singled out and discrimination occurred. I was given the corporate number and the store number as well as the managers name....I called thecorporate number and relayed all of this info as well as the fact that we spend more than $ 400 per week in walmart and visit walmart more than5 times per week...we also have all of our prescriptions there. My mother was going to have her hair done and my wife her nails, but we were asked to leave. I was told that the incident would be sent to the store manager by corporate and that the store manager would contact me personally within 3 days.
    It doesnt change the legality of it but maybe perception, I wear snake skin boots with a cowboy hat and a ivory handled .45 colt in a crossdraw rig just in front of front pants pocket..perhaps if it were neatly seated in a snug fitting slide holster like a business man, nothing would have been said
    Last edited by thedevilrobyjohn; 06-22-2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: more info

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    No comment on how you dealt with it, as nothing was egregiously "wrong".

    Please do follow up. Follow-up by phone might be easier and less time consuming. If you do not alread have the equipment for recording your phone calls fo and spend the few bucks to get it.

    The store manager, if Paul is not the head honcho, is the place to start. If no satisfaction there you just work up the food chain. Remember to get names (full names) before you get into any conversations. And be sure to use their name when talking with (notice I did not say "talking to") them. If you need to go past the District Manager to the Regional Manager I will be surprised. WalMart is known for their policy of following whatever the local law is. The higher up you have to go for someone to tell Paul that the worse it is going to be for him.

    It's strange that Paul would not tell the customers who went to him saying they were frightened by seeing you walking around with a gun that you were breaking no law unless you did nomething to overtly threaten someone, but semed to have no problem telling you to put your gun in the car.

    I do not recommend this to anybody else, but once in a while if I am feeling really annoyed with someone who wants me to put the gun in the car I will explain how that risks having it stolen, and ask instead if I could put it in their safe while I shop. I will not mention which Assistant Manager of which CVS drug store at the intersection of Walmsly Blvd and Turner Rd said that would be OK. ::headpalm:: (According to a friend who works for a different chain, there was probably between $10K and $20K in the safe.)

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: midlothian walmart

    Well they way one dresses can cause simple minded folk to make judgements. Wal-mart's is a wishy washy in that they allow store manager's to make the call. That's an awful lot of power (life & death) to put in the hands of a shift manager or for that matter the produce manager! What would they say if said managers started kicking out arab looking people because they could be terrorists? Or black people with african accents because they might be a underwear bomber? Or bald white men because they could be members of a white power group? Seems to be a really slippery slope. IMHO. Wonder what the payout would be to your surving family if some kook walked up to the customer service counter and gunned you down after the manager had forced you to disarm? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Well they way one dresses can cause simple minded folk to make judgements. Wal-mart's is a wishy washy in that they allow store manager's to make the call. That's an awful lot of power (life & death) to put in the hands of a shift manager or for that matter the produce manager! What would they say if said managers started kicking out arab looking people because they could be terrorists? Or black people with african accents because they might be a underwear bomber? Or bald white men because they could be members of a white power group? Seems to be a really slippery slope. IMHO. Wonder what the payout would be to your surving family if some kook walked up to the customer service counter and gunned you down after the manager had forced you to disarm? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Funny thing about that is that ill never completely disarm...they cant see all of my **** and they focus on open carry....its getting worse for me instead of better....is this a trend reserved for me....Im at the frontlines...card carrying member of nra and vcdl....most of my wardrobe is progun, pro 2nd....I ALWAYS carry....Ive said it before and ill say it now.....open carry takes a special kind of person or my kind of person learning to deal with stupid people better....how much of a ******* threat am i holding an infant and pushing a child while guiding my disabled mother and crippled wife....my god....im a target for criminals because my hands are so full and my attention is so diverted.....my mom has her concealed in her purse, but its the open carry that lights the fuse....im just frustrated....**** i was in a good mood and hoping to find something at the ammo counter...tired of paying greentops inflated prices

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    Funny thing about that is that ill never completely disarm...they cant see all of my **** and they focus on open carry....its getting worse for me instead of better....is this a trend reserved for me....Im at the frontlines...card carrying member of nra and vcdl....most of my wardrobe is progun, pro 2nd....I ALWAYS carry....Ive said it before and ill say it now.....open carry takes a special kind of person or my kind of person learning to deal with stupid people better....how much of a ******* threat am i holding an infant and pushing a child while guiding my disabled mother and crippled wife....my god....im a target for criminals because my hands are so full and my attention is so diverted.....my mom has her concealed in her purse, but its the open carry that lights the fuse....im just frustrated....**** i was in a good mood and hoping to find something at the ammo counter...tired of paying greentops inflated prices
    I can't answer your question but it doesn't take a special person to OC, it's just a preferred method for some of us for different reasons.

    Open carry has always been the norm for country folks and in fact, some places were impossible to get CWP's in. (They were CWP's then)

    The new trend in open carry is in the Burbs and cities. When I first got on this site I made the observation that black holsters drew less attention than brown. The hardy boys from NOVA jumped on me about that right off. Thankfully most of them are long gone and playing James Bond with CHP's now.

    I'll make the same observation now about guns. Glocks draw less attention than revolvers. I assume because Cops carry Glockish guns, Sooooo....when I'm going somewhere I don't want to attract attention (or it's raining), I carry a Glock or Beretta.

    The point of all this rambling is that how you appear does shape how management will deal with complaints and if there are any complaints to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I can't answer your question but it doesn't take a special person to OC, it's just a preferred method for some of us for different reasons.

    Open carry has always been the norm for country folks and in fact, some places were impossible to get CWP's in. (They were CWP's then)

    The new trend in open carry is in the Burbs and cities. When I first got on this site I made the observation that black holsters drew less attention than brown. The hardy boys from NOVA jumped on me about that right off. Thankfully most of them are long gone and playing James Bond with CHP's now.

    I'll make the same observation now about guns. Glocks draw less attention than revolvers. I assume because Cops carry Glockish guns, Sooooo....when I'm going somewhere I don't want to attract attention (or it's raining), I carry a Glock or Beretta.

    The point of all this rambling is that how you appear does shape how management will deal with complaints and if there are any complaints to deal with.
    I remember back in the day before my bones ached so bad in Martinsville,you had to have a reason for ccp and go before the sherriff or judge. I open carried, then as a bouncer, I got a ccp. I moved to the city from a 72 acre farm in Bassett. Now ccps are as common as a cold. City versus county, yep ..you are correct

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Well they way one dresses can cause simple minded folk to make judgements. Wal-mart's is a wishy washy in that they allow store manager's to make the call. That's an awful lot of power (life & death) to put in the hands of a shift manager or for that matter the produce manager! What would they say if said managers started kicking out arab looking people because they could be terrorists? Or black people with african accents because they might be a underwear bomber? Or bald white men because they could be members of a white power group? Seems to be a really slippery slope. IMHO. Wonder what the payout would be to your surving family if some kook walked up to the customer service counter and gunned you down after the manager had forced you to disarm? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    I'm not sure this is true. Does anyone know of a Walmart that banned OC, which when properly followed up with the management chain was allowed to stand?

    From what I understand, if properly pursued, all Walmart incidents have been resolved in the favor of legal carry according to local / state law.

    Please correct me if that is wrong.

    TFred

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    Re: midlothian walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I'm not sure this is true. Does anyone know of a Walmart that banned OC, which when properly followed up with the management chain was allowed to stand?

    From what I understand, if properly pursued, all Walmart incidents have been resolved in the favor of legal carry according to local / state law.

    Please correct me if that is wrong.

    TFred
    Never said they banned OC. Their official policy is they follow state law. This said store manager have asked OC to leave citing management's authority. That's where the rub comes in. Once corporate is contacted usually a response is received by the OCer that things have been resolved with that particular manager or employee. To me it seems Wal-mart is (maybe not on purpose) trying to have it both ways?
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Hold on a second.....

    You said.....
    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    Had just walked in to the midlothiam walmart with my two young daughters and my 67 year old disabled mother. .........when I was approached by shift manager Paul....he introduced himself and said that firearms were not allowed in the store and that I must put the weapon in my vehicle.
    and then you said.....


    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    Funny thing about that is that ill never completely disarm...they cant see all of my **** and they focus on open carry...............my mom has her concealed in her purse.....

    So, after we learned how you illegally trespassed at Cracker Barrel here - http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...rel-on-gaskins....

    Now you go to Wal-Mart and are told that no firearms are allowed, so you put your OC'd gun in the car, and then you and your mother both trespassed in Wal-Mart with your concealed carry guns?


    Wow......just wow.
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    ...............................

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    ::yawn:: I hear echoes... anyone else?



    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Hold on a second.....

    You said.....

    and then you said.....





    So, after we learned how you illegally trespassed at Cracker Barrel here - http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...rel-on-gaskins....

    Now you go to Wal-Mart and are told that no firearms are allowed, so you put your OC'd gun in the car, and then you and your mother both trespassed in Wal-Mart with your concealed carry guns?


    Wow......just wow.
    no, we went to the vehicle where she remained with my daughters..never returning to the store...when i say other ****...i am an avid knife thrower and blade fanatic, never said bug this time...at cracker barrel, yes. at walmart no...funny that i only had one gun but the others were in the vehicle. wow, thats right...a person who believes that protecting his family is important..wow just wow...reminds me of why i canceled my registration a year or so ago. I was just wondering about other experiences and giving a heads up, i could give a **** about anyones personal opinion or ******* know it all attitudes...i work many many hours and cant sit online all day.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ..I feel so....mainstream

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    no, we went to the vehicle where she remained with my daughters..never returning to the store...when i say other ****...i am an avid knife thrower and blade fanatic, never said bug this time...at cracker barrel, yes. at walmart no...funny that i only had one gun but the others were in the vehicle. wow, thats right...a person who believes that protecting his family is important..wow just wow...reminds me of why i canceled my registration a year or so ago. I was just wondering about other experiences and giving a heads up, i could give a **** about anyones personal opinion or ******* know it all attitudes...i work many many hours and cant sit online all day.
    You might want to take a deep breath, clear your head, and not test the limits of language filters.

    No one has said that desiring to protect your family was a bad thing. How you do that and where are considerations though. We do not break the law and we do not violate directives by private property owners.

    I am curious about the "canceled my registration" thing - you aren't referring to this site are you?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Just a little more and not to really criticize, just change direction a little. There are a ton of internet sites where one can go to talk about armed revolt, best ways to break the law and not get caught, how to exact revenge on the Corporate overseers....so on.

    OCDO is a little different. Most of us open carry at least some of the time. The goal here is to have the most knowledgeable and active group in this country.

    We do that by discussing the laws, knowing them completely, how to change them,how to challenge authority that does not want to follow the law and how to educate the anti's.

    We've been fairly successful at that and even though there is a ton of...figh...er, spirited debate over some subjects, it's academic not subversive. Plenty of other places to discuss the best way to tie shoelaces together so the fellow falls on a sharp stake.

    FWIW at least one of the members in this discussion had a similar problem with a Walmart. He has taken quite a bit of pride in essentially slapping the Manager and Guard involved, by contacting the Corporate office and correcting the attitude of the locals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Just a little more and not to really criticize, just change direction a little. There are a ton of internet sites where one can go to talk about armed revolt, best ways to break the law and not get caught, how to exact revenge on the Corporate overseers....so on.

    OCDO is a little different. Most of us open carry at least some of the time. The goal here is to have the most knowledgeable and active group in this country.

    We do that by discussing the laws, knowing them completely, how to change them,how to challenge authority that does not want to follow the law and how to educate the anti's.

    We've been fairly successful at that and even though there is a ton of...figh...er, spirited debate over some subjects, it's academic not subversive. Plenty of other places to discuss the best way to tie shoelaces together so the fellow falls on a sharp stake.

    FWIW at least one of the members in this discussion had a similar problem with a Walmart. He has taken quite a bit of pride in essentially slapping the Manager and Guard involved, by contacting the Corporate office and correcting the attitude of the locals.
    not interested in any crazy websites like that, would like the same resolution as this other member had. Was doing nothing wrong and mine and my families day was ruined, was under the impression...after years of practice that walmart was just fine. It is just a report of possible policy changes in effect at that walmart or an over zealous anti with power? Its not my neck of the woods anyway...was just there for a birthday party. In Ashland, I routinely meet and speak with open carriers every day or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    not interested in any crazy websites like that, would like the same resolution as this other member had. Was doing nothing wrong and mine and my families day was ruined, was under the impression...after years of practice that walmart was just fine. It is just a report of possible policy changes in effect at that walmart or an over zealous anti with power? Its not my neck of the woods anyway...was just there for a birthday party. In Ashland, I routinely meet and speak with open carriers every day or so.
    "We follow the laws of the state in which the store is located" has become the common quote from regional and corporate management. Sometimes that message does not filter down to all local new managers and/or is confused with restrictions on employees carrying while working. It is an on going educational process for both Wal-Mart and ourselves to keep local managers well informed.

    I think Wal-Mart could do a better job of training the mgt. personnel, but at least they are responsive and do get it right eventually when a problem occurs. It is always a good thing to carry a digital recorder, get the name of the person to whom you spoke, and follow through on up the feeding chain.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Hold on a second.....

    You said.....

    Had just walked in to the midlothiam walmart with my two young daughters and my 67 year old disabled mother. Was pushing a cart withnmy two daughters in it when I was approached by shift manager Paul....he introduced himself and said that firearms were not allowed in the store and that I must put the weapon in my vehicle.
    and then you said.....

    So, after we learned how you illegally trespassed at Cracker Barrel here - http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...rel-on-gaskins....

    Now you go to Wal-Mart and are told that no firearms are allowed, so you put your OC'd gun in the car, and then you and your mother both trespassed in Wal-Mart with your concealed carry guns?

    Wow......just wow.
    Just because I really do get off on beating deceased equines:

    Let us not forget

    he said I had frightened some customers
    which had to have happened some time after you had "just walked in" and were told to leave your gun outside.

    Would it be too much to ask that you keep the story straight? Even if it does begin "Once upon a time ...." I'll still enjoy it if it's told well. But the internal inconsistencies make my head hurt.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Alright, we know we don't agree on this, but here's what drives me nuts...

    Simple reading of the OP's scenario: Walks in OC'ing, someone complains to manager, manager asks him to put his gun in the car, OP complies.

    Even though this particular case may not line up, assume OP IS carrying a concealed BUG. He complied with the manager's request, he put the offending gun in the car. Unless the manager is willing to search and force EVERY person carrying a concealed firearm in the store to remove theirs as well, I view the OP as complying with the request, end of story. So what if the manager stated store policy (which by the way, we know is not correct). It was not a request to put the BUG in the car, just the OC'd gun.

    Once again, we are our own worst enemy, going out of our way to look for ways to accuse law-abiding citizens of breaking the law.

    TFred

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: midlothian walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Alright, we know we don't agree on this, but here's what drives me nuts...

    Simple reading of the OP's scenario: Walks in OC'ing, someone complains to manager, manager asks him to put his gun in the car, OP complies.

    Even though this particular case may not line up, assume OP IS carrying a concealed BUG. He complied with the manager's request, he put the offending gun in the car. Unless the manager is willing to search and force EVERY person carrying a concealed firearm in the store to remove theirs as well, I view the OP as complying with the request, end of story. So what if the manager stated store policy (which by the way, we know is not correct). It was not a request to put the BUG in the car, just the OC'd gun.

    Once again, we are our own worst enemy, going out of our way to look for ways to accuse law-abiding citizens of breaking the law.

    TFred
    +1 Trillion !!! Well said sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Just because I really do get off on beating deceased equines:

    Let us not forget



    which had to have happened some time after you had "just walked in" and were told to leave your gun outside.

    Would it be too much to ask that you keep the story straight? Even if it does begin "Once upon a time ...." I'll still enjoy it if it's told well. But the internal inconsistencies make my head hurt.

    stay safe.
    couldnt reply in a timely manner for some reason, technical difficulties? I had walked to the produce isle and placed a watermelon in my cart....it couldnt have been more than 2 minutes in...thats just walked in to me. no one complained, its false...he just saw me and approached. I had no bug and mom was concealed in the beginning...once we left, she remained in the car while i returned ...not unarmed but not armed with a firearm....to the customer service counter....you all disect and read deeply into things that arent there..the situation as it happened still remains..you and proshooter looked deeply and think you uncovered an inconsistency...you called me out a year ago and I came and met you...im real and my experiences are real....its amazing how many lawyers are on here...i thought it was gun enthusiasts like my self concerned with not being a statistic, not being screwed over...im usually wrong about everything except electrical, suppose no exception now....the manager did call me yesterday but i just dont even care anymore...picking me apart on a computer is no task, picking me apart legally is no task...picking me apart physically...theres the rub. so many discussion boards with roaring bulls and loards of every topic possible..tried to give a heads up at cracker barrel, va bazaar, midlo walmart, etc....im just done.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    couldnt reply in a timely manner for some reason, technical difficulties? I had walked to the produce isle and placed a watermelon in my cart....it couldnt have been more than 2 minutes in...thats just walked in to me. no one complained, its false...he just saw me and approached. I had no bug and mom was concealed in the beginning...once we left, she remained in the car while i returned ...not unarmed but not armed with a firearm....to the customer service counter....you all disect and read deeply into things that arent there..the situation as it happened still remains..you and proshooter looked deeply and think you uncovered an inconsistency...you called me out a year ago and I came and met you...im real and my experiences are real....its amazing how many lawyers are on here...i thought it was gun enthusiasts like my self concerned with not being a statistic, not being screwed over...im usually wrong about everything except electrical, suppose no exception now....the manager did call me yesterday but i just dont even care anymore...picking me apart on a computer is no task, picking me apart legally is no task...picking me apart physically...theres the rub. so many discussion boards with roaring bulls and loards of every topic possible..tried to give a heads up at cracker barrel, va bazaar, midlo walmart, etc....im just done.
    We attract more than our fair share of trolls and provocateurs AND what we do is look at circumstances and Monday morning quarterback them - that is giving opinions and looking to improve. No one wishes you to leave, but giving enough information clearly is essential to understanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We attract more than our fair share of trolls and provocateurs AND what we do is look at circumstances and Monday morning quarterback them - that is giving opinions and looking to improve. No one wishes you to leave, but giving enough information clearly is essential to understanding.
    understood....I did write the report uopn re-entering my vehicle before leaving the property...I was angry, upset, wet, just wanted to share and see if this was happening to others, perhaps vent. I should calm down before writing reports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    picking me apart physically...theres the rub. so many discussion boards with roaring bulls and loards of every topic possible..tried to give a heads up at cracker barrel, va bazaar, midlo walmart, etc....im just done.
    If you're done, that's your decision. This board isn't for everyone.

    We've met, got along fine and I don't have any problems with you but you have to understand that this is much more than a "gun board". It is THE place to learn about the rights you have to carry.

    ProShooter and I are friends but he sure doesn't agree with everything I say and the resulting discussions (Arguments) have changed both of us at times. Same for Skidmark and others here.

    There are people I really hate that pop in from time to time but some of the best friends I've ever had are on this board also.

    The board is what it is and it's up to you if you stay or not. but if you do, accept the fact that comments about breaking a law (I know you didn't in this case) will be severely criticized. I get called on the carpet more often than people think because I see the Mods in person and they don't pull any punches.
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-24-2013 at 09:56 AM.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    May 2006
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    North Chesterfield, Va.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    understood....I did write the report uopn re-entering my vehicle before leaving the property...I was angry, upset, wet, just wanted to share and see if this was happening to others, perhaps vent. I should calm down before writing reports.
    Remaining calm and objective in the face of fire is a learned attribute - one that would benefit us all from time to time. That is just an observation, not a personal reference.

    Wal-Mart does require an occassional "adjustment" - that is taking care of business, but by and large they are good neighbors.

    Once they recognize you as someone that will follow through, you will obtain that "special guest" status
    I always make it a point to go back and see the offending employee/manager after the issue has been resolved - not to rub salt, but to double check that the information has been delivered and to shake his/her hand......that always helps to add to the good guy image
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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