Why do gun owners do this to new shooters.

zack991 said:

My wife and her friends who all conceal carry offered her some ideas and they would have had no issue with walking away if it was not wanted. Simply the dealer and boyfriend were dead set on convincing her to buy a smaller gun then what she was wanting. My wife had asked me if it would be ok to invite them to join us at the range. That maybe she would have found a gun she did like or at least get a better idea of what to expect in the different size fir arms. She really liked the 9mm and 40 SW handguns, we forced nothing on her. We wanted to just give her a chance to get hands on with several different guns to help her decide and not feel pressured into buying one gun over the other. Nothing was forced on her and her boyfriend was invited to join us as well, but he had made other plans for the day he said.

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Again if you want to intervene whip out the cash, otherwise it is none of your business. If the girl wanted any gun she could have bought it, as long as she was not a felon, and had the money. All the above is excuses. If she wanted to make a decision on her own her BF or the dealer was not stopping her. Abusive spouses, IMO, do not buy their spouse a gun.

At the end of the day she went home unarmed. Bravo!

good job OP...we need to speak up more when we see these kind of injustices from greedy shop owners.

several years ago i was not so nicely asked to leave certain firearm shop in FV NC because the clerk was pushing really hard on the female customer to buy an 'x' or 'n' frame revolver even tho the lady insisted she wanted to carry it in her purse 'discretely'.

after my conversation with the lady and her male companion, they left the store in search of a basic firearm course and then an appropriate pistol to meet her needs. The manager at the time then decided to challenge me (error in judgement IMHO) for interfering with the clerk and after our 'discussion' was complete, he went and chastised the clerk.

Grape, i am not so 'disengaging' when i see customer's being told, nah, this is the perfect firearm for you and the person is 5'2'', have small wrists and hands and the clerk hands them a large frame revolver. grrr...

never ceases to amaze me why ffls do not provide some type 'free' training pgm as i am firm believer in advising ppl to take a training class, can be minimal, where you handle and shoot a myriad of firearms then and only then go out and search for your personal protection firearm.

marketing ploy...hey customer... for 25$ take an hour seminar from our 'trained' professional, learn how to hold and shoot couple of rounds from a couple of guns and we will refund the 25$ off your purchase price.

ipse

Some ranges with FFLs do offer discount rentals to parties interested in possible purchase & credit all or some of the expense to a purchase made there.

Except in this case the dealer was not trying to sell a overpriced gun. Now if the dealer was pushing a desert eagle I might understand the intervention, as that gun would probably never be carried.

I gotta say most dealers I have encountered have been very good listeners to their buyers. They are there to sell and make money, just like I was as a salesman. I sold hundreds of skiffs for a profit, but I made my money selling small yachts. But I always sold the customer(the one holding the money) what they wanted.

Guns Plus in Spring Lake does push classes, to me it is annoying. So does Ed's gun shop, but they both stop when told to. Unless we know the personal circumstances of a couple we never but into disagreement. And no matter if there was no yelling the GF and the BF were clearly having a small difference of opinion. Which they would not have if she was holding the purse strings.

I don't mind helping people out when they ask for it, but I learned long ago to mind my own business. I have only stuck my nose in on a couple occasions. Both times the potential buyer was trying to make an illegal purchase. Buying a gun for somebody else. Both times the dealer chimed in with me. Not sure if the buyer was aware that it is illegal to purchase from a FFL for another person, unless it is a gift.

I guess we are lucky, we have never had a dealer either together or alone try to push a particular gun. The only problem we have had with that is mechanics.

The problem with the OP is the girl went home unarmed.

Grapeshot said:

Some ranges with FFLs do offer discount rentals to parties interested in possible purchase & credit all or some of the expense to a purchase made there.

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Guns Plus has free range on Wednesdays for female shooters to try out guns. I think they still have to pay for the rental of the gun though. When we were looking for a 380 one of the clerks tried to sell her a Glock, which it only took her a second of holding the gun to say NO. She didn't want to spend $600 for a pocket gun either, after all she was paying for it.

Strange as it sounds fire department usually have a sign up for firearms classes. And the prices are usually reasonable.

Many a BUG has been purchased as a first gun - then relegated to a secondary status as ability and/or knowledge increased.

Grapeshot said:

Many a BUG has been purchased as a first gun - then relegated to a secondary status as ability and/or knowledge increased.

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The best gun to have is the one being carried when needed. Bad guys do not have a preference as to what gun they are shot with.

Women and (perceived) Masculine Purchases

There is a tendency, demonstrated in the OP, for certain males (and even some females), as demonstrated by the clerk and the BF, to assume that no woman has any knowledge of what is perceived to be a "masculine" purchase. Those purchases range from automobiles to, as we have seen here, firearms.

Were I to advise the young lady in the OP, I would advise her to find another boyfriend. This one sounds like one of those males who is controlling and thinks they "own" a particular woman. It is telling that the clerk was supportive of the boyfriend in ignoring what the young lady wanted.

I've accompanied ladies at their request who were shopping for both new and used cars and, even after having made it plain that I was only there as an observer, had the salesperson (yes, women do it to their own gender, too) totally ignore the woman and try to sell me a vehicle for her.

Hats off and a courtly bow to Zack991's wife and friends for stepping up to assist the young woman. They did so in a polite, yet affirmative, manner. I'd be willing to bet the boyfriend sulked for a minimum of two days afterward.

One of my very good friends, who teaches defensive firearms use has a policy of having women try out different calibers and makes. It surprised several folks at the range to no end that my very small wife, with small hands, did better firing my Springfield Armory "Champion" .45 than she did with my friend's .380, which was smaller. Another lady, who is both taller and has larger hands, did better with the .380 than with my pistol.

I spent close to 3 hrs with a lady client reviewing 15 plus hand guns trying to help her decide oh what she should purchase. She really liked the feel of the J frame sized revolvers and she could operate them just fine.

She said a another lady friend brought a LCP and it was so small so light and easy to carry. I advised her against it because she didn't have the hand strength to operate the small slide. She could operate a model 23 Glock as it had more to grab onto.

Against my advise she went out and brought a LCP after spending a few hours on the range with her and her LCP. She just couldn't get the operation down properly.

She finely gave the LCP to her husband and now owns a 5 shot Taurus revolver that she can use.

Even when you give the customer your best and expert advise some times they just don't listen to it.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

I spent close to 3 hrs with a lady client reviewing 15 plus hand guns trying to help her decide oh what she should purchase. She really liked the feel of the J frame sized revolvers and she could operate them just fine.

She said a another lady friend brought a LCP and it was so small so light and easy to carry. I advised her against it because she didn't have the hand strength to operate the small slide. She could operate a model 23 Glock as it had more to grab onto.

Against my advise she went out and brought a LCP after spending a few hours on the range with her and her LCP. She just couldn't get the operation down properly.

She finely gave the LCP to her husband and now owns a 5 shot Taurus revolver that she can use.

Even when you give the customer your best and expert advise some times they just don't listen to it.

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And you did good! When someone asks for advice they are not forced to take it, and the advice would be worthless if it is always what the asker wants to hear. God knows we see that enough on here.

What I find amazing in this day and age, with lady soldiers, cops, pilots, policewomen, construction workers, welders, that people think women need someone to come to their rescue. It really is a insult to the ladies.

They should make a decision on the best available information, and then deal with it. They do not need a knight in shining armor, male or female. Women are more than capable of making up their own mind and making their own purchases. Nothing stopped the girl in this OP from doing so.

If anybody male or female asks for advice or opinions and cannot handle them then they should keep their mouth or keyboard shut.

WalkingWolf said:

Again if you want to intervene whip out the cash, otherwise it is none of your business. If the girl wanted any gun she could have bought it, as long as she was not a felon, and had the money. All the above is excuses. If she wanted to make a decision on her own her BF or the dealer was not stopping her. Abusive spouses, IMO, do not buy their spouse a gun.

At the end of the day she went home unarmed. Bravo!

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I don't understand your attitude in this, WW. We all belong to a cadre of people who are more or less experienced in the safe and effective use of firearms, and I have yet to see anyone get offended when someone more experienced offers some advice. To say that if you offer advice you are on the hook to pay for the choice simply makes no sense to me. You can live your life any way you want and refrain from offering help to a new shooter, but to say that by offering advice that you should be responsible to pay for the other person's choice just seems counter to the idea of experienced people helping a newbie along.

I have been reading through all the low-T induced swagger here looking for the most important piece of information that I do not believe has been brought out on this thread……

what color was the gun she bought???

HPmatt said:

I have been reading through all the low-T induced swagger here looking for the most important piece of information that I do not believe has been brought out on this thread……

what color was the gun she bought???

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From what I gather there is no color if no gun is purchased. Looks like the BF backed out of buying her a gun.

The OP (and co.) did the lady (and "us") a favor

Why so much animosity towards the OP? I realize it is rude to butt in when your opinion isn't wanted, but from the looks of it, the lady with the questions welcomed the advice and the help with familiarizing herself with other firearm platforms in different calibers.

Now, whether the BF appreciated being contradicted ("I'm a man, you're a woman, so I use big bullets while you use bullets I would not trust to put down a threat" double standard) is another matter. However, it sounds like the OP and his significant other did good, as well as the ladies in their company (except for him getting stuck cleaning all the guns; cleaning and maintenance is a very important part of owning and carrying a gun).

Personally, I wouldn't go any lower than a .380 (in FMJ) for a BUG, and nothing lower than a 9mm for carry gun, but when I was first introducing my mother to firearms, I made sure to let her try out some different platforms and calibers. Guess what? She hated the LCP for its kick (her fingers and wrists aren't what they used to be), as well as two Glocktastic 9 mm guns we tried. She found my 1911 chambered in .45 ACP quite manageable, but absolutely loved the ergonomics, LACK of recoil, and ease of use of the CZ 75B in 9mm.

The OP (and co.) did this woman and the gun community a favor by helping the woman steer clear of having an imposed gun that could have made her wary of ever shooting again.

I'm sure she will take comfort in that when she is unarmed when needed...

Well,,,

WalkingWolf said:

I'm sure she will take comfort in that when she is unarmed when needed...

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geeze!!! cant you give that up??

Now that the woman has tried out some guns for real...
Made her own informed choice.

Can we assume"",,, that she will now go and BUY the gun SHE wants,, and their by be ARMED???

1245A Defender said:

geeze!!! cant you give that up??

Now that the woman has tried out some guns for real...
Made her own informed choice.

Can we assume"",,, that she will now go and BUY the gun SHE wants,, and their by be ARMED???

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If she had done that to begin with we would not have this thread. If she is that lame brained not to be able to make decisions on her own, and pay for them, then possibly she may not be competent to handle a firearm. If she was going to go buy the handgun she wants she would not have needed her boyfriend.

Whether male or female someone who needs people to continually hold their hand are not responsible enough to take another persons life in their hands.

I may be wrong, WW, but I read the OP as the young lady not having made a decision on which firearm she wanted because she was "confined" to the cute little pea shooters by an overbearing bf and his accomplice and she couldn't get through to them that she would like to see some other choices. It's great that your wife is very confident and vocal, but some people weren't made that way and may need a good Samaritan to come along once in a while. Just my .02.

1245A Defender said:

geeze!!! cant you give that up??:banghead:

Now that the woman has tried out some guns for real...
Made her own informed choice.

Can we assume"",,, that she will now go and BUY the gun SHE wants,, and their by be ARMED???

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Well,,, I'm not Buttin' in,,, but,,, :uhoh:

+1 ,,, Right on Defender !

Apparently WW Never goes "Window Shopping" ! :lol:

When I buy a car, I do a test drive. This is done because you cannot determine how well a car will perform without taking it out and driving it.

You do not have that luxury at most gun stores.

Buying a first gun based on nothing more than picking them up and seeing how they feel in your hand does not indicate how well the gun is suited to you.

I think that helping that lady by respectfully offering your opinion was a very nice thing to do.

Following up by offering to let her try multiple firearms and to get familiar with the characteristics of each was even nicer.

Now, when she goes to buy her personal protection tool, she will make an even better informed decision.

If she had not wanted the opportunity to try those guns, she would have told you "No Thanks."

Good job on helping a newbie making a first time purchase!