Ferguson Rally in VA?

skidmark said:

ok, i got my riots.

But the chances of the cops getting their act together and shutting it down are even less than me getting back together with the ex-wife.

I spent a good part of the middle 60s - early 70s providing the governmental response to urban civil disturbance/unrest. Dick daley was a rank amature when it came to getting the crowds to go away. From the 1968 mlk jr memorial weenie and neighborhood roast to the 1971 mayday great rush hour shutdown, both in dc, with stops for the hartford seven and a few other clambakes.

It takes lots of bodies to move "protestors" away, and take down ones who choose not to move. No city seems to have been willing to commit the numbers necessary, and thus have ceded control to the rioters.

Stay safe.

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qft !!

skidmark said:

OK, I got my riots.

But the chances of the cops getting their act together and shutting it down are even less than me getting back together with the ex-wife.

I spent a good part of the middle 60s - early 70s providing the governmental response to urban civil disturbance/unrest. Dick Daley was a rank amature when it came to getting the crowds to go away. From the 1968 MLK Jr Memorial Weenie and Neighborhood Roast to the 1971 MayDay Great Rush Hour Shutdown, both in DC, with stops for the Hartford Seven and a few other clambakes.

It takes lots of bodies to move "protestors" away, and take down ones who choose not to move. No city seems to have been willing to commit the numbers necessary, and thus have ceded control to the rioters.

stay safe.

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Like a few others here, I had extensive training in "Crowd Control" with the military/National Guard and we trained on how to disperse, detain and move "protestors". It isn't fun, pretty or enjoyable for anyone. The police in Ferguson were ordered to stand by and not control the looters thanks to Holder and the federal gubermant. They has sufficient personnel and equipment available, but were NOT allowed to use them.

Thank NObama and Holder's corrupt Dept of "justice" for all the destruction and lawlessness.

Am I wrong for thinking that "protesting" was just a cover for "hey let's do the Christmas shopping for a 100% discount this year" ?

scouser said:

Am I wrong for thinking that "protesting" was just a cover for "hey let's do the Christmas shopping for a 100% discount this year" ?

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Nope...

va_tazdad said:

Like a few others here, I had extensive training in "Crowd Control" with the military/National Guard and we trained on how to disperse, detain and move "protestors". It isn't fun, pretty or enjoyable for anyone. The police in Ferguson were ordered to stand by and not control the looters thanks to Holder and the federal gubermant. They has sufficient personnel and equipment available, but were NOT allowed to use them.

Thank NObama and Holder's corrupt Dept of "justice" for all the destruction and lawlessness.

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So wait, now Obama and Holder are to blame? HAH! For what, Fergusonians (sic) refusing to protect their own property and relying of "gobermant" to do it for them?

"Disperse, detain, and move protestors," ""extensive training in crowd control," - It's starting to make sense.

Primus said:

Agree. A small percentage of protestors that loot and cause violence. Seems familiar.

But as long as the good protesters stand by and let them then they are just as bad. Also seems familiar.

........

Add: I know it's tempting for some but the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Some are just animals.

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Primus,

1) I reject your premise that good protesters are just as bad as those that loot and cause violence if they do not intervene and stop the criminals. Citizens are responsible for their own behavior. So a good citizen that does not intervene when there is a rogue citizen IS NOTas bad as the rogue citizen. Police, on the other hand, are responsible to gather evidence and intervene. So a good cop that does not intervene when there is a rogue cop IS as bad as the rogue cop.


2) The actions of some in Ferguson and elsewhere are inexcusable, but the use of the animals comment is pejorative, insulting and inappropriate.

Thundar said:

Primus,

1) I reject your premise that good protesters are just as bad as those that loot and cause violence if they do not intervene and stop the criminals. Citizens are responsible for their own behavior. So a good citizen that does not intervene when there is a rogue citizen IS NOTas bad as the rogue citizen. Police, on the other hand, are responsible to gather evidence and intervene. So a good cop that does not intervene when there is a rogue cop IS as bad as the rogue cop.


2) The actions of some in Ferguson and elsewhere are inexcusable, but the use of the animals comment is pejorative, insulting and inappropriate.

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+1

skidmark said:

OK, I got my riots.

But the chances of the cops getting their act together and shutting it down are even less than me getting back together with the ex-wife.

stay safe.

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[size=+1]Get in the Zone ... Autozone[/size]

No thanks.

The Truth said:

So wait, now Obama and Holder are to blame? HAH! For what, Fergusonians (sic) refusing to protect their own property and relying of "gobermant" to do it for them?

"Disperse, detain, and move protestors," ""extensive training in crowd control," - It's starting to make sense.

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Sadly, a brave few Furgesonians did brave the tumult and try to protect parts of their neighborhood. It seems the best they were able to do was to try and shame the looters as they ran in and out.

Given the disparity of numbers and the volitility of the situation, are you still suggesting they pick up baseball bats and 2x4s, or should they haul the old deer rifle out of the hall closet as they go try to stand in front of Sam's Meat Market?

I'm guessing you have never found yourself in the middle of a riot, let alone on one edge trying to stop those folks from continuing to riot. You might want to peruse this: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/mob-mentality-escaping-from-riots-and-flash-mobs

Maybe not the best response that could have been taken, but given the paucity of numbers it might have been effective in the short run - http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ent-why-didnt-they-shoot-those-looters-video/

stay safe.

There's no doubt it would not be a very positive experience to be a business owner in the middle of a riot, but I would think I'd be doing more to keep from being victimized than inciting them with an aggressively negative verbal assault.

You may choose to read this: https://woborders.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/mlk-on-riots-and-property-destruction/

The Truth said:

So wait, now Obama and Holder are to blame? HAH! For what, Fergusonians (sic) refusing to protect their own property and relying of "gobermant" to do it for them?

"Disperse, detain, and move protestors," ""extensive training in crowd control," - It's starting to make sense.

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Yes, for making the police stand by and let the animals loot and burn thanks to the "justice" dept. directives and "rules of engagement" they were forced to use. For not allowing the use of the National Guard.

Since when do the police let the criminals dictate enforcement of the law?????

NObama stated Monday that "we are a nation of laws", yet they demanded the police stand by and do NOTHING !!!!!!

Yes, I hold the NObama administration at fault for allowing the thugs to run wild.

I have no problem with protestors, but criminals looting and burning buildings are a different thing.

The Truth said:

There's no doubt it would not be a very positive experience to be a business owner in the middle of a riot, but I would think I'd be doing more to keep from being victimized than inciting them with an aggressively negative verbal assault.

You may choose to read this: https://woborders.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/mlk-on-riots-and-property-destruction/

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Look at Koreatown during the LA Rodney King riot - those folks up on the rooftops were not charged with crimes because the prosecutor knew it would be political suicide to go after the only folks who were able to, on their own, stop rioters from burning down their businesses.

...but I would think I'd be doing more to keep from being victimized than inciting them with an aggressively negative verbal assault.

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Just how many Fugerstanians do you think you could have mobilized that night? How many do you think you could have mobilized to wait out the decision for a couple of days? Remember the pictures from August of the 4 guys standing outside a market? Why were other merchants not putting out their own vigilantes? Where were those guys in November?

I've read MLK's piece and been boots-on-the-ground in the middle of NW DC while those seeking to memorialize him torched whole blocks of their own neighborhood. We went by FM3-19.15 http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf which is pretty much unchanged from back then (they have dropped the M-14 with bayonet for the 870 riot shotgun - a very bad move IMHO). If you peruse it you will see the point is not to club/shoot everybody but to deny them access to/move them out of an area. But it takes manpower - something that was not lacking but, on orders, was standing around in other parts of St Louis County "protecting" areas that were under no actual threat.

Who told Gov. Nixon to hold the NG downtown? Who stopped him from moving the NG once the burning started? Those with better access to information about how politics played out that night have suggested (and offered if not evidence then supporting information as opposed to wild speculation) that Gov. Nixon did not make those decisions on his own.

We have many points of disagreement, but I notice that your ratio of questions to assertions is pretty low.

stay safe.

On a totally unrelated note - check out the community organizers in the front and on the sides of the herd as it moves through downtown. http://www.nbc12.com/story/27484613/rva-protesters-flood-city-streets-day-after-ferguson-decision I'm not even going to ask where the folks from "the projects" are in the crowd - you know, the ones supposedly with the most direct and pressing concerns about police interaction. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad to see non-blacks expressing concern.

Also check out the cheer/chant leaders. I'e heard more emotion and spirit at a basketball game at Fishersville School for the Deaf!

stay safe.

Obama has no say (constitutionally) over local police. They still stand by. Reminds me of predators who go after the week and young not the strong.

It took me a while to find this, seeing as how it was buried under all the oter stuff.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_47fc89b3-b0d2-5c41-a1fa-f4636673aac0.html

Along West Florissant just north of 270, in Greystone Plaza, about 20 men with handguns and AR-15 rifles stood around the perimeter of the parking lot, guarding the dozen or so stores.

They estimated that 100 cars had come by throughout the night, seemingly to check the place out, but turned away.

Mike Cross, the owner of St. Louis Ink at the plaza, said: “There's nothing in this strip mall open, so you're going to get scrutinized.”

The strip mall had been hit by vandals soon after the shooting in August.

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and

A couple miles north of the police station, about six men stood in front of Greystone Plaza, a small shopping center that had been looted soon after the Michael Brown shooting in August. The men wore masks and carried handguns and AR-15 rifles.

"I will definitely call police first," in case the store sees trouble, said St. Louis Ink Tattoo studio owner Mike Cross, 35. "We are not trigger happy by any means. We all have families, and homes and vehicles and bills. So this place cannot go anywhere."

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One - one effing group - got together to mutually protect their businesses. Again, I ask where were all the other Furgeson business owners?

stay safe.

But why the heck do they need to protect their businesses?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/ferguson-protests-michael-brown/70067388/

Still, Ferguson resident Malik Rhasaan, a community organizer with Hands Up United, said the carnage was nothing compared with the sight of Brown's body lying in the street for several hours following his death. "They have insurance. They can rebuild,'' said Rhasaan, 42. "The life of Mike Brown can't be rebuilt. Our patience cannot be rebuilt.

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Lawdog http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2014/11/ferguson.html has the response to that.

stay sasfe.

I was just going to say... the biz owners are probably off somewhere counting zeroes on their insurance claims.

As for me asking you questions skid, there will be a time for that again in the future.

The Truth said:

....

As for me asking you questions skid, there will be a time for that again in the future.

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Was I being too cryptic? Or are you truely that egotistical that you believed the questions were directed specifically at you?

Questioning as a means of seeking additional information in order to accumulate additional data from which to derive conclusions, as opposed to repeating platitudes as veracity.

PM sent.

va_tazdad said:

Like a few others here, I had extensive training in "Crowd Control" with the military/National Guard and we trained on how to disperse, detain and move "protestors". It isn't fun, pretty or enjoyable for anyone. The police in Ferguson were ordered to stand by and not control the looters thanks to Holder and the federal gubermant. They has sufficient personnel and equipment available, but were NOT allowed to use them.

Thank NObama and Holder's corrupt Dept of "justice" for all the destruction and lawlessness.

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Do you have any sort of proof of this? The reason I ask is that this is what the lieutenant governor of Missouri inferred a few days ago... that the governor of the state had been told not to release his National Guard the night the verdict was made public.