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Had the police called while I was shopping

C

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
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Puddin99 wrote:
SNIP "are you a lawyer?" when it appears that you may know something about the law. What would be the best response for that situation?

Ken
Click to expand...

Actually, its probably best not to respond at all, and ask your own question in a direction that forwards your strategy. For example, "Am I be detained, Officer?" Or, "Why am I being detained officer?""Who called?" "What was reported?" You want all the information you can get. The police know they can't get very far from reasonable suspicion to probable cause with a silent citizen. There is no reason you can't use police interview tactics against them.The more information you can get them to leak, the betterposition you will be in with a formal complaint or suit.

If you're feeling like taking it to the line with them, you might ask "Will I get my rights back if I say I am lawyer?""Will you be more professional and respect my rights if I say I am lawyer?" "Oh? Only lawyers have rights?"

Nathan, this was possibly an illegal Terry Stop and Terry weapon seizure. You need the 911 call recording and radio traffic recordings to see what the police were told.
 
I

irfner

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Nov 24, 2007
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434
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SeaTac, Washington, USA
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Nathan; I am sorry to hear about the problems you encountered. All things considered I think you handled it pretty well.The cops knew theywere breaking the law and youwere not,yet they proceed to intimidate and harass you. The policehave the authority of the badge and when it is misused that can be very intimidating. Recordings will work provided you are not arrested. If you arearrested the police will have your recorder while you are in jail. After an illegal arrest what is a little illegal tape destruction?

I doubt your complaint will go very far but you should file it anyway. If you can spare the costyoushould ask an attorney to file it for you. Or at least send a letter. It will carry considerably more weight than if you do it alone. He could also request the 911 tapes etc. Again it probably won't go anywheres but at least they will know you mean business. That way you can be sure the officers involved will have to explain their actions to some superior somewhere. There is nothing like posturing for a law suite to get the police attention.Puts themon noticeif they continue to harass you it could cost them. Besides that it will make you feel better. Also it wouldn't hurt for the attorney to send a note to the store informing them that open carry is not illegal in this state. Just so they don't create a situation where they get sued as a participant in a false arrest.
 
O

ooguyx

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Dec 29, 2007
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Renton, Washington, USA
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I can't understand why police would care about an obviously law abiding citizen carring a gun legally. Aren't there other things that are more important? I sure hope nothing like this happens again to you! (or me, or anyone for that matter)
 
Wheelgunner

Wheelgunner

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Joined
Oct 8, 2007
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426
Location
Kingston, Washington, USA
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They told me that while I wasn't breaking the law was it worth spending the weekend in jail and paying $5,000 to a lawyer to get out of the charges. I asked the officer why he would charge me with a crime that he knew I wouldn't be convicted of. He said _he_ wouldn't do it but some officers might.


This to me is the money line. Stating that they would put you in jail and force you to spend $5000 is a clear violation of Art. 18 Sec 242.Translating the above another way:

"I wouldn'tfalsely arrestyou to stop you for exercising your rights because that would seriously cut into my pension and advancement possibilities, plus if you actually prevailed in an article 18 Sec 242 action, I might get MY gun rights taken away and end up working in a gas station. However,you are in danger of some other poor officer arresting you and you then cutting a serious amount of money out of their budget through the actions of a hot shot lawyer. Look buster, just go home and stop bothering us with this Rights crap."


Right after New Years I going to find out who is the best Lawyer out there and put him on retainer. (Cost =$500 / Gain in Peace of Mind = priceless) *


*Found a really good voice recorder, solid memory, 7 hours of recording time with a good mic for $25 bucks. It fits easy in the knife pocket in jeans. Radio Shack
 
J

Jered

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Messages
162
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Whatcom County
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irfner wrote:
Nathan; I am sorry to hear about the problems you encountered. All things considered I think you handled it pretty well.The cops knew theywere breaking the law and youwere not,yet they proceed to intimidate and harass you. The policehave the authority of the badge and when it is misused that can be very intimidating. Recordings will work provided you are not arrested. If you arearrested the police will have your recorder while you are in jail. After an illegal arrest what is a little illegal tape destruction?

I doubt your complaint will go very far but you should file it anyway. If you can spare the costyoushould ask an attorney to file it for you. Or at least send a letter. It will carry considerably more weight than if you do it alone. He could also request the 911 tapes etc. Again it probably won't go anywheres but at least they will know you mean business. That way you can be sure the officers involved will have to explain their actions to some superior somewhere. There is nothing like posturing for a law suite to get the police attention.Puts themon noticeif they continue to harass you it could cost them. Besides that it will make you feel better. Also it wouldn't hurt for the attorney to send a note to the store informing them that open carry is not illegal in this state. Just so they don't create a situation where they get sued as a participant in a false arrest.
Click to expand...
You should check the Public Records Act.

Read this section and the definitions.
 
S

Stuart959

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Dec 11, 2007
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Firstly, I am very sorry to hear that these cops seems to feel above the law. I am planning to buy my first pistol in a couple months and it unnerves me to think if i chose to carry i might run into one of these ignorant jackasses. Shucks if any of us wanted to be harrassed we could carry 12 gauges loaded with rock salt.
 
K

kparker

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Nov 10, 2006
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Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Jered,

You referred to some useful parts of the Public Record Act. However, I don't like to see this law cited without taking time to make a respectful tip of the hat to this section:

The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies that serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may maintain control over the instruments that they have created...
Click to expand...

Now that's the proper attitude toward the relationship between the people and their government, isn't it? Officer 1 definitely needs a refresher course in this matter.
 
C

Citizen

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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
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kparker wrote:
SNIP Jered,

You referred to some useful parts of the Public Record Act. However, I don't like to see this law cited without taking time to make a respectful tip of the hat to this section:

The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies that serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may maintain control over the instruments that they have created...
Click to expand...

Now that's the proper attitude toward the relationship between the people and their government, isn't it?
Click to expand...


+10 :D
 
J

Jered

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Joined
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Messages
162
Location
Whatcom County
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kparker wrote:
Jered,

You referred to some useful parts of the Public Record Act. However, I don't like to see this law cited without taking time to make a respectful tip of the hat to this section:

The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies that serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may maintain control over the instruments that they have created...
Click to expand...

Now that's the proper attitude toward the relationship between the people and their government, isn't it? Officer 1 definitely needs a refresher course in this matter.
Click to expand...
Indubitably.
 
G

G20-IWB24/7

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
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886
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Tacoma, WA, ,
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sv_libertarian wrote:
Maybe a dinner down there would be a good idea...
Click to expand...
Haha! Our favorite, "famous last words." Now where in hell is Hazel Dell? (Hey, I'm a poet and I wasn't even aware of the fact!)
 
amlevin

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
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5,937
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
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Mike wrote:
What about a follow up with the Winco HQ - what the heck is a Winco?
Click to expand...

It is a discount grocery chain that started in Boise, ID.

Read about them here: http://www.wincofoods.com/

Kind of a "No Frills, Bag you own, grocery store that makes you enter through an aisle of discounts, specials, and bargains before you get to the main store.

The average IQ here is about 2 points higher than anyone you might talk to in a Wal-Mart, no higher.
 
P

Phssthpok

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The funny thing is I've shopped OC in the Winco over by the mall several times with nothing more than a curiously raised eyebrow. In fact I did all my Turkey-day shoping OC. (quite crowded)

Hell, I even got in line at the checkout behind a uniform....all he did was smile a 'standard' greeting.
 
R

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
I've shopped at Winco Foods in Federal Way, Kent, and Marysville without an issue.
Click to expand...
I've OC'ed at the WINCO in Marysville several times. Other than the fact that the clerk could not pay attention to what he was doing because he was STAIRING at my 9MM the whole time each time was fairly uneventfull
 
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