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In a local gun store I recently encountered the most ridiculous 9mm vs. .45ACP story I think I’ve ever heard. The salesperson was talking to someone who I guess had never owned a handgun, and was considering doing so. Perhaps they couldn’t decide what caliber would be best, but regardless at some point in the conversation they asked the salesperson about it. I don’t know if the customer was the one that specifically brought up the 9mm vs. .45ACP thing, or if the salesperson simply decided to only talk about those two calibers. The salesperson’s statement was essentially as follows:
The 9mm has about 500 “lbs” more energy than the .45ACP, because it is a supersonic round. The .45ACP has less energy because it is a subsonic round. The .45ACP has around 1000 “lbs” of energy (!) where the 9mm, having 500 "lbs" more, has 1500 “lbs” (!!!). But, the .45ACP still delivers more energy to the target because, since it’s wider and subsonic, it ALWAYS stops inside the target delivering all of its energy. The 9mm on the other hand, being thin and supersonic, ALWAYS over-penetrates the target, delivering far less energy to the target than the .45ACP will. In conclusion: The .45ACP has less energy, and delivers more of it. The 9mm overpenetrates through everything, all the time.
I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Of course we know that in either caliber you will find subsonic and supersonic rounds. In either caliber you will find rounds with under and over-penetration issues. Top of the line .45ACP ammo will in fact usually have slightly more muzzle energy than top of the line 9mm ammo. Both are usually in the 300-500ft-lb range, although some of the highest energy .45ACP rounds may get up near 600ft-lb. Many times even within the same company, muzzle energies and velocities are measured out of 4” barrels for 9mm and 5” barrels for .45ACP rounds though, making the slight differences likely even smaller IMO.
I also encountered another salesperson that swore up and down that this 18.5” H&R 12ga I was looking at could not fire slugs. I don’t know why, but this salesperson kept saying they would damage it, perhaps due to the choke he thought it had? I knew this wasn’t the case, and I ended up purchasing the shotgun eventually. Well, right there in the owner’s manual it said that it could fire slugs. I’ve put many, many foster slugs through it. They shoot wonderfully out of it, and usually it stays loaded with Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 1oz Slugs.
Now, this place claims to have some of the most knowledgeable people in the industry working there. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from people at a pawn shop or something, but this is a gun store and they do make the claim that they're extremely knowledgeable. I do like the place as the people are very nice, and I shop there regularly, but at the same time I can’t stand hearing misinformation like that. Granted I don’t think any of these situations would have resulted in a dangerous misunderstanding, but I still don’t see why they'd claim the salespeople know so much if they aren't even testing their knowledge. Perhaps the criteria that's tested isn't related to things like that? I would hope that if they didn't know the answer to a question they wouldn't even attempt to answer it, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I haven't been going to gun stores for a really long time, and I've only been to the ones around where I live. Have you guys encountered similar misinformation in other stores? Did they claim to be experts as well?
In a local gun store I recently encountered the most ridiculous 9mm vs. .45ACP story I think I’ve ever heard. The salesperson was talking to someone who I guess had never owned a handgun, and was considering doing so. Perhaps they couldn’t decide what caliber would be best, but regardless at some point in the conversation they asked the salesperson about it. I don’t know if the customer was the one that specifically brought up the 9mm vs. .45ACP thing, or if the salesperson simply decided to only talk about those two calibers. The salesperson’s statement was essentially as follows:
The 9mm has about 500 “lbs” more energy than the .45ACP, because it is a supersonic round. The .45ACP has less energy because it is a subsonic round. The .45ACP has around 1000 “lbs” of energy (!) where the 9mm, having 500 "lbs" more, has 1500 “lbs” (!!!). But, the .45ACP still delivers more energy to the target because, since it’s wider and subsonic, it ALWAYS stops inside the target delivering all of its energy. The 9mm on the other hand, being thin and supersonic, ALWAYS over-penetrates the target, delivering far less energy to the target than the .45ACP will. In conclusion: The .45ACP has less energy, and delivers more of it. The 9mm overpenetrates through everything, all the time.
I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Of course we know that in either caliber you will find subsonic and supersonic rounds. In either caliber you will find rounds with under and over-penetration issues. Top of the line .45ACP ammo will in fact usually have slightly more muzzle energy than top of the line 9mm ammo. Both are usually in the 300-500ft-lb range, although some of the highest energy .45ACP rounds may get up near 600ft-lb. Many times even within the same company, muzzle energies and velocities are measured out of 4” barrels for 9mm and 5” barrels for .45ACP rounds though, making the slight differences likely even smaller IMO.
I also encountered another salesperson that swore up and down that this 18.5” H&R 12ga I was looking at could not fire slugs. I don’t know why, but this salesperson kept saying they would damage it, perhaps due to the choke he thought it had? I knew this wasn’t the case, and I ended up purchasing the shotgun eventually. Well, right there in the owner’s manual it said that it could fire slugs. I’ve put many, many foster slugs through it. They shoot wonderfully out of it, and usually it stays loaded with Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 1oz Slugs.
Now, this place claims to have some of the most knowledgeable people in the industry working there. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from people at a pawn shop or something, but this is a gun store and they do make the claim that they're extremely knowledgeable. I do like the place as the people are very nice, and I shop there regularly, but at the same time I can’t stand hearing misinformation like that. Granted I don’t think any of these situations would have resulted in a dangerous misunderstanding, but I still don’t see why they'd claim the salespeople know so much if they aren't even testing their knowledge. Perhaps the criteria that's tested isn't related to things like that? I would hope that if they didn't know the answer to a question they wouldn't even attempt to answer it, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I haven't been going to gun stores for a really long time, and I've only been to the ones around where I live. Have you guys encountered similar misinformation in other stores? Did they claim to be experts as well?