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Port's "rules" are, in fact, "laws".

Mike

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
Mike wrote:
Lonnie Wilson wrote:
It's still a civil rights violation under Article 1 Section 24 and would probably be a 2nd amendment violation (at least after Nordyke is decided.
An incorporation decision by a 9th Cir. panel is not binding on state courts, and federal courts cannot hear state law claims.
Cite please?
It is a fundemental essentially jurisdictional rule that the only court which binds state courts on federal questions is the US Supreme Court. There may be some court opinions mentioning this but obvioulsy no federal court has jurisdiction to entertain an appeal from state court except the US S. Ct. So say the 9th Cir. incorporated the Second Amendment - no state court is bound by that decision.

Similarly, federal courts have no power to here state law claims per se. Pendent jurisdiction in civil claims is allowed if the federal court has jurisdiction to hear the matter on federal grounds under the nucleous of facts; in the Pennhurst case the S. Ct. emphasized that federal courts to not rule directly on state law claims in civil rights cases - and note the difficulty zchet is having in Norfolk, VA case re what state preemption means - fed. judge said not my province to decide that!!
 

deanf

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Quick Response!

Here is her reply:
Mr. Xxxxxx,

Your questions are legal in nature and are being forwarded to the Port of Seattle General Counsel’s office for response.

Any additional questions I receive from anyone regarding this matter will also be forwarded to the POS Legal Department.

Thank you.
Carla L. Macnab
Administrative Assistant
Office of the Chief
Port of Seattle Police Department
206.431.4010

That's in response to this:
Dear Ms. MacNab:

It has come to my attention that the Port of Seattle is illegally prohibiting firearm possession in the non-sterile public areas of SeaTac Airport through SeaTac Airport Rules and Regulations Section 3, #16(a). This rule is a state firearms law preemption violation, and cannot be enforced. RCW 9.41.290 reads:


"The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

The Port of Seattle is a Municipality, according to RCW 53.04.060, ". . . and the port district shall then be and become a municipal corporation of the state of Washington . . .". State preemption applies to all municipalities.

The Ports Rules and Regulations are actually laws, because violations of them are a misdemeanor, according to RCW 53.08.220, "(2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, any violation of the regulations described in subsection (1) of this section is a misdemeanor which shall be redressed in the same manner as other police regulations of the city, town, or county, and it shall be the duty of all law enforcement officers to enforce such regulations accordingly." RCW 53.08.220 exclusively grants authority to the Port Commission to make rules and regulations for the Port's property. The above quoted section codifies those Rules and Regulations as law, because it adds a criminal penalty (misdemeanor) to violations of them. State preemption applies to all laws passed by a municipality.

RCW 53.08.220 also requires that Rules and Regulations passed by resolution ". . . must conform to and be consistent with federal and state law." RCW 9.41.300 prohibits firearms in "The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport . . ." The Port's firearms prohibition clearly violates the RCW 53.08.220 proviso that rules and regulations conform to state law because it prohibits firearms where state law does not.

In summary, the Port's firearm prohibition in non-sterile areas is illegal and cannot and must not be enforced because, (a) the Port of Seattle is a municipality, thus preemption applies, (b) the Port's Rules and Regulations are actually laws, thus preemption applies, and (c) the Port's Rules and Regulations must be consistent with state law. They are not because state law allows firearm possession in the non-sterile areas of the airport.

Numerous state agencies have, in the past several years, changed their rules or regulations to allow the lawful possession of firearms on their properties. They have done this to be in compliance with state preemption. These agencies include Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission (concealed and open carry not prohibited in state parks), Metro transit and numerous other transit agencies, and numerous publicly owned and operated fairgrounds, parks, and other recreation facilities. These agencies all receive their operating authority from the State (just like the Port) and they have all agreed that their rules and regulations are controlled by state preemption.

Ms. MacNab, I realize that you do not have the authority to change any of this, but you were given as the contact person for this issue. It is my hope that the Port's Rules and Regulations can be changed to conform to state law from the inside. Meaning: Port staff (you, the Police Chief, the Port CEO and the Port's legal counsel) will research this issue, realize the error, and recommend a change in the Rules and Regulations to the Port Commission. Of course the other route to change is letters to the Port Commissioners, attending commission meetings and giving public comment, contacting the State Attorney General, etc.

As a constituent of the Port Commissioners, I am very concerned that failure to address this issue will expose the Port (and its employees individually, with no qualified immunity, see 42 USC 1983) to expensive false arrest lawsuits. Such a situation would be a failure of the commissioner's fiduciary responsibility to protect public assets from loss.

Would you please write back to me and let me know how this issue will be resolved? Thank you.

-Dean Xxxxxx
 

jddssc121

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got this back from the Port

[align=left]We appreciate your inquiry about Section 3, General Rule 16.a. that limits the ability of persons to carry firearms at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.[/align] [align=left] [/align][align=left][/align] [align=left]The Port of Seattle adopted this rule to ensure the comfort and safety of all persons visiting the Airport. Unfortunately, large transportation hubs such as the Airport have become a primary target for terrorist activities. The Port believes that this rule helps mitigate against such threats and, by limiting possession of weapons to law enforcement officers and other personnel authorized by the Port, promotes peace of mind among the traveling public.[/align] [align=left][/align] [align=left]We do not believe that this regulation is prohibited by Sections 9.41.290 and 9.41.300 of the Revised Code of Washington. As recognized by the Washington State Supreme Court in Cherry v. Municipality of Metropolitan Seattle, those sections address uniformity in criminal firearm regulations. The Port of Seattle has not, by adoption of General Rule 16.a, criminalized the possession of weapons. Instead, the Port of Seattle has--as proprietor of the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport --elected to limit the possession of weapons on its property. Since the Port of Seattle is acting in a capacity comparable to that of a private party, the preemption clause in Section 9.41.290 of the Revised Code of Washington does not apply. We note that the Washington State Court of Appeals has, in an unreported decision that we attach for your reference, specifically sustained this view.[/align] [align=left]While you note that the Port may adopt regulations that are subject to criminal penalty under Section 53.08.220 of the Revised Code of Washington, that has not occurred here. Enforcement of General Rule 16.a is, under the terms of the Airport's rules and regulations, administrative. Unless General Rule 16.a. were to beadopted as part of the ordinances of the City of SeaTac (the municipality in which the Airport is located), it's violationdoes notconstitute a criminal offense. While violation of the rule may, under certain circumstances, form the basis for the crime ofcriminal trespass, that does not thereby transform the rule into a criminal offense.[/align] [align=left][/align] [align=left]Please note, however, this it is a crime for anyone to possess or have under one's control a weapon in the restricted access areas of the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Those areas are designated in the Airport's security plan and are clearly marked by signs announcing the prohibition.[/align] [align=left][/align] [align=left]Thank you again for your inquiry. We trust that this answers your question.[/align]
 

Bear 45/70

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Their response is: "Regardless of State law we are gonna do as we damned well please and the citizens of this country can piss up a rope."

You are aware they are being sued over this crap and are gonna lose?

I would bet a lawyer wrote this lie.
 

jddssc121

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Their response is: "Regardless of State law we are gonna do as we damned well please and the citizens of this country can piss up a rope."

You are aware they are being sued over this crap and are gonna lose?

I would bet a lawyer wrote this lie.

i'm too pissed to write back yet:banghead:
 

jddssc121

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Their response is: "Regardless of State law we are gonna do as we damned well please and the citizens of this country can piss up a rope."

You are aware they are being sued over this crap and are gonna lose?

I would bet a lawyer wrote this lie.
yes his name is

[align=left]Paul M. Bintinger[/align] [align=left]Senior Port Counsel[/align] [align=left]Port of Seattle[/align]
 

tricityguy

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Curious, what is the next step when idiots like this openly and willfully violate state law and refuse to do anything about it? Do you have to file a lawsuit against the city (in this case, the port), then? Can you seek damages for your time and money wasted in suing them? Can you hold them legally accountable for a willful violation of state law?

Honestly, what power do we, the people, have when self-appointed "authorities" do this?
 

jddssc121

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and if the so called rules are only administrative, and not laws, how does one get trespassed for violating them?

RCW 9A.52.090 (emphasis added)

In any prosecution under RCW 9A.52.070 and 9A.52.080, it is a defense that:

(1) A building involved in an offense under RCW 9A.52.070 was abandoned; or

(2) The premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or

(3) The actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain; or

(4) The actor was attempting to serve legal process which includes any document required or allowed to be served upon persons or property, by any statute, rule, ordinance, regulation, or court order, excluding delivery by the mails of the United States. This defense applies only if the actor did not enter into a private residence or other building not open to the public and the entry onto the premises was reasonable and necessary for service of the legal process.
 

Bear 45/70

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tricityguy wrote:
Curious, what is the next step when idiots like this openly and willfully violate state law and refuse to do anything about it? Do you have to file a lawsuit against the city (in this case, the port), then? Can you seek damages for your time and money wasted in suing them? Can you hold them legally accountable for a willful violation of state law?

Honestly, what power do we, the people, have when self-appointed "authorities" do this?
The answer to your questions is YES! It is being done.
 

jddssc121

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just noticed, in the forward section of their own rules document

The Port of Seattle is governed by five elective commissioners who have adopted the
following rules and regulations with respect to the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
to provide for the safety and proper conduct of persons and property using the said
Airport. The following rules and regulations are to be construed in conformity with all
Federal, State, or local laws
 

Bear 45/70

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jddssc121 wrote:
just noticed, in the forward section of their own rules document

The Port of Seattle is governed by five elective commissioners who have adopted the
following rules and regulations with respect to the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
to provide for the safety and proper conduct of persons and property using the said
Airport. The following rules and regulations are to be construed in conformity with all
Federal, State, or local laws
Yep, in the name of safetythe Port and their elected commissioners, that swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and the law, will violate the hell out of the US Constitution, the Washington State Constitution and WashingtonState law. But it's for safety, how can you be against that?
 

Dave_pro2a

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jddssc121 wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
I would bet a lawyer wrote this lie.
yes his name is


[align=left]Paul M. Bintinger[/align]
[align=left]Senior Port Counsel[/align]
[align=left]Port of Seattle[/align]
Hey, it's the POS Lawyer! :celebrate
 

jddssc121

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
jddssc121 wrote:
just noticed, in the forward section of their own rules document

The Port of Seattle is governed by five elective commissioners who have adopted the
following rules and regulations with respect to the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
to provide for the safety and proper conduct of persons and property using the said
Airport. The following rules and regulations are to be construed in conformity with all
Federal, State, or local laws
Yep, in the name of safetythe Port and their elected commissioners, that swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and the law, will violate the hell out of the US Constitution, the Washington State Constitution and WashingtonState law. But it's for safety, how can you be against that?
i mean't this part "The following rules and regulations are to be construed in conformity with all Federal, State, or local laws"
 
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