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CPL Class this weekend

T

taxwhat

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Jblack44 wrote:
This is from the MSP website...



[align=center]PISTOL SAFETY TRAINING COURSE [/align][font=Arial,Arial]




[align=left]Those required to take the Pistol Safety training course include: [/align]




[align=left]1. All new applicants. [/align]




[align=left]2. Those who had a concealed pistol license (general or restricted) prior to July 1, 2001, and are renewing for the first time under the new statute. [/align]




[align=left]The educational requirements are waived for an applicant who is a retired police officer or a retired law enforcement officer. The county gun board may require a letter from the employer that the applicant retired from his or her employment in good standing as a police officer or law enforcement officer. Attorney General Opinion 7182 defines the terms "retired police officer" or "retired law enforcement officer," to mean "a certified police officer or law enforcement officer who retired in good standing from his or her employment as a police or law enforcement officer and who is receiving a retirement benefit." Additionally, the Act defines the terms "retired police officer" or "law enforcement officer" to mean "an individual who was a certified police officer or certified law enforcement officer as those terms are defined under section 2(k) of the commission on the law enforcement standards act, 1965 203, MCL 28.602, and retired in good standing from his or her employment as a police officer or law enforcement officer." [/align]




[align=left]The training required under this Act must be a program certified by this state or a national or state firearms training organization and provides instruction in at least all of the following: [/align]





[align=left]• The safe storage, use, and handling of a pistol [/align]




[align=left]• Ammunition knowledge and the fundamentals of pistol shooting [/align]




[align=left]• Pistol shooting positions [/align]




[align=left]• Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force [/align]




[align=left]• Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation [/align]




[align=left]• All laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state [/align]




[align=left]• At least 5 hours of instruction, and 3 hours of range time, which requires firing at least 30 rounds of ammunition [/align]




[align=left]The instructor must be certified by this state or a national organization and trained in the use of deadly force. The instructor must provide a signed certificate of completion to the applicant stating that the individual successfully completed the course, and must [/align][suP]




[align=left]*[/font][font=Arial,Arial]Passport Photo standards: Taken alone, sufficiently recent to be a good likeness (normally taken within the last 6 months), with an image size from bottom of chin to top of head (including hair) of between 1 and 1 3/8 inches. Photo must be clear, front view, full face, taken in normal street attire without a hat or dark glasses with a white or off-white background. They must be capable of withstanding a mounting temperature of 225° Fahrenheit (107° Celsius). Snapshots, most vending machine prints, and magazine or full-length photographs are unacceptable. [/align][/suP]




[align=left]RI-012 (1/07) - Instructions [/font][font=Arial,Arial]4 [/align][/font][font=Arial,Arial]




[align=left]contain the printed name and signature of the instructor. The certificate shall contain the statement "This course complies with section 5j of 1927 PA 372." [/align]




[align=left]The following organizations are currently offering Certified Pistol Safety Training courses: [/align]




[align=left]Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards (MCOLES) [/align]

[/font][font=Arial,Arial]




[align=left]http://www.mcoles.org [/font][font=Arial,Arial]or (517) 322-6525 [/align]




[align=left]National Rifle Association (NRA) [/align]

[/font][font=Arial,Arial]




[align=left]http://www.nrahq.org/safety/education [/font][font=Arial,Arial]or (703) 267-1430 [/align]




[align=left]Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) [/align]

[/font][font=Arial,Arial]




[align=left]http://www.mcrgo.org [/font][font=Arial,Arial]or (517) 484-2746 [/align]




[align=left]This list is not an all-inclusive list of certified instructors or facilities. An applicant may wish to contact his or her county gun board to inquire about other certified instructors or sites. [/align]




[align=left]The county gun board may wish to confirm the validity of a certificate of completion by confirming the instructor’s certification with the organization that provided certification. [/align]




[align=left]A person who either, grants a certificate of completion to an individual knowing the individual did not satisfactorily complete the course, or presents a certificate of completion to a gun board knowing the individual did not satisfactorily complete the course, is guilty of a felony punishable by 4 years in prison and/or a $2,500 fine. [/align][/font]




[align=center][/align]
[font=Arial,Arial][/font]
Click to expand...
We are now on the path of knowledge .
 
Taurus850CIA

Taurus850CIA

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Jblack44, I give you props. This may be the first time I've seen taxwhat placated!! Nice work!:celebrate



(just pokin' atcha, taxwhat)
 
Jblack44

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taxwhat wrote:
Jblack44 wrote:
This is from the MSP website...





[align=center]PISTOL SAFETY TRAINING COURSE [font=Arial,Arial]

[/align]

[align=left]The training required under this Act must be a program certified by this state or a national or state firearms training organization and provides instruction in at least all of the following: [/align]

[align=left]The instructor was certified by the NRA


[/align]

[align=left]• The safe storage, use, and handling of a pistol [/align]

[align=left]This was covered in the class I took

[/align]

[align=left]• Ammunition knowledge and the fundamentals of pistol shooting [/align]

[align=left]Also covered--different styles of bullets, talked about handloads, basic use of pistols and how to carry weapon while loaded

[/align]

[align=left]• Pistol shooting positions [/align]

[align=left]We were shown isoscelese and weaver stance along with weak side strong side shooting. And we covered using cover

[/align]

[align=left]• Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force [/align]

[align=left]at nausium--be prepared to be sued

[/align]

[align=left]• Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation [/align]

[align=left]only use deadly force as last resort. Always look for a way out of the situation
[/align]

[align=left]• All laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state [/align]

[align=left]Yep we covered GFZ's and private property, etc.

[/align]

[align=left]• At least 5 hours of instruction, and 3 hours of range time, which requires firing at least 30 rounds of ammunition [/align]

[align=left]Class was 8 hours total, 5 in the classand we shot 100 rounds[/align]



[align=left]The instructor must be certified by this state or a national organization and trained in the use of deadly force. The instructor must provide a signed certificate of completion to the applicant stating that the individual successfully completed the course, and must [/font][font=Arial,Arial]contain the printed name and signature of the instructor. The certificate shall contain the statement "This course complies with section 5j of 1927 PA 372." [/font][/align]

[align=left][font=Arial,Arial]Got one of these at the end[/font][/align]
Click to expand...
We are now on the path of knowledge .
Click to expand...
Gonig over what is required.....I'm confident that the requirements are met in the class I took.
 
T

taxwhat

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imported post

Jblack44 wrote:
taxwhat wrote:
Jblack44 wrote:
This is from the MSP website...







[align=center]PISTOL SAFETY TRAINING COURSE [font=Arial,Arial]

[/align]



[align=left]The training required under this Act must be a program certified by this state or a national or state firearms training organization and provides instruction in at least all of the following: [/align]



[align=left]The instructor was certified by the NRA


[/align]



[align=left]• The safe storage, use, and handling of a pistol [/align]



[align=left]This was covered in the class I took

[/align]



[align=left]• Ammunition knowledge and the fundamentals of pistol shooting [/align]



[align=left]Also covered--different styles of bullets, talked about handloads, basic use of pistols and how to carry weapon while loaded

[/align]



[align=left]• Pistol shooting positions [/align]



[align=left]We were shown isoscelese and weaver stance along with weak side strong side shooting. And we covered using cover

[/align]



[align=left]• Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force [/align]



[align=left]at nausium--be prepared to be sued

[/align]



[align=left]• Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation [/align]



[align=left]only use deadly force as last resort. Always look for a way out of the situation
[/align]



[align=left]• All laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state [/align]



[align=left]Yep we covered GFZ's and private property, etc.

[/align]



[align=left]• At least 5 hours of instruction, and 3 hours of range time, which requires firing at least 30 rounds of ammunition [/align]



[align=left]Class was 8 hours total, 5 in the classand we shot 100 rounds[/align]





[align=left]The instructor must be certified by this state or a national organization and trained in the use of deadly force. The instructor must provide a signed certificate of completion to the applicant stating that the individual successfully completed the course, and must [/font][font=Arial,Arial]contain the printed name and signature of the instructor. The certificate shall contain the statement "This course complies with section 5j of 1927 PA 372." [/font][/align]



[align=left][font=Arial,Arial]Got one of these at the end[/font][/align]
Click to expand...
We are now on the path of knowledge .
Click to expand...
Gonig over what is required.....I'm confident that the requirements are met in the class I took.
Click to expand...
Well grasshopper if you are only using the above as guide you lose ! You need to know what is required by certifying agency .This a true Double edged sword [ catch 22].!!:exclaim:
 
Jblack44

Jblack44

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OK now I'm confused because it was a class that the curriculum was certified by the NRA, which is the requirement. All the calss material was from the NRA.
 
Venator

Venator

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Jblack44 wrote:
OK now I'm confused because it was a class that the curriculum was certified by the NRA, which is the requirement. All the calss material was from the NRA.
Click to expand...
If it really did meet the requirments of the NRA AND the state you should be ok.
 
T

taxwhat

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Jblack44 wrote:
OK now I'm confused because it was a class that the curriculum was certified by the NRA, which is the requirement. All the calss material was from the NRA.
Click to expand...
All I am Asking is "Was It ?" SAYS Who ? and PLEASE show me/us in positive form please .
 
T

taxwhat

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Messages
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Venator wrote:
Jblack44 wrote:
OK now I'm confused because it was a class that the curriculum was certified by the NRA, which is the requirement. All the calss material was from the NRA.
Click to expand...
If it really did meet the requirments of the NRA AND the state you should be ok.
Click to expand...
Can you live with this then OK ?,,,,,,,,, If it really did meet the requirments of the NRA AND the state you should be ok.
 
Jblack44

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I will place a phone call and ask these questions.

Is the cirriculum certified by the state and NRA?

Is the material provided by the class meet the requirements of the state and NRA?

How do you verify this??? Is there something in writing??
 
Venator

Venator

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Here is a link from the NRA on instructors. http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp?Location=USAMI&Type=

Taxwhat can you post the link you mentioned on the Michigan CPL requirments in regards to the NRA?

From the NRA website http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp#pistol


What will you learn in an NRA basic course?

  • The NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for owning and operating a pistol safely. This course is at least 10-hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. Students learn NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; pistol parts and operation; ammunition; shooting fundamentals; range rules; shooting from the bench rest position, two handed and one handed standing positions; cleaning the pistol; and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the Basics of Pistol Shooting handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, take a Basics of Pistol Shooting Student Examination, course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (revised 9-05).

  • The NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation — Firearm Instruction, Responsibility, and Safety Training — is the NRA’s response to the American public’s need for a firearm orientation program for new purchasers. NRA FIRST Steps Pistol is designed to provide a hands-on introduction to the safe handling and proper orientation to one specific pistol action type for classes of four or fewer students. This course is at least three hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot a specific pistol action type. Students will learn the NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; the particular pistol model parts and operation; ammunition; shooting fundamentals; cleaning the pistol; and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the Basics of Pistol Shooting handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, FIRST Steps Course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (revised 3-08).

  • The NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude essential to the safe and efficient use of a handgun for protection of self and family, and to provide information on the law-abiding individual’s right to self-defense. This is an eight-hour course. Students should expect to shoot approximately 100 rounds of ammunition. Students will learn basic defensive shooting skills, strategies for home safety and responding to a violent confrontation, firearms and the law, how to choose a handgun for self-defense, and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection In The Home handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (print 10-06).
 
T

taxwhat

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Jblack44 wrote:
I will place a phone call and ask these questions.

Is the cirriculum certified by the state and NRA?

Is the material provided by the class meet the requirements of the state and NRA?

How do you verify this??? Is there something in writing??
Click to expand...
Evey CPL holder Should Too ! The Force is with You .
 
T

taxwhat

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Venator wrote:
Here is a link from the NRA on instructors. http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp?Location=USAMI&Type=

Taxwhat can you post the link you mentioned on the Michigan CPL requirments in regards to the NRA?

From the NRA website http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp#pistol


What will you learn in an NRA basic course?

  • The NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for owning and operating a pistol safely. This course is at least 10-hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. Students learn NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; pistol parts and operation; ammunition; shooting fundamentals; range rules; shooting from the bench rest position, two handed and one handed standing positions; cleaning the pistol; and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the Basics of Pistol Shooting handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, take a Basics of Pistol Shooting Student Examination, course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (revised 9-05).

  • The NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation — Firearm Instruction, Responsibility, and Safety Training — is the NRA’s response to the American public’s need for a firearm orientation program for new purchasers. NRA FIRST Steps Pistol is designed to provide a hands-on introduction to the safe handling and proper orientation to one specific pistol action type for classes of four or fewer students. This course is at least three hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot a specific pistol action type. Students will learn the NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; the particular pistol model parts and operation; ammunition; shooting fundamentals; cleaning the pistol; and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the Basics of Pistol Shooting handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, FIRST Steps Course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (revised 3-08).

  • The NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude essential to the safe and efficient use of a handgun for protection of self and family, and to provide information on the law-abiding individual’s right to self-defense. This is an eight-hour course. Students should expect to shoot approximately 100 rounds of ammunition. Students will learn basic defensive shooting skills, strategies for home safety and responding to a violent confrontation, firearms and the law, how to choose a handgun for self-defense, and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection In The Home handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (print 10-06).
Click to expand...
Would you please give the numbers of HOURS [ 50 minute] needed for Personal Protection In The Home Course ? Total .
 
Venator

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Sec 5b (7)(c) The applicant has knowledge and has had training in the safe use and handling of a pistol by the successful completion of a pistol safety training course or class that meets the requirements of section 5j, and that is available to the general public and presented by a law enforcement agency, junior or community college, college, or public or private institution or organization or firearms training school.

This means that if any one of these teach it you are okay. If it's an NRA instructor he must follow the NRA course as well as the state requirements.

This is what the state wants:

Sec. 5j. (1) A pistol training or safety program described in section 5b(7)(c) meets the requirements for knowledge or training in the safe use and handling of a pistol only if the program consists of 8 hours of instruction and all of the following conditions are met:

(a) The program is certified by this state or a national or state firearms training organization and provides 5 hours

of instruction in, but is not limited to providing instruction in, all of the following:

(i) The safe storage, use, and handling of a pistol including, but not limited to, safe storage, use, and handling to protect child safety.

(ii) Ammunition knowledge, and the fundamentals of pistol shooting.

(iii) Pistol shooting positions.

(iv) Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force. This portion shall be taught by an attorney or an individual trained in the use of deadly force.

(v) Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation.

(vi) All laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state.

(b) The program provides at least 3 hours of instruction on a firing range and requires firing at least 30 rounds of ammunition.

(c) The program provides a certificate of completion that states the program complies with the requirements of this section and that the individual successfully completed the course, and that is signed by the course instructor.

(d) The instructor of the course is certified by this state or a national organization to teach the 8-hour pistol safety training course described in this section.

 
Jblack44

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Taxwhat...That is some interesting news. I did call the place of business where I took the course. They verified that they cover everything that is required and hold proper certification (documents-certificates) stating so. BUT is that enough? Will something like this happen here? I think class audits may become very popular soon. I'm still 2-3 months out from receiving my CPL.
 
T

taxwhat

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Jblack44 wrote:
Taxwhat...That is some interesting news. I did call the place of business where I took the course. They verified that they cover everything that is required and hold proper certification (documents-certificates) stating so. BUT is that enough? Will something like this happen here? I think class audits may become very popular soon. I'm still 2-3 months out from receiving my CPL.
Click to expand...
If I Sold Dope would it be Good stuff ? If I sold a house would I tell you about sewer back up ? Who Do You Ask ? What are the Law makers Doing ? and Why ?
 
C

custom.45acp

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Hey Taxwhat,



(I am not being sarcastic; there are things that need to be change.)



Maybe you can write a “must read column (or post it) for all those interested in obtaining their CPL” prior to them taking their unqualified class so they don’t get tangled in the woven web. This, of course, would have a detailed set of questions they can ask the instructor and that would keep law-abiding citizens from getting trapped by those nasty people not doing their jobs correctly.



Maybe, just maybe, the law should read with a little leniency. Just maybe, one instructor CAN teach 4 individuals with prior firearms experience in 5 hours total time. Maybe, (a state regulated) proficiency test prior to the class for the attendees (in the classroom, of course, don’t want cheaters to win at this too) and then the time can be attributed to the one’s knowledge. To me, and this is only my opinion, a competency should be required! Some people cannot spend less than 30 days on this topic and still have the same knowledge as some that have taken an 8-HOUR MANDATED CLASS. Time means nothing, nothing at all – it’s the knowledge and understanding of the information provided to them that is the absolute most important part.



I have friend that have attended classes that have allowed them to use a Ruger Mark type pistol for their choice of weapon for qualification, is this right? Heck NO! Both carry revolvers, one a .38 and the other .357 (with magnum loaded.)



Another important factor, NO ONE CARRIES GUN IN HAND! Part of the course should entail, drawing from a holster, concealed or open, but most definitely from a holster. This is one factor of the class that I took that scared the crap out of me. I’ve shot for many years prior to the class but have never drawn a gun from a holster. I was afraid of shooting my foot off, but with many (more than 3) hours of practice I can even do it on the run.



Let’s not worry about the minuscule things such as time limits but the actual course descriptions and literature provided to the (soon-to-be) newly trained CPL holders. I would be more afraid of the individual standing next during a robbery watching him get blown away because he had never once tried to un-holster his weapon before the fatal instant.



If we could change the outline of a CPL course, what would it be? (Write your questions in this post, please.)


Custom.45acp
 
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