Had to kick out a damn OCer today

no carry permit ? · Jun 2, 2009

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BB62 wrote:

no carry permit ? wrote:

...We must remember that the Right to Keep & Bare Arms is not a right to violate private property rights...

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I suppose you mean "keep and bear" arms, right?

Good catch on the typo, but if someone shaves their arms that's their personal business,

Guaranteed by the Constitutional Right to Privacy.

bad_ace · Jun 2, 2009

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smoking357 wrote:

American Rattlesnake wrote:

smoking357 wrote:

TylerEMT wrote:

Its not so much Sears as it is the mall we're located in. Westcor has the policy and could fine a store for going against it. Either we deal with it or we call mall security to come deal with it. I don't want to deal with mall security for something stupid that I can take care of.

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Say nothing, and don't rat on a fellow American for being one.

People call this a "free country," yet I can't find anywhere that I'm free.

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He already said that he ignored a couple of calls from associates. His job is to uphold the property rights of his employer.

TylerEMT deserves no criticism. Perhaps he could have approached the shopper in a way that would have assured a better outcome, but the guy was a jerk, no two ways about it. TylerEMT was representing his employer's policy to the customer...if the customer does not like that, he doesn't have to shop there.

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Carrying is a fundamental right, for which discrimination is no more tolerated than being a Christian or homosexual.

Would he throw out a person wearing a crucifix? Would he dare throw out an openly homosexual couple?

smoking357, Business's reserve the right to refuse business to anyone. If I own a restaurant and decide that people with pink hats are to be escorted off the premises and told to never return here while donning such head gear, I'd be well within my rights. Additionally I could throw a person out and give no reason, it's my property.

coreyb78 · Jun 2, 2009

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I as well as many other people understand that corporations have the right to refuse anyone with in some limits. I understand that malls such as the Foothills Mall in Tucson (along with many other malls in AZ) have posted on the entry doors no guns no knives no so-on so-forth. This is that malls right to post that and therefor remove those that disobey that rule. I however hate that rule. I follow it becauseI am a law abiding citizen and still hate that I have todisarm just to enter those doors. What really sucks is when those that dint abide by the laws, IE thugs, criminal, and the such, do carry their (illegally obtained) gun into a place such as a mall then use that gun. I am left there to fend for my self with no protection. So who is to say that in a situation such as that, (similar to what happened at the sears in the park mall not to long ago)a person who is disarmed do to no gun stickers, can he/she take legal actionagainst the mall for infringing on his/her ability to protect oneself?

ixtow · Jun 2, 2009

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PT111 wrote:

crisisweasel wrote:

ixtow wrote:

1st Amendment?
He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I have to agree with another poster... I couldn't accept a job where my employer disrespected it's customers' rights after inviting them onto the property to take their money...

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I have yet to have a single job in which my employer was ethical. The degrees of unethical behavior vary but I haven't had a job yet where I haven't been put into a situation wherein I had to swallow hard and do something I didn't want to do.

That said, all the stuff about corporations may well be true, but the idea that people can just walk away from jobs that feed one's family and pay one's rent in the middle of a horrible recession is just unrealistic. It's easy to tell someone else to do that.

If indeed anyone here knows of any ethical employers in the Tucson area with job openings (IT), in all seriousness, please let me know, because right about now I've about had it with my present job.

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Wow, I have never had a job where ethics was questionable. One supervisors used to tell us that he would never ask us to do anything that was illegal, immoral or unethical and he did not. I am not sure what companies that you have worked for or what you consider unethical but I have never found it to be a problem. However I do know of some cases where it has been, but did not involve me.

I've never had a reputable employer.

But that doesn't change his Right to limit access to his property. Or my Right to tell him he is a dick.

HankT · Jun 4, 2009

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American Rattlesnake wrote:

Can anyone provide citations specifically regarding the legal rights of corporations?

Santa Clara County v. Southern PacificRR, 118 US 394 (1886)

Actually, a case based on taxation.

But SCOTUS deliberationsincluded concept that:

"Corporations are persons within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States."

There is some controversy about whether this case is a proper precedent for subsequent court decisions which followed the cited principle.

no carry permit ? · Jun 4, 2009

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The idea that you can attempt to ignore the rights of private property owners just because they are corporations is a pretty pathetic argument.I see many within this movement as a group of selfish thugs looking for any possible way to violate private property rights. Eventually we will loose the right to open carry because of the total lack of respecta few show the community. Ionce refused to do business with anyone banning open carry and watched a fewboycott lists regularly, now I just ignore the list and shop wherever I want. I totally understand why some businesses ban open carry. Open carry attracts more than a few non- thinking bullies with a chip on their shoulder, constantly seeking confrontation. You read some of the accounts posted here and it is obvious why some of you guys are a magnet for trouble.

GWbiker · Jun 4, 2009

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no carry permit ? wrote:

The idea that you can attempt to ignore the rights of private property owners just because they are corporations is a pretty pathetic argument.I see many within this movement as a group of selfish thugs looking for any possible way to violate private property rights. Eventually we will loose the right to open carry because of the total lack of respecta few show the community. Ionce refused to do business with anyone banning open carry and watched a fewboycott lists regularly, now I just ignore the list and shop wherever I want. I totally understand why some businesses ban open carry. Open carry attracts more than a few non- thinking bullies with a chip on their shoulder, constantly seeking confrontation. You read some of the accounts posted here and it is obvious why some of you guys are a magnet for trouble.

<sigh> "No carry permit" from North Carolina/Virginia/Kentucky Trolls by to inform Arizona site members that we're selfish thugs who OC as a magnet for trouble.:uhoh:

no carry permit ? · Jun 4, 2009

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People post in every section, not just their State including you. Yep I see many on here as ignorant thugs that seek out confrontation while armed. You read their accounts on here and it is so obvious that they live for these issues. I own businesses in North Carolina & Virginia not Kentucky, not sure where you came up with Kentucky.

There does seem to be an abundance of "free men" in Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma. Most are criminals involved in fraudulent activities and attempting to justify their crimes. The group that was counterfeiting U.S. Currency is a perfect example. They aren't "free men" anymore, they are incarcerated in Federal Prison where all "Free men" types belong.

GWbiker · Jun 4, 2009

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no carry permit ? wrote:

People post in every section, not just their State including you. Yep I see many on here as ignorant thugs that seek out confrontation while armed. You read their accounts on here and it is so obvious that they live for these issues. I own businesses in North Carolina & Virginia not Kentucky, not sure where you came up with Kentucky.

There does seem to be an abundance of "free men" in Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma. Most are criminals involved in fraudulent activities and attempting to justify their crimes. The group that was counterfeiting U.S. Currency is a perfect example. They aren't "free men" anymore, they are incarcerated in Federal Prison where all "Free men" types belong.

In case you've forgotten, *YOU* are posting on OpenCarry.org. If you have a problem with OC in southwestern states, then I suggest you confine your keyboard baiting to NC and Virginia.

OR, try the Brady Campaign against violence Facebook page. Your anti OC gun drivel will be most greatly welcomed there.

no carry permit ? · Jun 4, 2009

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GWbiker wrote:

no carry permit ? wrote:

People post in every section, not just their State including you. Yep I see many on here as ignorant thugs that seek out confrontation while armed. You read their accounts on here and it is so obvious that they live for these issues. I own businesses in North Carolina & Virginia not Kentucky, not sure where you came up with Kentucky.

There does seem to be an abundance of "free men" in Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma. Most are criminals involved in fraudulent activities and attempting to justify their crimes. The group that was counterfeiting U.S. Currency is a perfect example. They aren't "free men" anymore, they are incarcerated in Federal Prison where all "Free men" types belong.

Click to expand...

In case you've forgotten, *YOU* are posting on OpenCarry.org. If you have a problem with OC in southwestern states, then I suggest you confine your keyboard baiting to NC and Virginia.

OR, try the Brady Campaign against violence Facebook page. Your anti OC gun drivel will be most greatly welcomed there.

You are a typical open carry.org loony , anyone that doesn't agree with some of he illogical, counter productive actions of a few wackadoos that open carry are automatically labeled a TROLL, anti-gunner, or someone thathas a problem with open carry.

Get a clue idiot, not everyone here agrees with the extremists that will eventually get open carry banned. Some States now require a carry permit to open carry because of the problem children.

I open carry daily (don't even have a concealed carry permit) and have no problem with open carry. It's the "free men" types that believe their rights trump everyone else's that I have a problem with. I have witnessed countless situations of horrible behavior by these types that hurt the cause of open carry. If guys like you don't start thinking a bit morewe will see " legislationthinking for all of us" and a lot more stores/ restaurants posting.

HankT · Jun 4, 2009

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GWbiker wrote:

In case you've forgotten, *YOU* are posting on OpenCarry.org. If you have a problem with OC in southwestern states, then I suggest you confine your keyboard baiting to NC and Virginia.

Wait a minute. That's a non sequitur. If he has a problem with OC in southwestern states, then it would follow that he would post his opinion in threads about carry in southwestern states. He's not doing anything wrong. If you don't like his points, rebut or refute them. This is a discussion forum. Discuss.

GWbiker wrote:

OR, try the Brady Campaign against violence Facebook page. Your anti OC gun drivel will be most greatly welcomed there.

Again, you're missing the point of a discussion forum. His statements and points are welcome here. Check out the forum rules. This is a discussion forum about open carry, firearms and gun rights. Are you new here, GWbiker?

Crossfire Jedi · Jun 4, 2009

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We all like coming to this site to talk about our OC'n experiences, but there is always someone that has to trash talk and ruin the experience. Many times it is a member fromout of state.

That being said, anyone from Arizona that would like to avoid this type of communication is welcome at www.arizonadefensegroup.com. We don't allow trolls or abuse of members as you see here. GWbiker as well as many other members from this site moderate the site to keep it a fun and excellent place to educate yourself and others on Arizona 2A, carry & open carry. When you got the website click on "our forums" on the right hand side.

Tomahawk · Jun 4, 2009

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I don't see no carry permit? as being a troll. He's just stating his opinion, and some of you don't like it. So you want to retreat into your private clubhouse website, where you can all reinforce each other's opinions and ban anyone who disagrees, like a bunch of little boys in a treehouse with "no girls" painted on the side.

This is a discussion board, and ncp? has as much of a priviledge to post his opinion here as you. I personally disagree with his characterization of "free men" all being criminals and wackos, but his point about people seeking confrontation with business owners and operators is a valid one.

To ncp?: Can you please provide cites for your assertion that open carry has resulted in some states passing permit laws for OC? This is the first I've heard of that.

HankT · Jun 4, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

I don't see no carry permit? as being a troll. He's just stating his opinion, and some of you don't like it. So you want to retreat into your private clubhouse website, where you can all reinforce each other's opinions and ban anyone who disagrees, like a bunch of little boys in a treehouse with "no girls" painted on the side.

This is a discussion board, and ncp? has as much of a priviledge to post his opinion here as you. I personally disagree with his characterization of "free men" all being criminals and wackos, but his point about people seeking confrontation with business owners and operators is a valid one.

+1

Crossfire Jedi wrote:

GWbiker as well as many other members from this site moderate the site to keep it a fun and excellent place to educate yourself and others on Arizona 2A, carry & open carry.

GWbiker seems to think that his moderator button works here on OCDO. He's trying to make up rules as he goes along, as he sees fit, based on what he dislikes. That's a sign of bureaucrats and persons weak in the area of communication. Such persons always move toward censorship...justifying it with all sorts of instant rules and epithets.

Citizen · Jun 4, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

SNIP This is a discussion board, and ncp? has as much of a priviledge to post his opinion here as you.

Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said he preferred the disorder attendingliberty to the order attendingtyrrany?

Crossfire Jedi · Jun 4, 2009

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We don't ban anyone in our "private clubhouse" for having a difference of opinion.

Let's be clear that we are talking about being respectful to others.

HankT -2 : I guess you missed that point.

ixtow · Jun 4, 2009

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no carry permit ? wrote:

The idea that you can attempt to ignore the rights of private property owners...

Hello Mr. Straw Man, how are you today? Oh really? Why don't you play hide and go **** yourself!

[that is directed at his pet straw man, not him....]

GWbiker · Jun 4, 2009

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no carry permit ? wrote:

get a clue idiot, not everyone here agrees with the extremists that will eventually get open carry banned. Some States now require a carry permit to open carry because of the problem children.

I open carry daily (don't even have a concealed carry permit) and have no problem with open carry. It's the "free men" types that believe their rights trump everyone else's that I have a problem with. I have witnessed countless situations of horrible behavior by these types that hurt the cause of open carry. If guys like you don't start thinking a bit morewe will see " legislationthinking for all of us" and a lot more stores/ restaurants posting.

Jezzz, are you STILL HERE???

ONE individual in Flagstaff, probably a tourist from NC, who OC a handgun and was asked to leave a business, got an attitude and you come here to label us in Arizona as "Thugs, Free Men", whatever the hell that means. Just who in the hell are YOU to come here and verbally attack us?

You OC in North Carolina....good, I really don't care if you CC a handgun up your a$$.

I've OC/CC for the past 40 years in Pennsylvania, Florida and a few states surrounding Arizona without any bull$hit and I don't need a little pi$$ ant like you lecturing me.

Now please go away before I really get pi$$ed off and send a group of Mexican illegals up to your home to remodel your lawn and clean your pool --

And, no I don't need Hank-T from Joisey to translate any further messages.

smoking357 · Jun 5, 2009

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bad_ace wrote:

smoking357, Business's reserve the right to refuse business to anyone.

They can't "reserve" this right, as they don't have this right.

smoking357 · Jun 5, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

He's just stating his opinion, and some of you don't like it. So you want to retreat into your private clubhouse website, where you can all reinforce each other's opinions and ban anyone who disagrees, like a bunch of little boys in a treehouse with "no girls" painted on the side.

This is the best attack I've yet seen on the tendency of these private boards to stifle the free exchange of ideas.

Americans really pay lip service to free speech. When it comes time to act in their private lives as they'd have the government act, they become hypocrites and hide behind "it's private."

Had to kick out a damn OCer today

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