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Pastor Killed in Drug Investigation

HankT

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smoking357 wrote:
WheelGun wrote:
No one has to talk to the police. The pastor was not under arrest. He was not a suspect. A clergyman does not have to talkaboutany counseling he has done, unless the suspect is dangerous.

WHAT THE F#&* IS GOING ON WITH OUR POLICE ?!!??!!??!!??
It's time, people.

Know the three rules:

1. Police are an army whose enemy is the People.

2. Police are the greatest enemy America has ever faced.

3. America would be better off without the police.

When we see a car pulled over, we need to realize that there is a citizen at risk. We need to start defending each other.

It's time we all remembered what open carry is all about, and it ain't protection against burglars.

It's time.

Uhm, so we should just go and walk up OCing to the officers and like Danbus did in Suffolk, say, "What's going on" to them?

That, among other things, risks conviction just like happened to him...
 

CoonDog

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Give me a break. Wanted for questioning does not demonstrate cause for use of deadly force. Sorry, but they have to play be the rules and follow up with him later. It's not like he's a fugitive on the run. They can find him at home or at church any day of the week.
 

KBCraig

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CoonDog wrote:
Give me a break. Wanted for questioning does not demonstrate cause for use of deadly force. Sorry, but they have to play be the rules and follow up with him later. It's not like he's a fugitive on the run. They can find him at home or at church any day of the week.
Not any more. Now they can find him at the cemetery.
 

Nutczak

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You know something guys, I agree with .357 on 2 of his 3 rules, The police are dangerous!

If I see someone pulled over by police, I usually stop and observe. Then I usually get a face full of screaming ignorant cop when I do this too. I have seen a friends son stopped by the police once so I stopped to ask if he was ok, I was threatened with arrest, gun drawn but kept at low-ready the whole trying to intimidate me game that he lost.

The reason I stopped was becuase the last time this kid got stopped the cops bullied him into an unwarranted search and kept him on-site for nearly an hour and threatened him with arrest on at least 4 or 5 different charges. I stopped to make sure the kid wasn't mistreated and the police kept control of their tempers. Holding a camera with video capabilities sure changes attitudes real quick. I do not feel we would be safer without a police force, but we need to gain some power back from them and make them liable for their actions. I have seen plenty of shooting videos where cops will run into a car on puprose and call it vehicular assault just to shoot the guy or get more charges on them.
 

HankT

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Nutczak wrote:
You know something guys, I agree with .357 on 2 of his 3 rules, The police are dangerous!

If I see someone pulled over by police, I usually stop and observe. Then I usually get a face full of screaming ignorant cop when I do this too. I have seen a friends son stopped by the police once so I stopped to ask if he was ok, I was threatened with arrest, gun drawn but kept at low-ready the whole trying to intimidate me game that he lost.

The reason I stopped was becuase the last time this kid got stopped the cops bullied him into an unwarranted search and kept him on-site for nearly an hour and threatened him with arrest on at least 4 or 5 different charges. I stopped to make sure the kid wasn't mistreated and the police kept control of their tempers. Holding a camera with video capabilities sure changes attitudes real quick. I do not feel we would be safer without a police force, but we need to gain some power back from them and make them liable for their actions. I have seen plenty of shooting videos where cops will run into a car on puprose and call it vehicular assault just to shoot the guy or get more charges on them.
Were you OCing or CCing when you stopped for the friend's son interaction with the cop?
 

Nutczak

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HankT wrote:
Nutczak wrote:
You know something guys, I agree with .357 on 2 of his 3 rules, The police are dangerous!

If I see someone pulled over by police, I usually stop and observe. Then I usually get a face full of screaming ignorant cop when I do this too. I have seen a friends son stopped by the police once so I stopped to ask if he was ok, I was threatened with arrest, gun drawn but kept at low-ready the whole trying to intimidate me game that he lost.

The reason I stopped was becuase the last time this kid got stopped the cops bullied him into an unwarranted search and kept him on-site for nearly an hour and threatened him with arrest on at least 4 or 5 different charges. I stopped to make sure the kid wasn't mistreated and the police kept control of their tempers. Holding a camera with video capabilities sure changes attitudes real quick. I do not feel we would be safer without a police force, but we need to gain some power back from them and make them liable for their actions. I have seen plenty of shooting videos where cops will run into a car on puprose and call it vehicular assault just to shoot the guy or get more charges on them.
Were you OCing or CCing when you stopped for the friend's son interaction with the cop?
Neither becuase in WI,any firearm in a vehicle needs to be fully encased and unloaded. I was driving a business vehicle clearly marked with the business advertising.
 

HankT

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Nutczak wrote:
HankT wrote:
Nutczak wrote:
You know something guys, I agree with .357 on 2 of his 3 rules, The police are dangerous!

If I see someone pulled over by police, I usually stop and observe. Then I usually get a face full of screaming ignorant cop when I do this too. I have seen a friends son stopped by the police once so I stopped to ask if he was ok, I was threatened with arrest, gun drawn but kept at low-ready the whole trying to intimidate me game that he lost.

The reason I stopped was becuase the last time this kid got stopped the cops bullied him into an unwarranted search and kept him on-site for nearly an hour and threatened him with arrest on at least 4 or 5 different charges. I stopped to make sure the kid wasn't mistreated and the police kept control of their tempers. Holding a camera with video capabilities sure changes attitudes real quick. I do not feel we would be safer without a police force, but we need to gain some power back from them and make them liable for their actions. I have seen plenty of shooting videos where cops will run into a car on puprose and call it vehicular assault just to shoot the guy or get more charges on them.
Were you OCing or CCing when you stopped for the friend's son interaction with the cop?
Neither becuase in WI,any firearm in a vehicle needs to be fully encased and unloaded. I was driving a business vehicle clearly marked with the business advertising.

So, the cop drew his pistol solely for you? That seems extreme behavior on the cop's part.

Did you have a camera running?
 

PrayingForWar

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KBCraig wrote:
PrayingForWar wrote:
Even if the pastor (who just looks like a kid to me) didn't know there was someone behind his car, he would have been liable for their injury or death in any circumstance. The fact that there were obviously police around telling him to stop seems to me to mean the "pastor" f^cked up, plain and simple.
"The fact"? You may not have watched the surveillance video. I suggest you do.
Admittedly, my connection is to slow to have seen it. I'm only working with the text of the post. So I took for a "fact" what I had read and commented with that. Unfotunately cops f^ck up, THAT'S WHAT REAL PEOPLE DO. Then you have bed wetting liberals who ARE JUST NEVER WRONG, and can smugly condemn an entire group completely unable to consider it's just as reprehensible a bigotry as anything else. I'm sure SMOKING357 sleeps well after consuming all the dope it must take to become as much of an imbecile as he is and still adhere to his delusions that he's any better than a backroad trailerpark inbred racist.
 

PrayingForWar

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Nutczak wrote:
You know something guys, I agree with .357 on 2 of his 3 rules, The police are dangerous!

If I see someone pulled over by police, I usually stop and observe. Then I usually get a face full of screaming ignorant cop when I do this too. I have seen a friends son stopped by the police once so I stopped to ask if he was ok, I was threatened with arrest, gun drawn but kept at low-ready the whole trying to intimidate me game that he lost.

The reason I stopped was becuase the last time this kid got stopped the cops bullied him into an unwarranted search and kept him on-site for nearly an hour and threatened him with arrest on at least 4 or 5 different charges. I stopped to make sure the kid wasn't mistreated and the police kept control of their tempers. Holding a camera with video capabilities sure changes attitudes real quick. I do not feel we would be safer without a police force, but we need to gain some power back from them and make them liable for their actions. I have seen plenty of shooting videos where cops will run into a car on puprose and call it vehicular assault just to shoot the guy or get more charges on them.
I agree in part, but lets remeber, people are not infalible, and cops are indeed people who do a job that no one likes. That said, if more people were as aware of the law as they should be, they could tell the cop "go f^ck yourself, take me to jail, I'm within my rights" and get a cash settlement in the end. Instead, because it's hard to actually be aware of the law let alone in compliance, people give up information and screw themselves. IT'S YOUR JOB TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND BE AWARE OF YOUR RIGHTS, don't piss and moan when someone else fails to do YOUR JOB.
 

Mike

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JT wrote:
The video doesn't show enough detail to know what level of interaction took place before the pastor tried to leave. The LEO's aren't uniformed so if they didn't identify properly then I don't blame the guy for trying to get away. I don't see anything on the video that justifies them opening fire on the guy. Still there isn't enough on the videoto really come to any conclusions.
What video? Link? What was the basis to stop the vehicle at all?
 

Mike

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OK, a bunch google up, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qUl9R6DrXM

Plain clothed police charge is car with guns drawn in the middle of a gas station and start blazing away? Huh? Sounds like endangering society if you ask me.

If its true the police only wanted to talk to the guy, then call me crazy, but I see no basis to try to seize him or his vehicle, or put their bodies in the way of his vehicle, let alone shoot him.

This was Georgia, right? I hear GeorgiaCarry.org still is having trouble with several police departments thinking that te police can just stop and question folks carying guns - looks like they need more lawsuits down there.

And this pastor's family no doubt will be filing a wrongful death lawsuit.
 

smoking357

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PrayingForWar wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
PrayingForWar wrote:
Murder? Not quite.
How can you sleep at night? How can you look yourself in the mirror?

GO F^CK YOURSELF. The police are not the enemy you imbecile, change the CD.
Look at anger from the Communists when you start criticizing their big-government programs, preach the virtues of limited government, and demand that the government respect that the citizen is superior to the state.

The hard-Left wackos don't like hearing that. They're all for taxing you to death and stripping you of your sovereignty and autonomy, using guns and the collected power of the state to force you to buckle before the state's power.

I would say that these people need to move to a country that better matches their ideology, but the KGB only wished it had the power, weapons, tactics and unaccountability these Commies would grant to the state.

It's well past time Americans started reclaiming their freedoms before the total government thugs like this guy turn America into a gulag.
 

JT

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smoking357 wrote:
Sorry, Salmon, the American South has turned Christ into Ares or Shiva.
Is it any wonder people react to you the way they do? Ok we get it. You don't like police. You don't like southerners. I don't believe that police are the greatest threat to this country. I am from the South. I am happy to be an affront to you. We all like to think we are making a significant contribution with our lives.;)

Now that we have established your biases for the umpteenth time, I will say again that the video by itselfis inconclusive and asI said before I saw nothing on the video to justify the use of deadly force. Now that the eyewitness testimony is coming out, we will get closer to the truth. According to the store owner it appears that the truth is against the police.

These police are not the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. The problem is the attitudes and willful ignoranceof the American people and our failure to hold our governments at all levels accountable. You are no help in my opinion since all you do is pontificate about the evils of police and throw out intentionallyprovactive remarks such as when you advocatedU.N. occupation and disparage whole groups of people. But perhaps you view that as a significant contribution. To each his own.

This situation is a tragedy. Hopefully the truth will come out and justice be done.
 

smoking357

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JT wrote:
This situation is a tragedy. Hopefully the truth will come out and justice be done.
Not quite tragedy. That word has a meaning that is often misapplied.

What is justice in this case?

These police are not the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. The problem is the attitudes and willful ignorance of the American people and our failure to hold our governments at all levels accountable.
And what would holding them accountable look like?
 

JT

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smoking357 wrote:
Not quite tragedy. That word has a meaning that is often misapplied.
Suffice it to say it is a tragic situation. If the word "gay" can be redefined to mean homosexual I don't think it is a serious crime to stretch the word "tragedy" to describe the situation we are talking about.

smoking357 wrote:
What is justice in this case?

The truth known, the guilty identified, charged, tried and punished according to the law. Ultimate justice will be dispensed at a later date.

smoking357 wrote:
And what would holding them accountable look like?
It would look like the law and the ballot box. The details would depend on the level of government involvedbut I'm not going to derail this thread any further trying to spell it out.
 

codename_47

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Strange--I've been pulled over5 times, and I've been a passenger in a vehicle that was pulled over. Not once have I felt threatened or in danger.



Are you white?

On the other hand, I'm always polite to LEOs, and make sure that I don't do anything that could be construed as threatening.

Today that really doesn't even matter. You are at risk regardless.

FYI 357, pro-se means for yourself or in other words, to sue without a lawyer and represent yourself. I think most people would find the experience rewarding.
 
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