Considering new 45 carry ammo

thnycav · Feb 10, 2010

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The 45 or 9mm would not be the primary weapon for them. It would be something the uses 7.62 or 5.56. So it does not mater if it is FMJ or not. I do like a 1911 but given the choice I would rather have a M16.

1911er · Feb 10, 2010

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I will use the rest of the black talon rounds I have then worry about what to shoot after that

Grapeshot · Feb 10, 2010

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1911er wrote:

I will use the rest of the black talon rounds I have then worry about what to shoot after that

The much maligned Black Talon evolved into Ranger - then Ranger T - and now the Ranger SXT.

So the short of it is your talons are not only available, but in an improved form.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Winchester_9mm_Luger_RA9TA_Ranger_SXT_9mm_127_gr_epi/content_501386088068

Yata hey

Diesel-n-Lead · Feb 10, 2010

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Grapeshot wrote:

1911er wrote:

I will use the rest of the black talon rounds I have then worry about what to shoot after that

Click to expand...

The much maligned Black Talon evolved into Ranger - then Ranger T - and now the Ranger SXT.

So the short of it is your talons are not only available, but in an improved form.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Winchester_9mm_Luger_RA9TA_Ranger_SXT_9mm_127_gr_epi/content_501386088068

Yata hey

I wonder what the performance difference is between the two rounds given the absence of the "Lubalox" coating, if any difference exists.

Grapeshot · Feb 10, 2010

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Diesel-n-Lead wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

1911er wrote:

I will use the rest of the black talon rounds I have then worry about what to shoot after that

Click to expand...

The much maligned Black Talon evolved into Ranger - then Ranger T - and now the Ranger SXT.

So the short of it is your talons are not only available, but in an improved form.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Winchester_9mm_Luger_RA9TA_Ranger_SXT_9mm_127_gr_epi/content_501386088068

Yata hey

Click to expand...

I wonder what the performance difference is between the two rounds given the absence of the "Lubalox" coating, if any difference exists.

SXT in "normal" loading is 885+ fps, but in +P+ is over 1200 fps

Comparison data available below, scroll down the page for a long list of ammo performance specs.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

Yata hey

W5DVC · Feb 11, 2010

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Ok......hollowpoints , or softpoints , vs. ball ammo . 1). all hollowpoints are not created equal . You have to drive a hollowpoint bullet at least 1100fps. to get them to open up . In the winter time people are wearing heavier clothing and the hollowpoints just plug up with hollowfill and then they behave like ball ammo anyway . That is why I PREFER BIG FLAT POINTS ( SOFT POINTS ) . They expand reliably and do lots of DAMAGE ,BREAK BONES , LOTS OF TISSUE DAMAGE AND A LARGE WOUND CHANNEL . Don't even think about carrying handloaded ammunition for self-defense . If you antagonist survives or even if he doesn't , his or his families' attorneys will have a field day exploring your CRIMINAL LIABILITY due to your carrying non-factory ammunition . Don't think so ,.............ask an attorney........any attorney .

Grapeshot · Feb 11, 2010

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W5DVC wrote:

Ok......hollowpoints , or softpoints , vs. ball ammo . 1). all hollowpoints are not created equal . You have to drive a hollowpoint bullet at least 1100fps. to get them to open up . In the winter time people are wearing heavier clothing and the hollowpoints just plug up with hollowfill and then they behave like ball ammo anyway .

That it exactly what Corbon DPX was designed to overcome. It is not jacketed, contains no lead, is solid copper - unbelievable barrier penetration, w/o expanding, it expands on soft tissue. .45 ACP 185 gr +P 1075 fps
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=CBDPX4518520

Federal HST 230 gr +P at 996fps
See posting by me on page 3 of this thread for pictures.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/45_CorbonDPX.htm

Yata hey

W5DVC · Feb 11, 2010

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My answer.................. .500 S&W MAGNUM............. .500 S&W SPECIAL AMMO W/275GR CORBON DPX BULLET@ 1250 FPS and did I say it's a .50 cal:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Diesel-n-Lead · Feb 11, 2010

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W5DVC wrote:

My answer.................. .500 S&W MAGNUM............. .500 S&W SPECIAL AMMO W/275GR CORBON DPX BULLET@ 1250 FPS and did I say it's a .50 cal:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

That's a prosecutor's and"personal injury"Lawyer's wet dream...

Grapeshot · Feb 11, 2010

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Diesel-n-Lead wrote:

W5DVC wrote:

My answer.................. .500 S&W MAGNUM............. .500 S&W SPECIAL AMMO W/275GR CORBON DPX BULLET@ 1250 FPS and did I say it's a .50 cal:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Click to expand...

That's a prosecutor's and"personal injury"Lawyer's wet dream...

I can see that, but you might be hiking in bear country or hunting that day with it.

I didn't want to do it, but he left me no choice - affirmative defense and/or castle doctrine with no civil liability are your friends.

Yata hey

W5DVC · Feb 11, 2010

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This ain't The People's Republic of California................THIS IS TEXAS.

Ole Man Dan · Mar 10, 2010

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[/quote]
One thing I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention....Castle Doctrine. If you are "forced" to defend yourself with deadly force the Castle Doctrine is supposed to keep you safe from prosecution and civil action.....just sayin....
****
I'm a retired LEO Firearms Instructor.
I have seen many cases in Criminal & Civil court that were ultimately decided by the 'Castle Doctrine'. The D.A. could have 'No Billed' the cases, but most D.A.s don't want to take the heat (Elected Officials), so they run the case before the Grand Jury. Going before a Grand Jury is kind of a Crap Shoot... You may have your case bound over for trial, or not.

The Key phrase is 'In Court'. Now days if you are involved in a shooting you will most likely go to court.
(Criminal Trial, Civil Trial, Civil Rights Trial)

Most of the time the jury gets it right... Sometimes not.

A Jury of your 'Peers' will likely include a number of folks who have never held a gun, they are there because either they could not get out of Jury Duty, or worse they could be the local 'Do-Gooder'.

Even if they get things wrong and you have to go to court.
Please remember that it's better to win the shooting and then deal with the Courts...
BTDT

Grapeshot · Mar 10, 2010

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Ole Man Dan wrote:

One thing I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention....Castle Doctrine. If you are "forced" to defend yourself with deadly force the Castle Doctrine is supposed to keep you safe from prosecution and civil action.....just sayin....

Castle Doctrine or "stand your ground" laws vary from state to state (some have only case law) and do not always contain protection against civil liability.

The benefits of these are obvious to most, although there are learned opinions to the contrary. Such laws codify the protection rather than depend on an affirmative defense. There is no free lunch - you will pay a price when forced to defend yourself with deadly force - how great the cost will be still be mostly beyond your control.

Yata hey

W5DVC · Mar 10, 2010

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W5DVC wrote:

My answer.................. .500 S&W MAGNUM............. .500 S&W SPECIAL AMMO W/275GR CORBON DPX BULLET@ 1250 FPS and did I say it's a .50 cal:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

At the time I wrote this , I didn't think to include a photo . I have just corrected that oversite . W5DVC

W5DVC · Mar 10, 2010

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There is one other thing , it's " OBAMA NEUTRAL" . It's not SEMI-AUTO AND IT'S NOT HIGH CAPACITY ".:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

BreakingTheMold · Mar 10, 2010

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why not pick an expanding round that functions and stagger it with fmjs, having whichever you prefer in the tube.

Or as you said it was in the winter, why not use fmjs in the winter and hps in the summer.

Though after the case, i belive in AZ, where a man was charged for using, IIRC, 10mm HPs. Since they are only designed for one thing...

better to be judged then carried.

shad0wfax · Mar 12, 2010

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Michigander wrote:

[SNIP]

-Expansion
-Good penetration
-Bullet weight retention regardless of what gets hit along the way
-A round nose that enables easy feeding
-Available as bullets only, not just loaded rounds

Thank you in advance if anyone has meaningful suggestions.

Speer Gold Dot Remington Golden Saber Federal Hydra-Shock Winchester SXT

They expand quite well, almost as good as the newest Federal HST.

They penetrate very well, and have a tendency to over-penetrate by LEO standards when shooting through drywall and other barriers that can clog the tips. ALL HP bullets seem to have this problem with the FBI/NIJ testing except for the HST.

They have great weight retention.

They feed well.

These are the only two I know of that are available as components as well as loaded rounds. I am not aware of the Federal HST bullet available as a component, but it's the best at barrier penetration with subsequent expansion that's available.

I personally prefer the Speer Gold Dot to all but the Federal HST. Since I can't get the HST, I go for the Gold Dot.

Grapeshot · Mar 12, 2010

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shad0wfax wrote:

Speer Gold Dot Remington Golden Saber Federal Hydra-Shock Winchester SXT

They expand quite well, almost as good as the newest Federal HST.

They penetrate very well, and have a tendency to over-penetrate by LEO standards when shooting through drywall and other barriers that can clog the tips. ALL HP bullets seem to have this problem with the FBI/NIJ testing except for the HST.

They have great weight retention.

They feed well.

These are the only two I know of that are available as components as well as loaded rounds. I am not aware of the Federal HST bullet available as a component, but it's the best at barrier penetration with subsequent expansion that's available.

I personally prefer the Speer Gold Dot to all but the Federal HST. Since I can't get the HST, I go for the Gold Dot.

Corbon DPX, hands down best barrier penetration and without over penetration - expands on soft tissue.

Federal HST - greatest expansion, best weight retention.

Yata hey

W5DVC · Mar 13, 2010

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If we are still talking about my .500 S&W..........I agree Grapeshot...........the DPX is the best ........but the 500 grain HORNADY JACKETED FLAT POINT (XTP) will probably beat them all hands down on barrier penetration.......but then again it's not a hollow-point .......and it's designed for maximum penetration on DANGEROUS GAME . DITTO

Grapeshot · Mar 13, 2010

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W5DVC wrote:

If we are still talking about my .500 S&W..........I agree Grapeshot...........the DPX is the best ........but the 500 grain HORNADY JACKETED FLAT POINT (XTP) will probably beat them all hands down on barrier penetration.......but then again it's not a hollow-point .......and it's designed for maximum penetration on DANGEROUS GAME . DITTO

The OP referenced .45 ACP - it was to that which I was responding.

Hornady does have DPX in big game loads and they are very effective.

Yata hey

Considering new 45 carry ammo

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