thnycav wrote:
Jor Reeser wrote:
office888 wrote:
The military has used it for 100+ years. I don't see a reason why I shouldn't.
-Richard-
"
bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions" are prohibited to the military by Declaration III of the Hague Convention of 1899. The fact that the military uses FMJ is not an endorsement.
I carry FMJ myself in my .380. I carry JHP in my .45.
Yes that is true the military can not use expanding rounds, but 45 ball ammo will get the job done. This is what makes the 9mm a very weak round. You do need a JHP to get it to perform. We went to the 9mm so we could conform to the rest of NATO with ammo, it was done in the mid 80's.
I am so sick and tired of people feeding the myth of the 9mm verses 45 nonsense. Consider it defended from this front. I've read the dismal reports about the 9mm, but have yet to hear of a test volunteer to stand on his hind legs and take one in the chest. That round has killed a lotta folks since 1908. Add to the above that I've witnessed it, and I promise that the 9mm is not a slacker, even in hardball configuration. True, it fails to stop an attack sometimes...So does the .45 ACP just as much. Practice...Often. Put the shots in the right place, and the nine will do the job almost everytime, especially with modern loadings and bullet design. Believe in your heart that there is no such thing as guaranteed one-shot stop with anything short of a .50 Browning at 20 paces.
I am working on a new post that will destroy most of these STUPID MYTHS on this.If it had been a bad round, it would have been extinct quite some time ago. As the owner of a 9mm and OWNER OF MANY .45'S, just pick up your weapon and get better pulling the friggin' trigger... pick a handgun you can control and practice. It's still gonna be about shot placement...it's a tired thread...let it go. In other words, on X-Rays, a thoracic cavity full of 9mm hollow point fragments looks just the same as a thoracic cavity full of .45 cailber hollow point fragments.
SIMPLE PUT, PRACTICE PUTTING ROUNDS CENTER MASS WILL DO MORE THEN A MAN WITH A S&W .500 MAG WHOM CAN'T CONTROL IT AND BE EFFICIENT WITH THAT CALIBER. PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE.
Hey, why not ask those who issue or authorize it!
LAPD
NYPD
NYSD
LVMPD
US Customs
NJSP
Palm Bay FL. PD
Philadelphia PD
San Bernadino PD
Dallas Texas PD
SDPD
Santa Clara PD
DC police
Just to name a few...........
One common theme is, they all use quality ammunition like Ranger, Federal Tactical or Gold Dot. Of course, all of the calibers benefit when the best loads available for them are utilized, and any of them can be made to perform quite poorly when they aren't.
Hell, the Texas DPS was under-whelmed by the .45's performance with regards to hard barrier penetration, and failures to incapacitate rapidly enough in a few unobstructed frontal shootings as well. They subsequently began issuing the 357 Sig or (.355 +P++), coupling the P226 with 125gr Gold Dot's. Should we now have to justify the .45's existence?
These type of stupid comments do nothing but put out false info to new shooters who are looking for facts not wet dreams of someones idea of a ideal round. There are facts and there is pulling crap out of your fourth point of contact. Sorry if I am coming off as a dick but come one people, we need to advise practice practice and practice some more will ALWAYS do more then any "Superior top round" round. There is pros and cons to each caliber, if this was not the case then would not have all these lovely flavors that we have today.
