-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
House Passed Health Bill!!!!!
- Thread starter swatspyder
- Start date
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
EXACTLY BooBoo ECACTLY
EXACTLY BooBoo ECACTLY
Tawnos
Regular Member
imported post
DEROS72 wrote:
You're stating that your service is intrinsically more valuable, monetarily, than that of a person who works in a job. The fact is, you took a job for a certain amount of compensation, why do you think you should receive lifetime compensation for a limited-time job, when others receive only a few months coverage they must pay for once they no longer work? Going to war or not, you agreed to and did a job, why does that particular job warrant a lifetime of coverage where no other job does?
That said, providing a public option does nothing to prevent those who work or succeed from being "rewarded." They can pay for private practitioners, obtain private insurance, etc. Providing a public option does nothing to limit that freedom.
DEROS72 wrote:
I'm really just playing devil's advocate here (see my posts on www.commonsensethoughtcontrol.com for my thoughts on the legality and/or idea of federal health care).I am on VA but I earned . I went to war for this country as you did.That alone is earning it.I have also worked straight for 38 years paid taxes etc and get a pension from that as well ..I earned it.Those who make more money in their working life should get more than those who made less.We need to reward those who work or suceed as opoosed to paying out to those that don't.
You're stating that your service is intrinsically more valuable, monetarily, than that of a person who works in a job. The fact is, you took a job for a certain amount of compensation, why do you think you should receive lifetime compensation for a limited-time job, when others receive only a few months coverage they must pay for once they no longer work? Going to war or not, you agreed to and did a job, why does that particular job warrant a lifetime of coverage where no other job does?
That said, providing a public option does nothing to prevent those who work or succeed from being "rewarded." They can pay for private practitioners, obtain private insurance, etc. Providing a public option does nothing to limit that freedom.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Boo Boo wrote:
I'm not sure I understand where you got the idea that a doctor owes anyone his services.
At any price other than what he wants.
Or, why, just because a technology exists, that suddenly every single person deserves the highest service possible bought and paid for by others.
When did the world change to where everyone is owed medical service paid for by the labor of others? Who decided that economic conditions were so well advanced? That medical services were so cheap? When did this occur?
Who set themselves up as king to decide what medical services an insurance company must cover? What coverage they must offer?
I was reading recently from a doctor, cannot recall where, that before all thegovernment meddling in health insurance, charity used to work quite well.
Property rights are property rights. And before redistribution can happen, confiscation must occur.
Boo Boo wrote:
BooBoo,SNIP you should never be afraid to go to the doctor if you are sick. and wonder if going to the emergency will bankrupt your family.
I'm not sure I understand where you got the idea that a doctor owes anyone his services.
At any price other than what he wants.
Or, why, just because a technology exists, that suddenly every single person deserves the highest service possible bought and paid for by others.
When did the world change to where everyone is owed medical service paid for by the labor of others? Who decided that economic conditions were so well advanced? That medical services were so cheap? When did this occur?
Who set themselves up as king to decide what medical services an insurance company must cover? What coverage they must offer?
I was reading recently from a doctor, cannot recall where, that before all thegovernment meddling in health insurance, charity used to work quite well.
Property rights are property rights. And before redistribution can happen, confiscation must occur.
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
A doctor takes an oath to help, for instance i am a combat medic, Do i get the right to drive by a car wreck were people need medical attention? the law says NO the law says i have to stop and lend aid when possible.
for instance u can walk into any hospital and get seen by a doctor despite your ability to pay. Yet go to a Dentists office and try that. You wont get past the receptionists desk before u get thrown out and laughed at.
The cure for fixing this health care issue it kick all the illegals out of here cut them off and re coop all the money that is spent back into medical care programs.
A doctor takes an oath to help, for instance i am a combat medic, Do i get the right to drive by a car wreck were people need medical attention? the law says NO the law says i have to stop and lend aid when possible.
for instance u can walk into any hospital and get seen by a doctor despite your ability to pay. Yet go to a Dentists office and try that. You wont get past the receptionists desk before u get thrown out and laughed at.
The cure for fixing this health care issue it kick all the illegals out of here cut them off and re coop all the money that is spent back into medical care programs.
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
One small note, and you have to admit that this is true. When Servicemen were returning from Vietnam, they did not receive the same welcome that you and I did. You and I WERE in a different conflict. Wounds may be the same, but the social climate of the Country was quite different.
We, by and large, have come home to a Country whos arms were open. Can you imagine, for a minute, going through all you and I have seen and then get their "welcome"? I wont even pretend I can understand the difference.
Being as I got so many of these each time I got home from the litter box...
Welcome home.
jarhead1055 wrote:
DEROS72 wrote:I am on VA but I earned . I went to war for this country as you did.That alone is earning it.I have also worked straight for 38 years paid taxes etc and get a pension from that as well ..I earned it.Those who make more money in their working life should get more than those who made less.We need to reward those who work or suceed as opoosed to paying out to those that don't.
You make it sound like if you work hard you will automaticlly be sucessful, thats not the case in this day in age, I served 8 years in the Corps and i got tore up in the process because my country told me this is what i need to do and i did it. 8 long years i was shot blown up damn near was made a POW yet i dont think anyone owes me a damn thing.
Statisticly Nam Vets think there war was worse than mine, They think that they deserve more for whatever reason if you do not believe me go talk to people at the VA sometime.
You of all people Should realize that once appon a time yes you made good money and you were all about getting yours. Hows that working out for you now? The VA treats most vets like crap like its a bother to them to do there jobs but here we sit thankful for whatever scraps we get........
So if you want to lecture people about what is correct and what is not then why dont u take your happy gimp butt down to the VA Admin building and make them explain to you why you dont get better care?
One small note, and you have to admit that this is true. When Servicemen were returning from Vietnam, they did not receive the same welcome that you and I did. You and I WERE in a different conflict. Wounds may be the same, but the social climate of the Country was quite different.
We, by and large, have come home to a Country whos arms were open. Can you imagine, for a minute, going through all you and I have seen and then get their "welcome"? I wont even pretend I can understand the difference.
Being as I got so many of these each time I got home from the litter box...
Welcome home.
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
We should all now be afraid of the wait times to actually see a Dr....you should never be afraid to go to the doctor if you are sick. and wonder if going to the emergency will bankrupt your family.
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
I Can see that point my dad is a Nam Vet, None the less a cop get shot and dies and hundreds of people show up for his funeral. a man dies in combat and we get people protesting at the gates of Ft Lewis............ So maybe not that much diffrent
I Can see that point my dad is a Nam Vet, None the less a cop get shot and dies and hundreds of people show up for his funeral. a man dies in combat and we get people protesting at the gates of Ft Lewis............ So maybe not that much diffrent
sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
And this is on topic for Washington and open carry how?
And this is on topic for Washington and open carry how?
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Commodore76 wrote:
Commodore76 wrote:
Well, I guess its back to the old days. Where'smy book on mountain herbal remedies?We should all now be afraid of the wait times to actually see a Dr....you should never be afraid to go to the doctor if you are sick. and wonder if going to the emergency will bankrupt your family.
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
SV relax just because you live on a bath toy by yourself and sell papers for a living dosnt give you the right to bring that rediculous comment up yet again "dude grow up will ya"
comes to mind
SV relax just because you live on a bath toy by yourself and sell papers for a living dosnt give you the right to bring that rediculous comment up yet again "dude grow up will ya"
comes to mind
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
Tawnos wrote:
Tawnos wrote:
Because that was a part of the agreement we had with the Government when we enlisted. That, the GI Bill, potential for retirement, VA loans... We honored our part of the deal, now we should be able to hold the Gov to keep their end. That simple. Not that a job in the military was harder or such a long duration. It was a contract thatwe signed with the Gov.You're stating that your service is intrinsically more valuable, monetarily, than that of a person who works in a job. The fact is, you took a job for a certain amount of compensation, why do you think you should receive lifetime compensation for a limited-time job, when others receive only a few months coverage they must pay for once they no longer work? Going to war or not, you agreed to and did a job, why does that particular job warrant a lifetime of coverage where no other job does?
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
Getting this country to take care of there own is like expecting a used car salesman to tell the truth about the car ( hope i didnt offend any car salesman there are some good ones out there)
Getting this country to take care of there own is like expecting a used car salesman to tell the truth about the car ( hope i didnt offend any car salesman there are some good ones out there)
sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
Let me rephrase this for you. Just because I live on a boat (and you keep saying how you want to) and am the lead sales agent for two daily papers in Thurston County (a job where I am respected and well liked)...
Marc, the rules for what is on topic for this forum are very plain, and has been pointed out there is a good bit of self moderation going on here, and I have just as much right as anyone to call foul when I see it.
jarhead1055 wrote:
SV relax just because you live on a bath toy by yourself and sell papers for a living dosnt give you the right to bring that rediculous comment up yet again "dude grow up will ya"
comes to mind
Let me rephrase this for you. Just because I live on a boat (and you keep saying how you want to) and am the lead sales agent for two daily papers in Thurston County (a job where I am respected and well liked)...
Marc, the rules for what is on topic for this forum are very plain, and has been pointed out there is a good bit of self moderation going on here, and I have just as much right as anyone to call foul when I see it.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
He's got a point. What really looks bad is people telling him he's wrong.
jarhead1055 wrote:
SV relax just because you live on a bath toy by yourself and sell papers for a living dosnt give you the right to bring that rediculous comment up yet again "dude grow up will ya"
comes to mind
He's got a point. What really looks bad is people telling him he's wrong.
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
Hey, I don't mean to be a jerk here. Just thought you might want to read the oath before you try to quote it again.
Hippocratic Oath
"I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:
To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.
I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.
Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.
Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.
So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate."
jarhead1055 wrote:
A doctor takes an oath to help, for instance i am a combat medic, Do i get the right to drive by a car wreck were people need medical attention? the law says NO the law says i have to stop and lend aid when possible.
for instance u can walk into any hospital and get seen by a doctor despite your ability to pay. Yet go to a Dentists office and try that. You wont get past the receptionists desk before u get thrown out and laughed at.
The cure for fixing this health care issue it kick all the illegals out of here cut them off and re coop all the money that is spent back into medical care programs.
Hey, I don't mean to be a jerk here. Just thought you might want to read the oath before you try to quote it again.
Hippocratic Oath
"I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:
To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.
I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.
Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.
Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.
So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate."
jarhead1911A
New member
imported post
SV if you had your way youd be yelling foul every 5 seconds besides off topic or not we all have the right to speak our minds, besides i dont see you posting off topic on every post on here that has nothing todo with OC and there are alot of them.
So your saying that because your the top salesman (who has said many times dont approach him while OCing) that you get to call foul when you want 2? I dont think so bubba
And if you want to compare careers, you go do 8 years in the military then you can compare paper sales with my life :?
SV if you had your way youd be yelling foul every 5 seconds besides off topic or not we all have the right to speak our minds, besides i dont see you posting off topic on every post on here that has nothing todo with OC and there are alot of them.
So your saying that because your the top salesman (who has said many times dont approach him while OCing) that you get to call foul when you want 2? I dont think so bubba
And if you want to compare careers, you go do 8 years in the military then you can compare paper sales with my life :?
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
jarhead1055 wrote:
I'm not really addressing the difference between the sacrafice of a LEO and that of a servicemember. Let's stay focused...I Can see that point my dad is a Nam Vet, None the less a cop get shot and dies and hundreds of people show up for his funeral. a man dies in combat and we get people protesting at the gates of Ft Lewis............ So maybe not that much diffrent
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
I propose that we stop sniping one another anddiscontinue the Health Care debate on this thread and in this forum and leave it to the "professionals" in D.C.
All in favor?
I propose that we stop sniping one another anddiscontinue the Health Care debate on this thread and in this forum and leave it to the "professionals" in D.C.
All in favor?
Commodore76
Regular Member
imported post
jarhead1055 wrote:
jarhead1055 wrote:
Lol. You love to debate, don't ya? We gotta do this in person again!SV relax just because you live on a bath toy by yourself and sell papers for a living dosnt give you the right to bring that rediculous comment up yet again "dude grow up will ya"
comes to mind