Difference between a rifle and pistol and how to prove it to cops who arrest you for open carrying ?

longwatch · Dec 22, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

I agree with Hawkflyer and JURGII, if you want to look like a commando with your AK or AR pistol, expect to get hassled.

Click to expand...

Why should I "expect toget hassled" for breaking no law?

Click to expand...

OK, so this weapon falls under the legal definition of a pistol. Legally, you have a right to carry it with a HCP.

Is it practical, as a self defense carry weapon, under normal circumstances? Maybe, if you're expecting to engage a heavily armed gang or terrorist group.

Let's compare this AK pistol to a "normal" handgun.

It looks like something that a covert ops team might carry on a missioninto hostile territory.
"Normal" handguns don't.

The weight of the AK pistol would seem to make it difficult to hold up to shoot at arms length.
"Normal" handguns are lighter for this purpose.

The rounds are definitely going to over penetrate and can probably penetrate most LEO body armor. Not a good round to be firing in a public place.
"Normal" handgun rounds aren't as likely to over penetrate or pass through LEO body armor.

Now, let me ask you to think about something here. Suppose you're in a Walmart and a couple middle eastern looking men come in with AK 47 pistols slung accross their chest. What is the first thing that is going to run through your head? OR suppose a couple of people walk into a bank that your in with weapons like these? Now, in both scenarios the persons carrying those AK 47 pistols may be legal in every way and have no ill intent, but you don't know that. Now look at these scenarios through the eyes of the average citizen, with average mindset, if you can. The same people we are trying to de-sensitize to the sight of LAC carrying "normal" handguns in public.

Think about it. Reeeaaalllly think about it.

Keep it mind if a pistol is available and lawful to carry, eventually somebody somewhere will OC it. As in this case, and we as a movement need to decide whether there is a limit to the right of OC or not.

Sonora Rebel · Dec 22, 2009

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kwikrnu... You're just grandstanding. 'Hope you've read all of these comments 'cause they're dead on. Yeah... it's your 'right'... we know that. Is it a responsible (even practical) choice for self defense? No.

It's a 'look at me... look whatI got' mall ninja accessory attention getter. OK... so you got the attention, now you're snivelin' about it. 'Seems like carryin' a gun is a novelty to you. 'It'syour right'.... OK... but is it reasonable? I just took a look at AK based 'pistols' http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Pistols.php'n have no doubtswhy you were 'detained' while waltzin' around with one of these in public.

Superlite27 · Dec 22, 2009

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kwikrnu,

I had a question about your intent during your last post, but unfortunatlely, the thread was locked while I was writing my question, so I didn't get to ask it.

You commented about painting the barrel of your AK orange so it would look like a toy.

Now you ask why you're getting hassled about OC'ing your AK.

When I carry, I fully realize that I AM A REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL OPEN CARRIERS. I conduct myself in a manner that represents gun owners because people are looking at me and saying, "There's a guy carrying a gun. He's doing (insert action). All people who carry a gun must (insert previous action)."

So, when I carry, I do so in a manner that shows the public what I believe a gun owner represents.

What's the reason you are carrying?

What are you trying to represent?

You are in favor of taking the open carry movement forward and helping the cause, right?

Could you explain how your actions are doing this?

Just a few questionsI'd like to have answered asone of the people you are representing.

tekshogun · Dec 22, 2009

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I have to poin out something, and someone already has.

I know they build pistol models similar to the rifle versions, but at first glance and even upon investigation, it is not readily apparent.

If you want to fast track your way out of a LEO encounter over your rifle caliber pistol, then carrysome documentation.

Sure, you're with in your right, but that thing "looks" like an AK-47 with the buttstock either folder over (if one is looking at it from a different angle) or removed. Remember a rifle that has been converted into a pistol, by law is still a rifle and is also now illegal if it's overall length is too short. If police feel or make the claim that thismay possibly be the case, then they probably will investigate the gun. If you can show them that the carbine was not designed to readily take a stock or there was no stock there, then you may be able to go scott free quicker. I don't know.

That is my opinion, I could be wrong.

kwikrnu · Dec 22, 2009

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First of all I don't represent any group I only represent myself.

I have a handgun carry permit issued by the State of Tennessee.

I believe I have the right to carry any handgun I wish where it is legal to carry.

I believe I have the right to carry any handgun of any color I wish where it is legal to carry.

Anyone who thinks that an AR pistol or an AK pistol or a sig556 pistol or a plr-16 pistol "looks" too dangerous to carry is against the Second Amendment.

I do not believe the government should regulate the finish of firearms, but apparently some people do. If you feel that way then contact your government rep so they can write local or national laws regulating the color of firearms. Personally I do not like the hot pink anodized charter arms revolvers, but I do not attack people because they purchase the guns.

kwikrnu · Dec 22, 2009

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tekshogun wrote:

If you want to fast track your way out of a LEO encounter over your rifle caliber pistol, then carrysome documentation.

Sure, you're with in your right, but that thing "looks" like an AK-47 with the buttstock either folder over (if one is looking at it from a different angle) or removed. Remember a rifle that has been converted into a pistol, by law is still a rifle and is also now illegal if it's overall length is too short. If police feel or make the claim that thismay possibly be the case, then they probably will investigate the gun. If you can show them that the carbine was not designed to readily take a stock or there was no stock there, then you may be able to go scott free quicker. I don't know.

That is my opinion, I could be wrong.

They had the rifle and 9 cops looked it over many times during the 2.5 hours. I received it new from the dealer 12/16/09. There are no holes in the receiver for an underfolder. Therear trunion is not made for a side folder. There is no way I know of to attach a stock to it w/o completely modifying it.

They kept claiming it has to be a riflebecause we've never seen an ak pistol before or you must have sawed the stock off.It was a fishing trip for them. They had RAS to detain me and check my permit and maybe run theserial of the pistol, but to hold me 2.5 hours is too much. They were trying to manufacture something against me.

tekshogun · Dec 22, 2009

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kwikrnu wrote:

First of all I don't represent any group I only represent myself.

I have a handgun carry permit issued by the State of Tennessee.

I believe I have the right to carry any handgun I wish where it is legal to carry.

I believe I have the right to carry any handgun of any color I wish where it is legal to carry.

Anyone who thinks that an AR pistol or an AK pistol or a sig556 pistol or a plr-16 pistol "looks" too dangerous to carry is against the Second Amendment.

I do not believe the government should regulate the finish of firearms, but apparently some people do. If you feel that way then contact your government rep so they can write local or national laws regulating the color of firearms. Personally I do not like the hot pink anodized charter arms revolvers, but I do not attack people because they purchase the guns.

And I completely agree with you, but again, if a cop sees your gun and can not readily tell it is a pistol versus a modified rifle, then you're going to be stopped. I say, that is ok, it is bound to happen with anyone open carrying places where it is uncommon. Just don't do anything that ends with you hurt or dead, we here don't want that. You are well with in your right and you should continue to practice that.

I won't comment on your orange tip. I do have an opinion against that, but it is a matter of personal preference. My personal preference has nothing to do with your rights. You can paint the whold thing orange if you want to.

slowfiveoh · Dec 22, 2009

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You know, I joined this forum because I thought after months of observation, that the majority of you really were for 2A and RKBA. I joined because I saw a group of people trying to do the right thing.

Now I see a group of people replying to this guy like the very "anti's" they oppose. Why don't you guys go ahead and keep trying to tell this guy what is appropriate to carry?

Who the hell are you to tell him what he should be carrying or not carrying? Who the hell are you to tell him he is "grandstanding"? I have likewise contemplated the purchase of an AR pistol and may yet buy one!

Last I checked, the name of this site was "opencarry.com". Not "opencarrypistols.com". Not "opencarrypistolswith10orlessrounds.com".

I charge each and every person here retaliating against this guy with, blatant ignorance. There are pistols that have far more kick than an AK based pistol, so get over your whimsical "omg it's an assault rifle" problem, because it's NOT an assault rifle.

Is it just me or did this site just get overrun by retarded lefty anti-gun radicals? Should i open a foam helmet stand and make a profit?

Sonora Rebel wrote:

kwikrnu... You're just grandstanding. 'Hope you've read all of these comments 'cause they're dead on. Yeah... it's your 'right'... we know that. Is it a responsible (even practical) choice for self defense? No.

It's a 'look at me... look whatI got' mall ninja accessory attention getter. OK... so you got the attention, now you're snivelin' about it. 'Seems like carryin' a gun is a novelty to you. 'It'syour right'.... OK... but is it reasonable? I just took a look at AK based 'pistols' http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Pistols.php'n have no doubtswhy you were 'detained' while waltzin' around with one of these in public.

So why is a AK or AR based pistol a poor choice? Please tell me. I amawaiting your logical reasoning.

Thundar · Dec 22, 2009

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Dreamer wrote:
I just don't see one single benefit (with the exception of sheer visual intimidation) of carrying such a firearm.

I see many benefits.

1) Significantly improved vest penetration.

2)Tremendous deterrent effect.

3) Cheaper Ammo.

4) Greater accuracy.

5) Helps the open carry movement by normalizing more than just"regular" handguns

Grapeshot · Dec 22, 2009

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kwikrnu wrote:

snip.....
They had the rifle and 9 cops looked it over many times during the 2.5 hours.

Whoops - slipsey. You called it a "rifle." My, oh my.

Yata hey

Thundar · Dec 22, 2009

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slowfiveoh wrote:

Last I checked, the name of this site was "opencarry.com". Not "opencarrypistols.com". Not "opencarrypistolswith10orlessrounds.com".

I charge each and every person here retaliating against this guy with, blatant ignorance. There are pistols that have far more kick than an AK based pistol, so get over your whimsical "omg it's an assault rifle" problem, because it's NOT an assault rifle.

+100000 slow50!!!!!

I have been alone in the Long Gun Open Carry (LGOC) wilderness here for years. Yes those that tell us don't do it do sound like anti's right down to their "you are gonna ruin it for the rest of us" crap.

There is a motto here "A right unexercised is a right lost" Ithink that the worst way to lose your right is not an anti stealing it based upon illogical emotional arguments, but loss due to fear of using it.

Exercise your rights. It feels great to be a free man. It also feels great supporting other free men that exercise their rights.

slowfiveoh · Dec 22, 2009

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You are so very correct thunder. I cannot believe the amount of people trying to "reasonably regulate" this individuals choice in firearm. Frankly, I am allowed by 2A to sling my bull twenty and walk to the store with it. So long as I am not brandishing it, WHO CARES!?

What's comical is, most of the people attacking AR or AK based firearms, wouldn't know the first thing about ballistics, or more specifically, what facts they would base classification of a weapon on.

If you look at a AR or AK and crap your pants, you're nothing but a well doctrinated puppet of an anti movement. I love the focus on the AR/AK platforms, which are all significantly weaker than other rounds found in common pistols.

I think this thread has prompted me to purchase a AR based pistol.

Thundar · Dec 22, 2009

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longwatch wrote:

Keep it mind if a pistol is available and lawful to carry, eventually somebody somewhere will OC it. As in this case, and we as a movement need to decide whether there is a limit to the right of OC or not.

There is no limit to the right, only infringement brought on by ignorance.

slowfiveoh · Dec 22, 2009

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So this begs the question.

Who CARES if it is a rifle anyways? Sincerely!? If he isn't waving it around like Akhmed on a quest for virgins, then who cares?

The point is, he was stopped, for merely carrying a firearm.

Grapeshot · Dec 22, 2009

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slowfiveoh wrote:

You know, I joined this forum because I thought after months of observation, that the majority of you really were for 2A and RKBA. I joined because I saw a group of people trying to do the right thing.

Now I see a group of people replying to this guy like the very "anti's" they oppose. Why don't you guys go ahead and keep trying to tell this guy what is appropriate to carry?

Who the hell are you to tell him what he should be carrying or not carrying? Who the hell are you to tell him he is "grandstanding"? I have likewise contemplated the purchase of an AR pistol and may yet buy one!

Last I checked, the name of this site was "opencarry.com". Not "opencarrypistols.com". Not "opencarrypistolswith10orlessrounds.com".

I charge each and every person here retaliating against this guy with, blatant ignorance. There are pistols that have far more kick than an AK based pistol, so get over your whimsical "omg it's an assault rifle" problem, because it's NOT an assault rifle.

Is it just me or did this site just get overrun by retarded lefty anti-gun radicals? Should i open a foam helmet stand and make a profit?

So why is a AK or AR based pistol a poor choice? Please tell me. I amawaiting your logical reasoning.

Newer members attacking or insulting posters won't get much traction. Take a deep breath and relax some. No group of our size will have everybody in 100% agreement.

We discuss and sometimes dissect postings in depth. I fail to see the wrong in that - but keep the personal remarks out of it please - it is a violation of rules for good reason. You are as equally entitled to your opinion as are others.

As noted earlier - I acknowledge his rights. I also recognize that it is pushing the envelope - neither pro or con - just recognition. Also agree that the publicity will likely be negative and fence sitters read too. We are in a public relations war as it is and I would like to see as many people as possible contributing - hopefully in a way that furthers our agenda. ymmv

Don't think that more explanation than that is required.

Yata hey

Thundar · Dec 22, 2009

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slowfiveoh wrote:

I think this thread has prompted me to purchase a AR based pistol.

The Sig 556 is awesome, but the Keltec PLR-16 is a lot cheaper!

slowfiveoh · Dec 22, 2009

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I'm sorry. I supposeI should know my place. Somewhere between actually believing in the 2nd amendment completely, and being a US Army qualified expert on several weapon platforms, I got confused and disoriented, and didn't realize that my status as an FNG on this forum clearly places my outlook in the back seat.

How dare I defend an individual for possessing a lawful arm, and then being criticized for it by people who claim to be proponents of opencarrying lawful arms.

I should know my role....right? :lol::quirky

Thundar · Dec 22, 2009

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Superlite27 wrote:

You are in favor of taking the open carry movement forward and helping the cause, right?

Could you explain how your actions are doing this?

Thank you kwikrnu for reminding us what this struggle is really all about.

It is about standing up and exercising our rights.

Straightforward an unabashed support for gun rights is what SAF, JPFO and some other gun rights organizations are all about. Incrementalist nonsense is what the NRA pushes with mixed results.

You appear to me to be more of a SAF Gun rights supporter than an NRA support some gun rights advocate.

Some here will disagree about which approach is best, but in reality the movement benefits from both. As long as we keep it civil and recognize that the 300 meter target is the Brady bunch and not each other then we will advance, sometimes incrementally and sometimes in big leaps, the OC movement and gun rights in general.

Carry on kwikrnu, carry on!

Live free or die,

Thundar

kwikrnu · Dec 22, 2009

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

Dreamer wrote:

Weird guns draw attention, and we're not OCing to draw attention to ourselves. We do it because it's a RIGHT, not because our firearms are some sort of fashion statement.

Click to expand...

I am carrying this ak-47 pistol because it is my right.

Click to expand...

Can you hit anything?

The sling works pretty good at steadying the handgun. It is a two point that adjusts quickly so I can push the weapon out. AK pistols are not known for accuracy, but at 3 yards it does just fine. I've only shot a few boxes of walmart winchester white box so far though.

kwikrnu · Dec 22, 2009

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Thundar wrote:

Straightforward an unabashed support for gun rights is what SAF, JPFO and some other gun rights organizations are all about. Incrementalist nonsense is what the NRA pushes with mixed results.

You appear to me to be more of a SAF Gun rights supporter than an NRA support some gun rights advocate.

The NRA is a moderate to left organization that seems more interested in money and power than actually doing something. I'm not sure about the others.

Difference between a rifle and pistol and how to prove it to cops who arrest you for open carrying ?

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