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UN Small Arms Treaty?

SouthernBoy

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rpyne wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:
It's not possible as laws currently stand. Treaties the US agree to are still subject to our National Constitution and if certain portions of a treaty are contrary to the Constitution, then it's not legal to enforce it.
Click to expand...
Actually, most constitutional scholars will tell you that treaties override our constitution.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the same ones who believe the Second Amendment to be a collective right?

Or that there's something in the First Amendment that addresses "separation of church and state"?

Well, they're wrong. We know because we can read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the English contained therein is perfect and a perfect example of words having meaning.
 
SouthernBoy

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Actually Mrs. Peters does a very good job of arguing her case in this video - better in some places than does Mr. LaPierre. Wayne turns to emotional rhetoric a few times, but so does Peters. Wayne just does it right at the start.

In one place, Peters lets the cat out of the bag when talking about confiscation and tells the audience that they'll just have to find other pastimes for their sporting pursuits. This doesn't set too well.

When anti's slip and say these things, you can almost imagine their supporters whispering, "Damnit, don't say that. They'll know what we really want to do."
 
SouthernBoy

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ufcfanvt wrote:
Say what you want and think what you want, but PLEASE don't make this into a Non-Issue for Gun Owners.
The fact is that this that the Supreme Court, especially after a few more unfortunate appointments, can and will sell you and me up the river:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Don't trust them and NEVER let such a treaty be treated causally!
Click to expand...
I agree completely with this. What I wrote is about what was written by the Founders. Unfortunately, what actually takes place can and frequently is, something else.

Thomas Jefferson believed the supreme court to be potentially, the biggest threat to liberty. These people are appointed, not elected, and may serve as long as they wish. All manner of evil can be visited upon us through their decisions. But there is a remedy built into our system.

The legislative branch is the most powerful of the three branches of the federal government. They can impeach and remove a sitting supreme court jurist if they so desire. And then there is the final power which exceeds anything in our government and that is "We The People". Via the Second Amendment and what was written in the Declaration of Independence, we hold the ultimate power and authority and can remove anyone in any office by force of arms if need be. The Founders weren't stupid.
 
UtahJarhead

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SouthernBoy wrote:
ufcfanvt wrote:
Say what you want and think what you want, but PLEASE don't make this into a Non-Issue for Gun Owners.
The fact is that this that the Supreme Court, especially after a few more unfortunate appointments, can and will sell you and me up the river:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Don't trust them and NEVER let such a treaty be treated causally!
Click to expand...
I agree completely with this. What I wrote is about what was written by the Founders. Unfortunately, what actually takes place can and frequently is, something else.

Thomas Jefferson believed the supreme court to be potentially, the biggest threat to liberty. These people are appointed, not elected, and may serve as long as they wish. All manner of evil can be visited upon us through their decisions. But there is a remedy built into our system.

The legislative branch is the most powerful of the three branches of the federal government. They can impeach and remove a sitting supreme court jurist if they so desire. And then there is the final power which exceeds anything in our government and that is "We The People". Via the Second Amendment and what was written in the Declaration of Independence, we hold the ultimate power and authority and can remove anyone in any office by force of arms if need be. The Founders weren't stupid.
Click to expand...
You already said this, but that's what the founding fathers envisioned, not what's actually possible now.
 
SouthernBoy

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UtahJarhead wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
ufcfanvt wrote:
Say what you want and think what you want, but PLEASE don't make this into a Non-Issue for Gun Owners.
The fact is that this that the Supreme Court, especially after a few more unfortunate appointments, can and will sell you and me up the river:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Don't trust them and NEVER let such a treaty be treated causally!
Click to expand...
I agree completely with this. What I wrote is about what was written by the Founders. Unfortunately, what actually takes place can and frequently is, something else.

Thomas Jefferson believed the supreme court to be potentially, the biggest threat to liberty. These people are appointed, not elected, and may serve as long as they wish. All manner of evil can be visited upon us through their decisions. But there is a remedy built into our system.

The legislative branch is the most powerful of the three branches of the federal government. They can impeach and remove a sitting supreme court jurist if they so desire. And then there is the final power which exceeds anything in our government and that is "We The People". Via the Second Amendment and what was written in the Declaration of Independence, we hold the ultimate power and authority and can remove anyone in any office by force of arms if need be. The Founders weren't stupid.
Click to expand...
You already said this, but that's what the founding fathers envisioned, not what's actually possible now.
Click to expand...
Two-hundred thirty+ years does not change what was written and what was true then is just as true today. The problem arises under the umbrella of the concept of a "living document" and generations of Americans who have come to believe this nonsense. Add their apathy to the pot of those who want nothing more than to fundamentally change this nation and one can easily see how we have lost so much.

It is possible and it is, as Jefferson wrote, "it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security" when "a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism".
 
jbone

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Here'san alarming number of anti-American's in my book. And the very ones that would move towards a Treaty, disarming, part of the socialist agenda right?

"http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/59933/

PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives"
 
ixtow

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I love the phrase "Constutional Scholars say..."

So, a bunch of STUDENTS who are 45+ years old and still trying to figure out a very simple document that isn't but a few pages long in modern terms, are being deferred to as some kind of credible source?

Maybe I should buy a Monkey and name it Steven Hawking... No, wait...
 
R

rpyne

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ixtow wrote:
I love the phrase "Constutional Scholars say..."

So, a bunch of STUDENTS who are 45+ years old and still trying to figure out a very simple document that isn't but a few pages long in modern terms, are being deferred to as some kind of credible source?

Maybe I should buy a Monkey and name it Steven Hawking... No, wait...
Click to expand...
No, "Constitutional Scholars" are usually those who have made a lifetime of studying and teaching constitutional law. Many of them are Constitutional Conservatives who strongly support the premise that the Constitution means what is says and is not a "living document".
 
4

4armed Architect

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rpyne wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:
It's not possible as laws currently stand. Treaties the US agree to are still subject to our National Constitution and if certain portions of a treaty are contrary to the Constitution, then it's not legal to enforce it.
Click to expand...
Actually, most constitutional scholars will tell you that treaties override our constitution.
Click to expand...
But my inalienable rights override both of them. Constitution doesn't "give" them to me and can't, by any interpretation, give them away. I reserve that inalienable right to myself.
 
ixtow

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rpyne wrote:
ixtow wrote:
I love the phrase "Constutional Scholars say..."

So, a bunch of STUDENTS who are 45+ years old and still trying to figure out a very simple document that isn't but a few pages long in modern terms, are being deferred to as some kind of credible source?

Maybe I should buy a Monkey and name it Steven Hawking... No, wait...
Click to expand...
No, "Constitutional Scholars" are usually those who have made a lifetime of studying and teaching constitutional law. Many of them are Constitutional Conservatives who strongly support the premise that the Constitution means what is says and is not a "living document".
Click to expand...
I've never heard anyone who called him or herself a constitutional scholar have anything to say except that it means the opposite of what is written.

The more I see how different things are in the rest of the country, the more convinced I become that Florida has to be the most sick and corrupt place on earth.
 
buster81

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ixtow wrote:
rpyne wrote:
ixtow wrote:
I love the phrase "Constutional Scholars say..."

So, a bunch of STUDENTS who are 45+ years old and still trying to figure out a very simple document that isn't but a few pages long in modern terms, are being deferred to as some kind of credible source?

Maybe I should buy a Monkey and name it Steven Hawking... No, wait...
Click to expand...
No, "Constitutional Scholars" are usually those who have made a lifetime of studying and teaching constitutional law. Many of them are Constitutional Conservatives who strongly support the premise that the Constitution means what is says and is not a "living document".
Click to expand...
I've never heard anyone who called him or herself a constitutional scholar have anything to say except that it means the opposite of what is written.

The more I see how different things are in the rest of the country, the more convinced I become that Florida has to be the most sick and corrupt place on earth.
Click to expand...
Was there something in the treaty specific to Florida? I don't understand.
 
ixtow

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buster81 wrote:
ixtow wrote:
rpyne wrote:
ixtow wrote:
I love the phrase "Constutional Scholars say..."

So, a bunch of STUDENTS who are 45+ years old and still trying to figure out a very simple document that isn't but a few pages long in modern terms, are being deferred to as some kind of credible source?

Maybe I should buy a Monkey and name it Steven Hawking... No, wait...
Click to expand...
No, "Constitutional Scholars" are usually those who have made a lifetime of studying and teaching constitutional law. Many of them are Constitutional Conservatives who strongly support the premise that the Constitution means what is says and is not a "living document".
Click to expand...
I've never heard anyone who called him or herself a constitutional scholar have anything to say except that it means the opposite of what is written.

The more I see how different things are in the rest of the country, the more convinced I become that Florida has to be the most sick and corrupt place on earth.
Click to expand...
Was there something in the treaty specific to Florida? I don't understand.
Click to expand...
Just that things seem so much different in the rest of the country.
 
KansasMustang

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All the posturing, and all the treaties will NOT be able to override this ONE thing. Anybody know what that ONE thing is? It's called,,,wait for it,,, THE WILL OF the PEOPLE.
If I know myself, and trust me I know who I am! And if I know ANY of who YOU are. It won't matter one hill of beans on what these progressive fascists TRY to put on US, WE the People will NOT tolerate it.
Know who you are, know what you stand for. Seek the truth, (and yes I'm quoting Glenn Beck here) and stand for what you believe in. I believe it was Ben Franklin, i may have the Founder wrong but not the quote " We must all stand together, or surely we will hang separately. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN?
Our Founding Fathers all pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their honor in forming this Republic, I personally will not allow it to be MY generation that allows it to fail.
Keep your powder dry!
 
ixtow

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KansasMustang wrote:
Our Founding Fathers all pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their honor in forming this Republic, I personally will not allow it to be MY generation that allows it to fail.
Click to expand...
It's lonely up there, isn't it?

America is filled lazy, fat idiots who don't stand for anything except their Big Screens and the next half-dozen Big Macs they can shove down their pie holes. The one and only thing that tickles their fancy, is making their neighbors suffer. They're cowards and lairs and won't do anything but slander you when you make your stand and die.

America will end in their lethargy and arrogance, and they deserve to lose it.
 
KansasMustang

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ixtow wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
Our Founding Fathers all pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their honor in forming this Republic, I personally will not allow it to be MY generation that allows it to fail.
Click to expand...
It's lonely up there, isn't it?

America is filled lazy, fat idiots who don't stand for anything except their Big Screens and the next half-dozen Big Macs they can shove down their pie holes. The one and only thing that tickles their fancy, is making their neighbors suffer. They're cowards and lairs and won't do anything but slander you when you make your stand and die.

America will end in their lethargy and arrogance, and they deserve to lose it.
Click to expand...
Another of my favorite quotes is "Those who trade liberty for security will soon have neither.
Ixtow, you said "it's lonely up there" you mean,,up here doncha? I'm pretty certain I'm not alone, at least I know you're up here too.
 
rodbender

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KansasMustang wrote:
Ixtow, you said "it's lonely up there" you mean,,up here doncha? I'm pretty certain I'm not alone, at least I know you're up here too.
Click to expand...
Mustang, There are a lot of us ona mountain of freedom. The real problem is, we are all on our own mountain and don't know how to make it all one mountain range. Someday......maybe.
 
SouthernBoy

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KansasMustang wrote:
ixtow wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
Our Founding Fathers all pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their honor in forming this Republic, I personally will not allow it to be MY generation that allows it to fail.
Click to expand...
It's lonely up there, isn't it?

America is filled lazy, fat idiots who don't stand for anything except their Big Screens and the next half-dozen Big Macs they can shove down their pie holes. The one and only thing that tickles their fancy, is making their neighbors suffer. They're cowards and lairs and won't do anything but slander you when you make your stand and die.

America will end in their lethargy and arrogance, and they deserve to lose it.
Click to expand...
Another of my favorite quotes is "Those who trade liberty for security will soon have neither.
Ixtow, you said "it's lonely up there" you mean,,up here doncha? I'm pretty certain I'm not alone, at least I know you're up here too.
Click to expand...
The quote to which you referred was uttered by Benjamin Franklin in 1759. Here it is;

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."
 
SouthernBoy

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ixtow wrote:
KansasMustang wrote:
Our Founding Fathers all pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their honor in forming this Republic, I personally will not allow it to be MY generation that allows it to fail.
Click to expand...
It's lonely up there, isn't it?

America is filled lazy, fat idiots who don't stand for anything except their Big Screens and the next half-dozen Big Macs they can shove down their pie holes. The one and only thing that tickles their fancy, is making their neighbors suffer. They're cowards and lairs and won't do anything but slander you when you make your stand and die.

America will end in their lethargy and arrogance, and they deserve to lose it.
Click to expand...
Nice thoughts about your fellow Americans.

Many don't fit that mold, thank God. There will be rats that will flee the onslaught for certain. But there will also be guard dogs who will repel foreign insolence and domestic arrogance. I still have faith in my fellow citizens. Let's hope they do not do as you prophesy.
 
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