Flint City Police Encounter

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Just gotta be careful. I would think the watch would be hard to aim. How often is your watch pointed in the right direction without being obvious in your movements. Though it would be very fun to get some covert still shots

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mikestilly wrote:

Just gotta be careful. I would think the watch would be hard to aim. How often is your watch pointed in the right direction without being obvious in your movements. Though it would be very fun to get some covert still shots

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Especially if your hands are cuffed behind your back.

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You should have PMed that.

...Cops read this forum right?
Do we want them to know what recorders we're trying to hide?

Discretion is the better part of valor. Even while OCing :-D

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

You should have PMed that.

...Cops read this forum right?
Do we want them to know what recorders we're trying to hide?

Discretion is the better part of valor. Even while OCing :-D

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I know they're recording. They should assume everyone out there is able to record their actions, too.

If they didn't learn that tidbit from the shooting in the BART train shooting in San Francisco area that happened some time back, then they're thicker than I thought.

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My only point is sometimes they will want to confiscate your recording equipment.

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If this is a tattoo shop, ie. a business, don't they have a security camera with sound covering the main area?

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for a security camera, as far as a business, recording 'audio' would be illegal.

I was recently involved in the new camera system project at the library I work at, and this is what they advised us of.

I believe you need to expressly be 'part of the conversation' in order to record audio.


ETA: I know this is completely unrelated to this thread, but I don't really want to make a new thread just for this: God I f***ing hate antis.

/rant

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

for a security camera, as far as a business, recording 'audio' would be illegal.

I was recently involved in the new camera system project at the library I work at, and this is what they advised us of.

I believe you need to expressly be 'part of the conversation' in order to record audio.


ETA: I know this is completely unrelated to this thread, but I don't really want to make a new thread just for this: God I f***ing hate antis.

/rant

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I understand what you're trying to say but a private business owner or property owner can record audio and video on their own properties without the parties consent. Good examples are jewelry shops, Casinos, Banks, and most places that deal in cash.

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I don't know about the audio part, but many moons ago, a company I worked for had security cameras installed inside the business and the owner was required by law to inform all employees of the intallation and the locations of the cameras.

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hmm maybe that's the out but there are many places that I know record everything especially the casinos and I don't recall seeing any signs there.

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

for a security camera, as far as a business, recording 'audio' would be illegal.

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This is untrue.

All you need are signs posted stating that audio and video is being captured on the premises, and that entering the premises implies consent to be recorded.

LOTS of places have signs like these.

There may be other ways to legally record, too.

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Evil Creamsicle wrote:

You should have PMed that.

...Cops read this forum right?
Do we want them to know what recorders we're trying to hide?

Discretion is the better part of valor. Even while OCing :-D

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I agree. The links should be removed for the protection of those who may need use of such devices. LEO's in the Lansing and BC incidents proved that they aren't above bending the law. No need to make it easier for them to violate a persons rights.

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Maybe I got different info because a library is technically an institution of local government... although so are the police.



So... I dunno wtf the camera guys were talking about then.

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I removed my links but scooter quoted them. Have no control there.

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mikestilly wrote:

I removed my links but scooter quoted them. Have no control there.

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Thanks mike I'll PM him. Maybe that will work.

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i don't have a cite, but am pretty sure that in michigan you can record video/audio people in public places without consent. That is why police don't have to ask your permission to record your conversation, or the poperatzi doesn't need consent to take photos of brittany spears on her way to her limo.

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This was a letter I sent to My councilman in Dec 2009 As the letter states he forwarded it to the city attorney. Feel free to contact anyone you wish and give this a friendly push. While I have yet to head back from them I will follow up today.


Flint City Attorney Peter Bade 810 766 7146


Dear Mr. LaVere:

I have forwarded your email message to Flint City Attorney Peter Bade. Mr. Bade tells me that he has assigned an Assistant City Attorney to review this matter. We will keep you posted. Thanks for contacting me.

Dale Weighill
7th Ward - Flint City Council

>>> "Gordon LaVere" /12/10 05:04PM >>>

Follow up letter to the 12/2/2009 email sent .


Subject: City of Flint & MI Firearms Preemption Laws Conflict
Body:


Looking trhough the city ordance I came accross this ordance. #31-20 Under the 1990 state preemption law, this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm and ammunition sales/distribution and is misleading to the people of Flint and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this unlawful ordinance within 90 days. Failure to amend these ordinances would be considered an act of malfeasance, as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the City Flint.
Thank You for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Gordon LaVere



REFERENCE INFORMATION:

§ 31-20 FIREARMS - HANDLING, FIRING AND THE LIKE.
(a) Definition. The word FIREARM except as otherwise specifically defined in this code, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, except an officer in the discharge of his duties, to draw, flourish or fire any firearm in the City, except as authorized by law; provided, that nothing contained herein shall prohibit the drawing, flourishing or firing of air guns or firearms in duly licensed firing ranges or shooting galleries.

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to transport or to have in possession in or upon any vehicle a firearm unless the same is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. It shall be unlawful to carry a firearm on any public street or in any public place unless it is unloaded and in a case, except as authorized by law.

(d) Any person observed doing any of those things prohibited by this section shall be required to represent to any peace officer, forthwith, evidence of authorization that the person is exempt from the provisions thereof.

(Ord. 146, passed 10-5-15; Am. Ord. 1846, passed 9-9-65; Am. Ord. 2161, passed 9-29-69)



FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)
Act 319 of 1990

123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

Sec. 2.

A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

History: 1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991


EMERGENCY POWERS OF GOVERNOR (EXCERPT)
Act 302 of 1945

10.31 Proclamation of state of emergency; promulgation of orders, rules, and regulations; seizure of firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.

Sec. 1.

(1) During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, when public safety is imperiled, either upon application of the mayor of a city, sheriff of a county, or the commissioner of the Michigan state police or upon his or her own volition, the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved. After making the proclamation or declaration, the governor may promulgate reasonable orders, rules, and regulations as he or she considers necessary to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control. Those orders, rules, and regulations may include, but are not limited to, providing for the control of traffic, including public and private transportation, within the area or any section of the area; designation of specific zones within the area in which occupancy and use of buildings and ingress and egress of persons and vehicles may be prohibited or regulated; control of places of amusement and assembly and of persons on public streets and thoroughfares; establishment of a curfew; control of the sale, transportation, and use of alcoholic beverages and liquors; and control of the storage, use, and transportation of explosives or inflammable materials or liquids deemed to be dangerous to public safety.

(2) The orders, rules, and regulations promulgated under subsection (1) are effective from the date and in the manner prescribed in the orders, rules, and regulations and shall be made public as provided in the orders, rules, and regulations. The orders, rules, and regulations may be amended, modified, or rescinded, in the manner in which they were promulgated, from time to time by the governor during the pendency of the emergency, but shall cease to be in effect upon declaration by the governor that the emergency no longer exists.

(3) Subsection (1) does not authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of lawfully possessed firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.

History: 1945, Act 302, Imd. Eff. May 25, 1945 ;-- CL 1948, 10.31 ;-- Am. 2006, Act 546, Imd. Eff. Dec. 29, 2006


THE MICHIGAN APPEALS COURT CONCLUDED:
April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 MCGRO vs Ferndale.

In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

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We need to think about deviced that can transmit your encounter with police liveto a remote location where it is recorded (through cellular network, for example). This way, by the time they search and find device, youalready have part of encounter recordedremotely and out of their reach. Also, ifthey search you and find this device, you can tellthem that confiscating it at this point could make situation worse for them since part of the conversation is already recorded and it will be harder for them to hide the fact that they took your property from you.

Are there such devices available?

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

My only point is sometimes they will want to confiscate your recording equipment.

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Call your home answering machine. Set machine to answer on first ring.