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Utah Valley University threatens open carrying student with arrest - state agenices back student!

J

JoeSparky

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rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...

In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
 
ixtow

ixtow

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JoeSparky wrote:
rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...
In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
Click to expand...
Also, he hasn't disrupted anything... Plenty of students have told him they like it... I don't see any grounds for it.
 
R

rpyne

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ixtow wrote:
JoeSparky wrote:
rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...
In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
Click to expand...
Also, he hasn't disrupted anything... Plenty of students have told him they like it... I don't see any grounds for it.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.
 
kwikrnu

kwikrnu

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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.
Click to expand...
A serious student isn't going to take a chance on getting arrested when he has class, studying, and tests to worry about. If he failed out itmay cost him time, grade point average, repayment of loans or grants, etc.
 
ixtow

ixtow

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kwikrnu wrote:
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.
Click to expand...
A serious student isn't going to take a chance on getting arrested when he has class, studying, and tests to worry about. If he failed out itmay cost him time, grade point average, repayment of loans or grants, etc.
Click to expand...
Let the lawsuit that comes after the false arrest pay for that....
 
C

cloudcroft

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Sounds like this would be a good test case: Do it again, get cited/arrested and gun confiscated as the sorry police chief Brewer says will be done, then sue the police for false arrest/citing. When the police end up costing the city big bucks whe they lose the lawsuit, maybe the mayor (or whoever) will put them in their place. Better yet, make the chiefpersonally pay the lawsuit award.

The test case "subject" will then have plenty of money to do whatever he/she wants...even go to a school somewhere else in Utah that isn't as retarded as this one insists on being.

I think we can expect these kinds of incidentsto happen fairly frequently, until OC is an established norm...very much like the Civil Rightsprotests of the 1960s where lots of people got arrested in the beginning of that movement, but later on, they got what they were protesting for.

-- John D.

P.S. Braveheart23C, my being an "out-of-stater," I hope you don't mind me butting in...we're all in this together.
 
Grapeshot

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rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...
So he was disrupting the operation of the school by hanging posters while what - carrying a legal, non-restricted tool?

How is this "encouraging or creating" a substantial disruption?

At least you don't have any "going to the terror of the public" laws for them to reach for.

Yata hey
 
Rottie

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Might I offer my opinion as to how the Major can protest this. He is obviously going to carry concealed for the time being. I suggest that he carry his firearm concealed but also prominently and very visiblywear an empty holster. They cannot cite you for displaying an empty holster while maintaining the actual gun concealed.Get as many others who will support you to do the same. Perhaps this will send the message through UVU that you have support. I would extend a personal invitation to everyone you know at UVU to wear an empty holster until the matter is resolved.

As for contacting the university etc.I have done so and encourage all to do the same. We cannot just participate in the opinion poll on KSL regarding this topic and feel as though our voices have been heard. I shake my fist with you Braveheart23C:cuss:
 
TFred

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Grapeshot wrote:
rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...
So he was disrupting the operation of the school by hanging posters while what - carrying a legal, non-restricted tool?

How is this "encouraging or creating" a substantial disruption?

At least you don't have any "going to the terror of the public" laws for them to reach for.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
Not only "was he disrupting?", but was disrupting his purpose? See bold above...

TFred
 
ixtow

ixtow

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TFred wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
rpyne wrote:
The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
(1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
(2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
(3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
Click to expand...
So he was disrupting the operation of the school by hanging posters while what - carrying a legal, non-restricted tool?

How is this "encouraging or creating" a substantial disruption?

At least you don't have any "going to the terror of the public" laws for them to reach for.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
Not only "was he disrupting?", but was disrupting his purpose? See bold above...

TFred
Click to expand...
From the video, it seems it was the officer who was guilty of this.
 
ixtow

ixtow

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kwikrnu wrote:
He ought to wear a shirt that says, "I'm Armed" and has an arrow pointing to his concealed handgun.
Click to expand...
Hehehe! I like that one too!

But, in some states, case law construes brandishing as informing others you have it concealed. Florida is one of these states. Telling someone that you have a gun is a Felony, just like printing. It is also considered to be assault, terroristic threat, etc.

Sorry, no statute to cite, it's case law.... And again, highly variable upon what part of the state you are in.

Now... Could we OC Squirt Guns in holsters? Obnoxious bright ornage... er... hehehe, no dice kwik? ;-)
 
M

Mike

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ixtow wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
He ought to wear a shirt that says, "I'm Armed" and has an arrow pointing to his concealed handgun.
Click to expand...
Hehehe! I like that one too!

But, in some states, case law construes brandishing as informing others you have it concealed. Florida is one of these states. Telling someone that you have a gun is a Felony, just like printing. It is also considered to be assault, terroristic threat, etc.

Sorry, no statute to cite, it's case law....
Click to expand...
Um, OK, so cite to case law - never heard of this one . . .
 
ixtow

ixtow

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Mike wrote:
ixtow wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
He ought to wear a shirt that says, "I'm Armed" and has an arrow pointing to his concealed handgun.
Click to expand...
Hehehe! I like that one too!

But, in some states, case law construes brandishing as informing others you have it concealed. Florida is one of these states. Telling someone that you have a gun is a Felony, just like printing. It is also considered to be assault, terroristic threat, etc.

Sorry, no statute to cite, it's case law....
Click to expand...
Um, OK, so cite to case law - never heard of this one . . .
Click to expand...
I'd love to, but I was in the courtroom many years ago watching this stuff happen. I really didn't keep any records to remind me. I'm sure someone who cares enough can dig it up. It isn't uncommon enough to be considered strange. At least not here...
 
G

Garp

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OK guys..... A couple of years ago a shopping mall asked a nursing mother to leave.. the next day 300 suckling babes were on site in protest!

IM down for a open holster day at least, maybe at a game or other event or something.
 
Grapeshot

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ixtow wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
He ought to wear a shirt that says, "I'm Armed" and has an arrow pointing to his concealed handgun.
Click to expand...
Hehehe! I like that one too!

But, in some states, case law construes brandishing as informing others you have it concealed. Florida is one of these states. Telling someone that you have a gun is a Felony, just like printing. It is also considered to be assault, terroristic threat, etc.
Click to expand...
OK, so how about someone wears such a T-shirt w/o carrying - then what?

Yata hey
 
DanM

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NightOwl wrote:
Follow through to the youtube of it, the guy is getting some pretty negative comments posted against him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk
Click to expand...

I don't have an exactly complimentary comment for this guy either:

This guycame off asvery uncertain andnot assertive on hisrights. Heknelt downat the threat of being charged with a bogus charge.

Rule #1: DO NOT OPEN CARRYUNLESS YOU INTEND TO ASSERT YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO! REALIZE THAT THE POLICE MAY CHARGE YOU WITH ANYTHING, SO DO NOT OPEN CARRY UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO STAND UP, TAKE A BOGUS CHARGE, AND FIGHT IT!

This guy should have NEVER open carried at the university. He's weak and let the police punk him. Do us all a favor, guy. Do not open carry ever again unless you intend to stand fast to your right to do so and be willing to take a bogus charge and fight it.

If you are unsure aboutwhether or not you will stand fast to asserting your open carry rights, DO NOT OPEN CARRY!
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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DanM wrote:
NightOwl wrote:
Follow through to the youtube of it, the guy is getting some pretty negative comments posted against him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk
Click to expand...
I don't have an exactly complimentary comment for this guy either:

This guycame off asvery uncertain andnot assertive on hisrights. Heknelt downat the threat of being charged with a bogus charge.

Rule #1: DO NOT OPEN CARRYUNLESS YOU INTEND TO ASSERT YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO! REALIZE THAT THE POLICE MAY CHARGE YOU WITH ANYTHING, SO DO NOT OPEN CARRY UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO STAND UP, TAKE A BOGUS CHARGE, AND FIGHT IT!

This guy should have NEVER open carried at the university. He's weak and let the police punk him. Do us all a favor, guy. Do not open carry ever again unless you intend to stand fast to your right to do so and be willing to take a bogus charge and fight it.

If you are unsure aboutwhether or not you will stand fast to asserting your open carry rights, DO NOT OPEN CARRY!
Click to expand...
Just a little bit stronger than I would state it :? and much more so than many (Mike & John included) have advocated/recommended. :exclaim:

The often suggested response is to not fight your battles on the street, but to document everything and to take appropriate action afterward.

Not everybody is willing nor is it necessarily advisable to risking arrest and then have to fight to protect their freedom including RKBA. It is better to fight from a position of strength and some safety rather than have an open field skirmish. ymmv

Is there a time and place to stand up and be counted? Definitely, but don't see this as having missed some great opportunity.

Yata hey
 
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