Did anyone ever learn muzzle control?
Thread: Tanner Gun Show Shooting
All I can say isWOW and thank you Lord!:shock:
Went to the gun show today and just like the title says some guy was shot about 20 ft from me. There was about 50 peopleright inthe area it happenedand I didn't see how it happened but when I turned to my left there was someone laying on the ground and security was running over to him. It was a sureal sight. Very movie like.
I was quite amazed that nobody freaked out. There was one kid maybe in his mid 20'sthathad hishands in the air and was freaking out but there was no mob or peoplebeing run over. It took everyone including myself a second or two to figure out what was going on. Once everyone realized it was a gun everyone cleared the area (except the sick few that were curious to see the destruction). Security and the 2 cops that were there were all over the seen and I think handled it very well.
The only thing is the guy on the pa was an idiot. Most people in the back of the building didn't know someone was hurt or what was going on until this moron announces "please move to the back of the building and give this poor guy some space" Thats when a few people got un easy.
After a 1/4 of the building was taped off; don't understand why:quirkyI was able to leave. The police were telling everyone to exit using the frontright doors and the police up front were getting upset and telling everyone to use back left exit.
Did anyone ever learn muzzle control?
Man shot at Tanner Gun Show
Adams County sheriff's deputies responded to the Tanner Gun Show at the Denver Merchandise Mart at Interstate 25 and 58th Ave. around 2 p.m. Saturday after a man was shot in the upper torso. The victim was transported to Denver Health Medical Center, where his condition was unknown.
Saturday afternoon investigators were interviewing "numerous witnesses," the gun's vendor and the "person holding the gun at the time of the discharge," said Sgt. Candi Baker with the Adams County Sheriff's Office.
"They were just looking at a gun," Baker said.
Russ Huntley , who was inside the gun show Saturday, told 9News he had heard someone had been shot in the shoulder and "there was blood all over the floor."
The Tanner Gun Show bills itself as the state's largest gun show with 700 tables displaying guns, knives, ammunition, reloading equipment, military surplus and hunting and fishing gear. The show, which drew fire in 1999 when three guns bought there were used by Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris in the Columbine High School shooting, has run in some form since 1964.
It's not the first time there's been a shooting at or around the show. In March 2008 a 64-year-old Littleton man accidentally shot himself in the stomach with .38-caliber handgun in the mart's parking lot.
The show's website says it is illegal to have loaded guns inside the show. Security personnel disable most guns, looping zip ties through gun chambers.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" Patrick Henry (ironically a slave owner), 1775 Mar 23.
[sarcasm]Who needs muzzle control--it's empty!!!!![/sarcasm]
Considering it happened later in the day. Hundreds of people had handled all the guns on the tables.
I really think some bunghole put a round in there on purpose.
Very lucky someone didn't get killed.
And what stupid jerk would pick up a gun and fire it without checking the chamber?
All guns are always loaded.
Glad I was already gone.
That's the 2nd Tanner show I've been at, in the same location where a round has gone off in less than 2 years.
I publicly ripped into my then 20yo brother over this when I took him to Tannerfor the first time. He picked a gun up off a tableand I said, "Take your finger off that trigger."
He replied, "It's not loaded."
"How doYOU know? Did youCHECK the chamber?"
"Well, why would they have a loaded gun here?"
"Look at this table! How many guns do you see? How many do they have to check? What are the odds that one of themMIGHT have a round by accident? What if that's the one you pick up? Are you willing to take that chance?"
He's quite a bit younger than me and our father wasn't really shooting when that brother was growing up. All the more reason I make an effort to take my nephews shooting and learn gun safety.
Private gun range, and gov demands heads to role for an accident.
Gov gun show and it is just a mistake, no problem move along.
Did you demand your money back?
I'm not following you. Are you saying that Rampart was private and Tanner is government owned?
Well the previous post said largest state gun show.....
But this should be a plain and simple ND at best, but you have to
look at premeditation also.
Any reports on what the bullet type was?
I don't want them in my gun if they don't do the job.
scubabeme wrote:Everyone. That's precisely why someone got shot.[sarcasm]Who needs muzzle control--it's empty!!!!![/sarcasm]
Don't you know that the "unloaded" gun is the most dangerous?
Pat- it appears that you might have missed that my comment was meant to be sarcastic. If that is the case, trust me, my point really is the same as yours. If not, I don't mean to offend, so please don't take offense by my pointing it out--and you are 110% correct either way!!
It's a shame this happened. Naturally, bullets do not just accidentally fall into the firing chambers of weapons, so one of three people put it there on purpose:
1. The vendor (highly unlikely, given the nature of the business, the event, the potential liability, and the fact thatcheap snap caps are available for just about every round under the sun).
2. The current potential buyer.
3. A previous potential buyer.
4.Some passerby, almost certainly with either malicious intent, or possibly with a major loose screw.
If it was actually the vendor or the current potential buyer, then let the legal system exact its justice. However,I fear the powers that be will either attempt to hold the vendor, the person handline the weapon, or the gun show organizer responsible, regardless of whether they're actually responsible or not. The sad thing is that both are at least partially responsible, as the vendor should have checked to see if it was unloaded before he passed it to the potential buyer, and the potential buyer should have verified it was unloaded before he accepted it. It's a major foul for the vendor, as he should know the weapons he's selling, and a minor one for the buyer as he may not have known the weapon he was looking to buy.
But I suspect this may very well have been done in some sort of sick, twisted response to the CSU gun banning. I'm hoping the casing contains a fingerprint and theythe perp for attempted murder! If it turns out to be the vendor or potential buyer, it's just simple but stupid negligence.
The question is: How to prevent this without crippling gun shows?
1. Band (plastic cable tie) all firearms at gun shows. Allow one firearm at a time per vendor to be unbanded for the purpose of examining it, then reband it before placing it back on the display.
Problem 1: This solves nothing, as many, if not most firearms, can be loaded while the trigger is banded.
Problem 2: There's nothing to prevent some nut from clipping the band, loading the firearm, and replacing the band.
2. Require all vendors to keep all firearms beneath wood and plexiglass display cases, allowing one gun at a time per vendor to be shown.
Problem 1: Adds expense.
Problem 2: There's still no barrier to prevent someone from reaching around the counter and loading a firearm.
3. Require all vendors and potential customers to sign a very simple waiver which reads:
WARNING: Firearms can be deadly. To avoid potential harm, you must read and sign the following before you will be allowed entry into this gun show:
I agree that I will NOT handle any firearm that has not been handed to me personally by its vendor.
I agree to hold all vendors accountable for ensuring the firearm is unloaded, with a joint visual inspection ofthe empty chamber,before they present it to me.
I agree to visually ensure the firearm is unloaded before I handle the firearm.
I agree to ensure the firearm is unloaded, with a joint visual inspection ofthe empty chamber, before presenting it back to the vendor.
Name (printed): _______________________
Name (signed): ________________________
I'm sure most vendors already have to sign a much more thorough waiver.
Thanks since 9.
scubabeme wrote:Obviously he has trouble comprehending the aspect. I would've figured anyone could pick up on the sarcasm of your post even without the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.Pat- it appears that you might have missed that my comment was meant to be sarcastic. If that is the case, trust me, my point really is the same as yours. If not, I don't mean to offend, so please don't take offense by my pointing it out--and you are 110% correct either way!!
1. Band (plastic cable tie) all firearms at gun shows.
You know what they say, idiot-proof something and the world will invent a better idiot. Tanner actually does require inspection and banding of attendees' firearms, TMK. HOWEVER,I went there once with a .357 I wanted to find a holster and gun rug for. I had it unloaded and trigger locked in a backpack. I showed it to the sweet old lady in charge of cable tying the guns people were bringing in. She looked at it, saw the trigger lock, and said in a sweet voice, "Now, you just be sure to keep that lock on there."
I refrained from telling her that I had no intention of keeping the lock on while I tried it out in holsters, etc. but would keep it locked in between and was actually quite disappointed in her for not insisting on putting a cable tie on just for safety's sake.
Slackware, I believe that text meant "largest in the state" not "largest run by the state". I don't put much stock in the phrasing media working on a deadline uses and am more prone to be irritated at them for misreporting than how law enforcement is reacting.
Don't be disappointment in the sweet old lady for not making you zip tie it. The truth is, in a free society, you are individually responsible for your weapon and the damage it does. She knows that. She says to herself; this may went out of his way to secure his firearm so I will respect that and understand that as an individual, he has it under control.
As soon as they started banding weapons under patrons' control, I ceased being an "individual."I prefer measures beenforced equally. Why should I get special treatment because I'm babyfaced and have a lock? I'm quite certain the instructions given to her didn't include, "If they look okay, don't worry about checking their bags or banding their guns but if they're scruffy give them the 3rd degree. 'Cause you know clean cut young people never have ND's when you admit them to your paid event."
It does not matter who put the bullet in the gun the person pulling the trigger was responsible. If Sarah Brady herself had put it in the gun I would still feel the same way so quit with trying to pass the buck on this deal. Some one put a bullet in a gun some time either before or during the show and an idiot got hold of it, failed to verify that it was empty, failed to use proper muzzle control and pulled the trigger. Even if some nut job had gone around putting bullets in every gun at the show by cutting the ties then replacing them or reaching around the counter to sneak the gun it was still an idiot that pulled the trigger.
How many times on this forum has there been discussions about negligent discharges instead of accidental ones. This was a prime example of a negligent discharge as he broke about as many safe handling rules as he could. You can blame the little lady at the front desk, the vendor, the show operator and Sarah Brady but none of those pulled the trigger. Until we can get everyone to follow the rules of safety then there is going to be perfect examples of problems for the antis to use. This was one of them.
mahkagari wrote:cool story broAs soon as they started banding weapons under patrons' control, I ceased being an "individual."I prefer measures beenforced equally. Why should I get special treatment because I'm babyfaced and have a lock? I'm quite certain the instructions given to her didn't include, "If they look okay, don't worry about checking their bags or banding their guns but if they're scruffy give them the 3rd degree. 'Cause you know clean cut young people never have ND's when you admit them to your paid event."
PT111 wrote:Hear! Hear!How many times on this forum has there been discussions about negligent discharges instead of accidental ones. This was a prime example of a negligent discharge as he broke about as many safe handling rules as he could. You can blame the little lady at the front desk, the vendor, the show operator and Sarah Brady but none of those pulled the trigger. Until we can get everyone to follow the rules of safety then there is going to be perfect examples of problems for the antis to use. This was one of them.