Madison PD detains and cites OCers tonight.

How Can One Be Cited If No I.D.?

Good going guys! Wish I had been there. I don't know how I would have reacted but I would like to think I would have not provided I.D. Either way I thank you guys for getting out there and exercising your rights.

Anyway, how can anyone be cited if they never provided I.D.? The two that did not provide I.D. were cited but if they never provided I.D. who are the citations written to?

Speculation, I was not there.

After detention arrest they were searched and their identification documents seized.

Spartacus said:

COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Attacking our own is VERY counter-productive.

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Not once did I say I wouldn't show ID. I said I'd carry anywhere that it was legal and didn't want to get a permit.

Once again, no ID was produced by me until after the 1st of our party was cuffed and in the back of a squad car.

Doug Huffman said:

After detention arrest they were searched and their identification documents seized.

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Good guess.

Paul pm sent .

springfield 1911 said:

Paul pm sent .

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Thanks!

All I have to say is springfield 1911 is an honorable man and a good guy on top of it.

If I was able to spawn a sockpuppet then y'all would be seeing Bush-43 sayin' "Miss me yet?" I can imagine no one more mean spirited than our sometimes correspondent.

Mr. Malarkey did a pretty good job though.

Doug Huffman said:

If I was able to spawn a sockpuppet then y'all would be seeing Bush-43 sayin' "Miss me yet?" I can imagine no one more mean spirited than our sometimes correspondent.

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I just consider the source. He likes being a contrarian and likes making up conflict where there is none.

He is jealous that I am seemingly perfect so then he jumps at the slightest chink in my armor to bring his self esteem up.

I don't mind giving him some glimmer of hope that his life has the possibility of getting better.

Wow, this happens right in Nik's backyard? You can't tell me that the cops there have NOT been exposed to open carry at all. I am anxiously awaiting the outcome...

Nothing reported on the Wisconsin State Journal yet... I would've thought the anti-2nd libs at that media outlet would have loved to jump on this story. Keep us posted!

Was the media in any way present, or will its reports be from shoulder-surfing the cops?

No mention http://www.cityofmadison.com/incidentreports/incidentList.cfm?a=71

Another Reason Not To Carry I.D.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Good guess.

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When I O.C. I have no I.D. on my person. Once again thanks goes out to all of you! Looking forward to a win in court on this one.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Not once did I say I wouldn't show ID. I said I'd carry anywhere that it was legal and didn't want to get a permit.

Once again, no ID was produced by me until after the 1st of our party was cuffed and in the back of a squad car.

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Yeah, it sure is easy for those who weren't even there to armchair quarterback it, isn't it? Amazingly pointless when all of the facts aren't known yet either.

Until you're in a situation no one knows what they would do. Obviously if one person was already cuffed and stuffed, a united front wasn't making any difference.

Comments and discussion like "maybe next time try this" or "this worked for me in the past"are constructive and help everyone.

Comments that are little more than personal attacks only tear down and don't help anyone.

Besides, there's a difference between being in a difficult situation and trying to decide the best course of action with respect to ones rights and knowing ones rights and actively promoting the infringement of those rights. Seems the latter is far worse to me.

rcawdor57 said:

When I O.C. I have no I.D. on my person. Once again thanks goes out to all of you! Looking forward to a win in court on this one.

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Now see, THIS is a productive comment.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

I just consider the source. He likes being a contrarian and likes making up conflict where there is none.

He is jealous that I am seemingly perfect so then he jumps at the slightest chink in my armor to bring his self esteem up.

I don't mind giving him some glimmer of hope that his life has the possibility of getting better.

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COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack.

Good Job all around for you five. The interesting thing with this whole situation is this, without even thinking about it you 5 have now set a great example that will show everyone the difference between talking to LEO and not talking to LEO. This will truly be a great learning experience for everyone from start to finish.
I say Thank you to Paul, Frank, Mlutz and everyone else involved.
Carry On and Constitutional Carry Always!

The Don said:

Yeah, it sure is easy for those who weren't even there to armchair quarterback it, isn't it? Amazingly pointless when all of the facts aren't known yet either.

Until you're in a situation no one knows what they would do. Obviously if one person was already cuffed and stuffed, a united front wasn't making any difference.

Comments and discussion like "maybe next time try this" or "this worked for me in the past"are constructive and help everyone.

Comments that are little more than personal attacks only tear down and don't help anyone.

Besides, there's a difference between being in a difficult situation and trying to decide the best course of action with respect to ones rights and knowing ones rights and actively promoting the infringement of those rights. Seems the latter is far worse to me.

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I say next time they should do the same thing, do not produce ID as you have committed no crime. And...do not talk to Police. If they want to arrest you them let them arrest you. If you don't need the extra money then send it to me, I will buy some new toys with it! LOL

So. I went to the Hyper Link to MPD, http://www.cityofmadison.com/inciden...tList.cfm?a=71 and at the head of the page this appears.
"Incidents listed are selected by the Officer In Charge of each shift that may have significant public interest. Incidents listed are not inclusive of all incidents. Requests for information can be directed to the MPD Records Unit @ (608) 266-4075."
I do no think this incident will appear on the page, I do hope so!

I am thinking their supervisor has already told them how much they have fecked things up and they are working to keep this as quiet as possible, knowing that the tax payers are not going to be happy. We will have to see. It will be interesting to see if it makes it to the Blotter.

I already informed the 3 major TV stations and plus some reporters on my email and twitter list in Madison last night of the incident, but I'm sure with a skeletal weekend crew and the late hour none of the stations were in a position to follow the lead of any story that doesn't involve an explosion (literally, an explosion.) Be patient, they will pick up on this at some point.

Regarding whether people "caved in" by providing their ID I am of the opinion that it is one thing to say people have the right not to provide ID, but it doesn't follow from this that they have a duty to NOT provide ID. They have a choice whether to provide ID or not provide it. The problem is that the police believed that it wasn't a matter of choice, but rather an obligation. I don't see much benefit from telling people that they have an obligation to NOT provide ID. That is almost as dogmatic as the position that the police took. It is a choice left up to the individual and should be respected not only by the police, but by us as well.

The important thing is that each individual there had his rights violated, both those who provided ID and those who did not.

I listened to the audio last night and it's pretty clear that the police asked each OCer in turn whether they would provide ID, and they stated that any person they were unable to ID would be taken to jail.

I have already stated on this forum that if I am asked for ID by the police I will provide a business card, because that is what the police will provide to you when you ask for THEIR ID. If I am expected to accept a business card as identification, then I expect the same of the police.